Help! Debris found in my engine - 610/630 clutch issues

Discussion in '610/630' started by Rough Rider, Feb 9, 2011.

  1. CJBROWN Husqvarna
    AA Class

    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    TE630
    Other Motorcycles:
    '15 R1200GS
    The term 'pissing in the wind for distance' comes to mind.

    All kinds of poor designs, or shall we say, 'could be better' designs come down the pike to consumers from all kinds of manufacturers in all industries. Not just motorcycles, but all kinds of consumer goods. Like my Samsung TV with a 'million' mirrors on a Texas Instruments chip that are known to drop out pixels over time - it's just the nature of the beast. I bought a $50 chip and replaced it myself - other people have paid hundreds of dollars for a repair, or scrapped them.

    For motorbikes, there are all kinds of problems, like BMW final drives that don't hold together, or KTM airboxes that let sand through, or Triumph Explorer heads that come apart, and on infinitem. I'm sure any number of us can come up with lots of great examples. The term, 'good enough' comes to mind. Good enough to get sold and past the warranty period - then it's the consumer's problem.

    IMO you will not get anywhere with them on this issue, whether they've fixed it or not, know about it or not, or whatever the case may be. All you will ever get are politically correct platitudes. Just ain't gonna happen.

    Sorry dude, but if it makes you feel better you can rant here all you want. :cheers:
    motranqui likes this.
  2. Flynn Husqvarna
    A Class

    Location:
    England
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    2001 610 SMS (broken)
    CJBrown, it seems only the Japanese that make almost flawless products. For instance their take on a rocker arm bearing:

    [IMG]

    Why bother with a bearing when you can have a smooth polished metal surface lubricated by oil? It's the beauty of the simple yet ingenious engineering that makes Japanese products the best.

    I found out about that after researching about rocker arm bearings for my 610. Just realised I am going off on a tangent here but that recent discovery about how the Japanese do rocker arms really impressed me.

    Anyway on the thread, just reading this after finishing the mammoth job of a cam chain and rocker arm bearing, I have the clutch cover off now and I am tempted to take a look but I have only basic tools and I have had the bike off the road for the past six weeks and it is my only transport so I think I will just ride it until I notice the washers causing problems and then take it off the road to do it when that happens.

    Is there a way of checking them without pulling the clutch?
  3. CJBROWN Husqvarna
    AA Class

    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    TE630
    Other Motorcycles:
    '15 R1200GS
    If you have more than four or five thousand miles I would definitely not wait - you need to inspect the spring cup washers. If they get too thin and break up you will get pieces run thru your motor - some have not survived that. And that's what all the recent hoopla is about with SWM. It's like a grenade waiting to go off and you never know when.

    The clutch is super easy to remove - put an impact wrench on the nut and hold the basket with a gloved hand - zing it's off. The spring cups are visible on the back side - you'll be able to see if and how much they are wearing.

    It's a cheap and easy fix with the Indy washers or whatever the flavor of the day is - they had the group buy here recently (or on ADV) and seems there's another fellow with an extra set or two in south Africa - easy air mail to get a set here. Seems to me there was a source for one-off production from some machine place as well.

    Inspect wobble on the bronze bushing at the same time - they are like a $20 part. Mine was fine. But the washers were thin, mine had 6K miles.
  4. Macker Husqvarna
    B Class

    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    06 te610 sm
    Other Motorcycles:
    none
    I will definitely order up a set from you if you have any left, please let me know
    Thanks
  5. Cutler1 Husqvarna
    AA Class

    Hi Guys
    I had a couple of sets of the clutch washers and rivets made up, for the local guys here. The washers are made of a good tool steel and I hardened them as well, did a torture test by trying to break one in a vice and a big hammer, and they are very tough.
    I am in South Africa, but I can airmail. They are $50 a set of 12 washers and 4 rivets (one extra), as well as a full set of instructions on fitting them.

    The real problem in my opinion is the rectangular slots where the washers and springs live, these slots are sheared out of the gear in manufacture and the edges are sometimes very rough, this is what eats up the washers, so in my instructions I tell people to sand/polish these faces smooth before fitting the new washers.
    My washers on my TE610 was completely gone at 10 000km (just over 6000miles), so I recommend that everyone that has one of these bikes to do these washers as soon as possible to avoid damage to the engine. The steel plate and the springs on my bike was worn badly and I replaced the springs and the plate. (Spring part no:8000 79310 need 6, Plate part no:8000 79311) Did mine some years back and the parts were not expensive. I absolutely love my Husky and consider this a easy fix for many more troublefree miles.:love:
    I can be contacted at bertierietveld4@gmail dot com
    XLEnduroMan likes this.
  6. motranqui Husqvarna
    AA Class

    Location:
    Madrid (Spain)
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    TE310 2010 & TE630 2010
    So don't you need a special tool to grab the clutch? Neither when you assemble it? Can you hold the clutch with a gloved hand while you use a torque wrench? Do you remember the torque figure for this nut?
  7. CJBROWN Husqvarna
    AA Class

    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    TE630
    Other Motorcycles:
    '15 R1200GS
    Impact wrench. You know - zing zing lol
  8. RDTCU Husqvarna
    Pro Class

    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    '11 630SMS

    Many expensive things have been broken with an impact gun
    (But I use one too...)
  9. EricV Husqvarna
    AA Class

    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    TE630

    I don't have an impact wrench. What I did was to use an old nylon strap belt I had laying around- wound it around the basket like one of those strap type oil filter wrenches. The trick, here, is to NOT use something across/through the clutch basket fingers b/c, obviously, you do not want to break any part of the assembly while attempting to hold it in place.

    So yes- it's not difficult to remove w/ a wrench- but you wanna be careful about how you immobilize it.
    motranqui likes this.
  10. motranqui Husqvarna
    AA Class

    Location:
    Madrid (Spain)
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    TE310 2010 & TE630 2010
    "Piece of cake", you would say :rolleyes:
    I imagine that it is an "intuitive" work. I've ordered some pieces to the local dealer in Spain, including the cup washers. I'm curious about if they have been "upgraded" for KTM-Husqvarna or not (Since KTM bought Husqvarna, some spare parts come into a plastic bag with the label "KTM-Husqvarna" printed on it)
    What a shame if KTM has not improved those cup washers... :D:naughty::busted:
  11. Theo Husqvarna
    AA Class

    Location:
    Lombardy, Italy
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    SM 610 I.E.
    Other Motorcycles:
    2001 YZ250
    I use an impact wrench, too.
  12. XLEnduroMan Heroes Ride Huskys. The others follow.

    Location:
    Paradise, CA.
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    '08 TE 510,'11 TE 630, Husky 4t HP!
    Today I saw my friends '07 TE 610 inner clutch springs that were pulled for the cup washer upgrade next to a set of freshly received inner clutch springs ordered through a Husky dealer. The calipers show that the new springs ARE a thicker diameter then the originals. That is a good! Anyone doing a cup washer upgrade should pony up for new springs, about $3 apiece, and be prepared to wait a month or so for them to arrive. That is about the time it took to get them here in California. Maybe the NA warehouse stocked some by now?

    Spring/caliper pics hopefully posted soon for reference.
  13. motranqui Husqvarna
    AA Class

    Location:
    Madrid (Spain)
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    TE310 2010 & TE630 2010

    Why do you think that thicker springs is a good thing? I can understand all about thicker cup washers, but I’m not sure about thicker springs… Also I guess that thicker springs involves less “cush hub clutch effect” although I'm not 100% sure.

    BTW, do anybody knows about a broken engine because of the “cup washers” issue? As far as I know so far has been reported a lot of “debris” in the magnetic screw, but not broken engines because of that. May be the debris pieces are so small and thin that are not capable to harm sprockets, gears, etc. because these pieces are too much stronger (steel) comparing to the debris. (I'm not saying that we can relax and forget this issue... only I'm curious and I want to know)
  14. Spice Weasel Husqvarna
    AA Class

    Location:
    Northern England
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    08 SM610
    I found most of the back part of one of of the “cup washers” in the left side screen. That could have easily caused my gearbox to stop functioning properly by jamming somewhere. My washers disintegrated somewhere just before the 5000 mile mark. Ive done 6000 miles on the thicker replacements and they still look good.
    motranqui likes this.
  15. XLEnduroMan Heroes Ride Huskys. The others follow.

    Location:
    Paradise, CA.
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    '08 TE 510,'11 TE 630, Husky 4t HP!
    It is not just the cup washers that are taking the damage and going to pieces in these bikes. The springs, the clutch housing and the plate on the back of the drive gear are also taking damage in these bikes from the springs banging around. This can be see in the pics people post. I have said it before, the thicker cup washers people are installing are compressing the springs more, giving them more preload and so making them less able to bang around and do damage. Thicker cup washers and thicker diameter springs then stock is going to make the springs stay put even better. The faces of the cup washers are going take hits, that's unavoidable. So the thicker and harder they are will add to their longevity, but we want them staying put with a nice strong spring assembly so their is no collateral damage (ie: metal debris) to the clutch assembly.
    motranqui likes this.
  16. motranqui Husqvarna
    AA Class

    Location:
    Madrid (Spain)
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    TE310 2010 & TE630 2010
    I’ve just received some spare parts from Italian Husqvarna in Spain, including the cup washers. There are no upgrade in them at all. As you can see, they have the same measurements.
    SANY5079.JPG

    I'm quite disappointed because I’m 100% sure than both, KTM and SWM know about this issue. Is not possible not knowing it because there are a lot of information about it at Cafe Husky, where there are Husky dealers that for sure they would have reported this thread someway. And they make nothing :confused:



    I wonder… why do you think they make nothing about it? To make an improved springs and cup washers is quite easy as they are tiny pieces that cost few money (Indy, Stujam, Luke and others have make them). It’s outrageous that having knowledge about the problem they keep making cup washers the way they make it… unless they know that the clutch problems comes not from these washers but from another part that they want to keep secret… because they have not a solution :confused:
  17. EricV Husqvarna
    AA Class

    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    TE630
    I'm kind of surprised you ordered them- I'd have assumed they would be unchanged. Now don't misunderstand- I share your frustrations and thoughts entirely...I just wouldn't have expected them to change a thing.

    What we see on an enthusiast forum is only a small slice of total ownership. While it's a well-known issue here there are many folks out there who are oblivious and have had no issues (either don't have an issue, or could care less as they're truly oblivious.) What's further is the fact that this bike was a very short run production- so "management" will predictably say, basically, "it's not worth our while to invest in making them better when demand will be so low and time limited." Then you have the KTM ownership issue- they haven't an interest in keeping this bike alive, and I'd be wildly surprised if they care at all.

    So, all in all, it seems to me to be no surprise. I'd suggest Not installing these and instead obtain the more robust set to save yourself from wondering about it soon down the road.
  18. FasYankee Husqvarna
    AA Class

    Location:
    Where you'd least expect
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    BOOM!
    Just as an FYI/PSM: when I had the trouble with my trans I was prepared to take the motor out and bring it to my local husky/KTM/Honda dealer not expecting the head of the service department inform me that KTM is not supporting any "red" (Italian) huskys. They're not permitted to work on, order parts for or service any pre-KTM huskys. Basically KTM is shunning anything they've not been responsible for producing. While it may seem shitty, from a business standpoint I get it, why would they want to clean up the previous owners mess......so I've succumbed to the fact that I'm going to do the work myself. The cases are split, the compromised parts have been identified and ordered, and they're back ordered at least a month. I'm pretty sure that when I get back from vacation I'm picking up a super-duke. The only reservation I have is parts availability....
  19. motranqui Husqvarna
    AA Class

    Location:
    Madrid (Spain)
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    TE310 2010 & TE630 2010
    You both are right. KTM is not interested at all to improve any pieces from Italian Husqvarna, that make sense. What about SWM? What about AJP – PR7 which includes the TE630 engine?
    XLenduromen made a good remark on post 240 on this thread. What I can't undesrtand is the fact that months since the RS650R has been manufactured still we cannot “look” at the spare parts catalog. In fact, it seems to be kind of a “secret” as, for example, the importer Italhusky says “I am forbidden by my importer to share it online as PDF”.
    http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/wtb-te630-11-replacement-engine.80871/

    Spare parts has become a secret document? I don’t get it… sorry, unless no modification from the TE630 have been made…
  20. CJBROWN Husqvarna
    AA Class

    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    TE630
    Other Motorcycles:
    '15 R1200GS
    DON'T PUT THE STOCK CUP WASHERS BACK IN THERE!
    This was the whole idea of the upgrade - to get a more durable part that will hold up long term.

    New spare parts are NOT being made - this is a DISCONTINUED model and no further development is going to be made by any manufacturer. Period.