Who ever you are, I think you are missing a point also. No one has said don't upgrade the product. Many people have stated that the product launched by the parent company during the last few years, did not far well in testing or racing and many of the newest components broke or they need more testing or what ever the term here that is deemed correct. Now, the items that failed in the field to some degree are going to be have Husky written on it. Some are just pointing out this fact. It would sound alot better if a higher success rate would have happened here with the product prototypes, but this is maybe the cycle in not owning your own product.. Has any of the upper brass left the parent company or the child company and gave some glossed over reason for leaving? Or has anyone been re-assigned internally? This would point to differences in the direction of a company or different philosophy of the product. Unless you are a VP or get to sit in on the meetings or get briefed by a mole, U will never know what the real idea is until it happens and you have 20\20 hindsight...And even then, lots of companies start down a path and change directions for various un-seen reasons that popup along the way...Maybe this parent company started this saga intending to build a competitive dirt bike with total success. Now, they have something but not a success. Maybe they are turning over the remains to their child company to finish. Sorry but this is a public forum, correct? Mostly grown men here? Every one here is not a sunshine pumper and thats good! The good side of a product will always stand out and does not need alot of input, but the downside is where the work must be identified and fixed... This is a very good write up from an american magazine ... Who designed this old thing? http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/135/1854/Motorcycle-Article/2008-Husqvarna-TC-450-Bike-Test.aspx
I think you have just summed up why sticking an engine with a crappy image into a bike with a postive image is a bad thing to do. Why did Husa/KTM marriage work? KTM pretty much let Husa do their own thing. Getting a product to market fast does not mean it is a good product. The BMW has been tested in the best proving ground...international off-road competitions. BMW had the best riders in the world and they still could not get the bike to perform as well as a Kawi. That is a fact. If David Knight can't get the BMW to perform then how the heck is a chump like me going to do it? At $10k I would expect more. In 2009 Husky had postive growth in a declining market. BMW dealers couldn't get the 450s off the floor. Image is everything...BMW needs to find a way to make a BMW that is worth $10k to Joe Rider. This has nothing to do with Husky. Just like KTM issues have nothing to do with Husaberg.
I can see the street legal buyer accepting this news better. Is it me or is there a push for more street legal products out of husky? In my area it's not a plus. The potential buyers want a closed circuit setup. Even the sport bike crowd is going closed circuit. Most owners I know now haul there bikes to the track. Might be different In the US.
I can certainly agree with thatAnd I would hope everyone can A 36/36 warranty on a dirtbike is unheard of - literally. As in I don't think it's ever been done before. Kudos to BMW for doing that. As for the price, at 7k it's still more than the competition because everyone has inventory sitting and everyone is slashing prices. U know who just bought an '08 KTM 450 for 5K out the door and could have got an '09 for sub 6k. Tough times for dealers, good times for people with money (not me...)
Lots of good points here on both sides and the why most rumor threads go. I think some of us fear Korean motors that have a less that sterling reputation by many stuffed in our beloved Husky a bad thing on several levels. The short of it might be in this economy and global market we will one see more of that. BMW has been a smart company and builds a reputation if top brand but uses out sorting and strong business practices to come to a product line. Some of us might be scared that approach will end in alienating loyal husky customers. It's all speculation at this point and IF there is a hybrid bike like we are speaking about it will stand on it's own merit. IF it does happen i hope the motor rules because what they are stuffing it into does IMHO. Should be interesting. As for the BMW sales up 9% and that being a reflection of a bad 08, i disagree. At least here in the US the economy took a huge crap the second our "leaders" told us they F'ed up and the stock market bubble was about to burst. 09 was probably the worst year on record for any motorcycle manufacturer yet BMW still survived and showed a slim profit while Harley, and many other companies face planted HARD. An amazing performance not to be belittled by any sales figures in 08. So at least there is a strong indication there are good, smart people at the helm at BMW. This will be good for Husky who always struggled to make ends meet. The deal is done, lets see what BMW can bring us and see if they know why we are loyal to the brand. Food for thought - Us husky loyalist have been shouting for a smoother, longer geared better EFI TE line. This BMW motor might be just that and lighter too.
100% agree. But it is not a proven winner yet. Unless BMW is looking to get out of the off-road competition as a brand and become an engine supplier to Husky then I think BMW needs to prove they can build a winner first. Not trashing BMW in any way. Just saying they need to build cred and brand image in off-road.
BMW has a great street market and piles of loyal customers there. I don't see they need to prove they can build a good bike. The new K1300 is fantastic and relativity inexpensive per performance.
Well you just said "good bike" which they can and do build. Bought husky to show them how to take that experience and build a good off road bike IMHO. Seems like good business sense.
I got all that....but they have yet to build that bike. Until they do there is no cred in off-road. So how does taking an engine with no cred and putting it into a bike that is building huge momentum help BMW build a good BMW off-road comp bike? BMW built Mini to better brand because they took the huge cred of BMW cars to build Mini. Can you imagine if Mini motors were put into BMWs to help build Mini name?
We are speculating over internet rumors. When / if the rumored bike gets here we will see. Might be great. I have a hard time seeing anyone at husky / BMW stuffing a turd in there for a motor or anything not better than what it is replacing. Sounds like it might be a great TE motor, smooth and long geared.
I only see positive things coming from a fusion of BMW and Husqvarna. BMW has won offroad races long before buying Husky, Dakar and ISDT come to mind. In just a few years they developed a modern offroad bike and they have won or podium'd major offroad events, WEC, Romaniacs, Roof of Africa,Erzberg and ISDE and a few other large European series. Dont know how one can argue with those results esp from a brand new bike. Maybe we should add a BMWG450X forum so our wealthy brothers in dirt can join us? Eric
Ok not speculating and staying as objective as the past facts have shown. Hope the co- op produces something cool and I am open minded. But lets not compare this to KTM/Husaberg. This is not that. Apples and Oranges.... but all fruit. KTM/Husaberg was not a "happy marriage" as some have stated. It was KTM cash making a shotgun wedding to jumpstart KTMs Racing Four Stroke (RFS) program as the LC4 boat anchor was not up to the task. Buy the SOHC berg and viola. The DOHC stuff always starts in the MX side cause thats where the $ is for units sold. Also traditionally from seeing the past moves from SOHC to DOHC and full monty race motors starts with the 250 engines. (the new Yamaha 450 thing is just different) KTM moved the jobs (Engineers too) and the plant making the bergs to Austria. This is a far cry of BMW moving the engine production and jobs (Engineers too) for the BMW to Taiwan's Kwang Yang Motor Co. Ltd. (KYMCO). Not saying they cant make a quality product.just saying KTM moved it to KTM.....BMW subbed it out.not the same. We saw this when Cagiva bought Husky in 88. Good bikes (rebadged Cagivas really). We saw the then new 4 stroke race in WEC in 2001 to try to make it to 2002 but nope and then flood in 2003, then saw first cool TE on floors in 2004. Saw same with newer TE take from 2007 WEC racing toon floors 2010. Stuff takes time. BMW has a large investement in the 450 motor. Natural to try to recoup that. Also with the bikes not selling that well (and not just for them...Knight actions did not help.) Lets see what we see. Lets not throw the baby out with the bath water. Lets not "He said -She said" bash. Its all good..... lets stay objective, open minded, and stop bashing. There...I am done
Very nice perspective Joe. As many of the posters have said it just isn't worth arguing over rumours. A couple of months back I got into a rock fight over on TT about DEI two strokes and improved technology in general. My problem wasn't the difference in opinion but the way a high profile employee of TT was belittling any pro tech poster. After a couple of days I realized I had gone way to far and had to step away for the sake of my own peace of mind and enjoyment of these types of discussions. It just isn't worth arguing about. The instant an argument becomes heated neither side is going to listen or fairly appraise the others thoughts. So lets try to enjoy all the different perspectives and have a little faith in Husqvarna not crating up a bunch of turds. JMHO, Walt
Good points Walt. After reading back on this thread there were a few time when things could have got out of hand...but they did not. Points were made ,both sides, and the discussion went on. I'm not sure I want to call it an argument, more of a good debate. It's all good and I do hope we all have faith in our brand.
