Fuel pump, need auto experts here please

[OlderHuskyRider]

I am gonna buy and fit a fuel pump by itself, by choice or by necessity, for a 2010 TE 450 with 100 miles on it. I would like to find a $100 auto fuel pump that is readily available, I will carry a spare but it would nice to know that one could be sourced out of town as needed.

Here's the specs we are looking for:
10.6g/h (40 l/h) volume
returnless system
43 psi

these are the specs for the TE 630 fuel pump, should be the same/close enough for the 510 and 450

 

[Motosportz]

this will be of interest to you and looks a lot like the pump you found...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Husq...torcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories#ht_877wt_1165

 

[OlderHuskyRider]

this will be of interest to you and looks a lot like the pump you found...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Husq...torcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories#ht_877wt_1165

I saw that, it's bigger than stock, so the original mounting is forsaken, and that's OK with me, I can zip-tie with the best of them. I just dont want to spend $170 on a part I can get here for $100, AND get it anywhere, anytime, IF I can verify that it's virtually the same as the stock pump, as he verified. I'll do the testing like he did if someone with some automotive knowledge can verify that the Honda Civic pump works like the Husky pump.

 

[Colo moto]

A better plan of attack might be to find a honda civic forum to ask this question in. The chances of someone in a honda forum knowing this are higher than someone here. good luck.

 

[rajobigguy]

The only problem I see with this (and the one that guy on ebay is selling ) is the volume of the pump. If I'm not mistaken the Civic pump is approx. 140 lph which I believe is considerably more than the Husky pump flows. The problem with having to much flow is that you are putting spent energy into the fuel and constantly heating it upby bypassing so much of it. It may not be much an issue at all but it is something to consider. On the plus side the Walbro pump is one of the best you can buy and should give you years of trouble free service if everything else works out.

 

[OlderHuskyRider]

Looks like the Civic system is much different......

Fuel pressure regulator maintains proper fuel pressure to injectors. Regulator uses manifold vacuum to sense engine load and modifies fuel pressure to maintain driveability. When manifold vacuum is high, vacuum diaphragm is drawn back, overcoming spring pressure. Excess fuel passes through pressure regulator and is returned to tank via fuel return line. When manifold vacuum decreases (engine load increases), spring pressure closes off return passage, thereby maintaining fuel pressure and volume.

 

[rajobigguy]

Looks like the Civic system is much different......

Fuel pressure regulator maintains proper fuel pressure to injectors. Regulator uses manifold vacuum to sense engine load and modifies fuel pressure to maintain driveability. When manifold vacuum is high, vacuum diaphragm is drawn back, overcoming spring pressure. Excess fuel passes through pressure regulator and is returned to tank via fuel return line. When manifold vacuum decreases (engine load increases), spring pressure closes off return passage, thereby maintaining fuel pressure and volume.

It may look diffferent but the system should function the same way regardless of where the regulator is.

 

[WoodsChick]

A better plan of attack might be to find a honda civic forum to ask this question in. The chances of someone in a honda forum knowing this are higher than someone here. good luck.

My good friend and riding buddy Dan (Manic here, picking up his `11 TE310 tomorrow) was a factory Honda mechanic forever. I will point him in this direction. He'll probably post up after he gets home from work




WoodsChick

 

[HuskyDude]

OlderHuskyRider ... PM sent.

 

[Manic]

Civic Fuel Pump

I don't have my 310 yet, so I don't know the schematics of the Husky system. I would imagine that it will not work without some possible consequence though. On a 92 Civic, the pump supplys a constant 34-41 PSI. It does have a pressure relief valve that diverts fuel back to the fuel tank if a blockage occurs but this is not ment to be a pressure regulator so much as a fail safe. As OlderHuskyRider correctly stated, this system relies on an external Fuel Pressure Regulator and if supply exceeds demand based on Manifold vacuum, the extra fuel is routed back to the tank via a return line. The 2001 Civics as well as most other later fuel injected vehicles uses what's known as a "returnless" system. On these systems, when fuel demand is exceeded, the pump dumps the excess fuel directly into the tank. I think your playing with fire -no pun intended- if you substitute this pump for the stock one which I would imagine does not have near the volume of the Civic pump. What is the stock fuel pressure & volume of the OE pump? Also one other thing to consider, what's the current draw of the stock pump vs the Civic pump? Could put a considerable draw on the battery.

Hope this helps

 

[MorrisBetter]

Considering that the fuel pump is part of the emissions system, shouldn't it be covered under the USA federally mandated 50,000 mile warranty?

I know for sure that California law covers emissions equipment on motorcycles. Depending on the displacement of the engine, the warranty changes. It's always 5 years of coverage, but maximum mileage changes. Anything over 280cc is covered for 30,000 miles.

 

[OlderHuskyRider]

10.6g/h (40 l/h) volume
non-return fuel circuit
43 psi

these are the specs for the TE 630

 

[OlderHuskyRider]

I may have found it, the heat related thing may be it, explains why it never does it cold and when it does do it, it gets better with a cool down.

The Yamaha WR250R is doing the same thing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=949P9Ytvu9w

There is a recall here in Japan. Yamaha dealership will replace fuel pump for free.

The heat expands fuel pump's impeller and it hits the housing, jamming the impeller from spinning.
=========================
From the justgastanks.com website, talking about their offering for the WR250R:
Your stock fuel pump has been known to fail if you read about issues with the bike online. Please check this first if you have a problem.
===========================
thread at TT about failed fuel pumps in 2008-2009 on WR25Rs
http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=803090&page=7&highlight=fuel+pump

 

[Manic]

Considering that the fuel pump is part of the emissions system, shouldn't it be covered under the USA federally mandated 50,000 mile warranty?

I know for sure that California law covers emissions equipment on motorcycles. Depending on the displacement of the engine, the warranty changes. It's always 5 years of coverage, but maximum mileage changes. Anything over 280cc is covered for 30,000 miles.

Since a failed fuel pump does not cause an increase in emissions it is not covered by the emissions warranty.

 

[Manic]

10.6g/h (40 l/h) volume
non-return fuel circuit
43 psi

these are the specs for the TE 630

I don't have the Civic Specs in front of me but the volume output of a 1990 Accord fuel pump is 230cc/minimum in 10 seconds, which if I'm not mistaken works out to be approximately 21.9 g/h. The relief valve opening pressure is 64-85 psi. Civic should be close to that.

 

[OlderHuskyRider]

Considering that the fuel pump is part of the emissions system, shouldn't it be covered under the USA federally mandated 50,000 mile warranty?.

This is kinda like the subject of "does the PowerUp kit void the Husky warranty".

1/2 the posts you read say "Yes", 1/2 the posts you read say "No".....

 

[OlderHuskyRider]

I don't have the Civic Specs in front of me but the volume output of a 1990 Accord fuel pump is 230cc/minimum in 10 seconds, which if I'm not mistaken works out to be approximately 21.9 g/h. The relief valve opening pressure is 64-85 psi. Civic should be close to that.

Thanks Manic, but I deleted the original car part/fuel pump angle, we need a pump that is a "non return fuel circuit", most all, if not ALL, the car pumps have a return line.

Manic, if you could just think of, or ask some of your car friends, what car uses a small, non return fuel circuit fuel pump (only 1 fuel supply line from tank, no other lines)

 

[Manic]

Thanks Manic, but I deleted the original car part/fuel pump angle, we need a pump that is a "non return fuel circuit", most all, if not ALL, the car pumps have a return line.

Manic, if you could just think of, or ask some of your car friends, what car uses a small, non return fuel circuit fuel pump (only 1 fuel supply line from tank, no other lines)

Well as I said in one of my previous posts, most newer cars are using a returnless system. One of the reasons manufacturers switched to this type of system was to cut down on HC release caused from circulating the fuel back and forth from the tank to the fuel rail. I actually come from 16 years of Honda/Acura dealership experience as a lead tech. Left to work for the Bureau of Automotive Repair in 2006, so I'm pretty familliar with Emissions Warranty. That being said, I think as you suggested earlier, the flow rate would probably be to great from an automotive fuel pump. Maybe one from a Geo metro with the 1 liter Suzuki motor in it.

 

[Manic]

The only problem I see with this (and the one that guy on ebay is selling ) is the volume of the pump. If I'm not mistaken the Civic pump is approx. 140 lph which I believe is considerably more than the Husky pump flows. The problem with having to much flow is that you are putting spent energy into the fuel and constantly heating it upby bypassing so much of it. It may not be much an issue at all but it is something to consider. On the plus side the Walbro pump is one of the best you can buy and should give you years of trouble free service if everything else works out.

Sorry for the misquote. It was actually Rajobigguy

 

[Manic]

Doesn't the Suzuki RMZ use a Mikuni system? If so, has anyone price shopped them?