Fuel pump, need auto experts here please

[MorrisBetter]

So I am guessing that since there IS pressure relief (the hole) then it is NOT necessary for the pump to know what system it is running in, it just pumps......I see what you are saying now, I hope Manic is reading this....


The pump seems to respond to pressure in the system as evidencied by the fact that it shuts off after pressurizing when the key is first turned on. My guess is that there is a small accumulator somewhere in the system, and the pump cycles on/off to maintain pressure between a pre-determined high & low. If that's the case, then the actual flow of the pump is not going to be real critical. The power-on/power-off duty cycle may be another story, but considering the in-field failure rate of these pumps, duty cycle may be a problem with the stock unit.

I'm just going to order one of the eBay pumps and keep it as a spare.

 

[OlderHuskyRider]

The pump seems to respond to pressure in the system as evidencied by the fact that it shuts off after pressurizing when the key is first turned on. My guess is that there is a small accumulator somewhere in the system, and the pump cycles on/off to maintain pressure between a pre-determined high & low.

From what I've read, the fuel pump is on 100% of the time once the engine has been started.

There are 2 relay clicks when the key is turned on: the first click is the relay telling the fuel pump to prime up, the second click is to turn off the primed fuel pump and prepare for starting.

 

[glangston]

So I am guessing that since there IS pressure relief (the hole) then it is NOT necessary for the pump to know what system it is running in, it just pumps......I see what you are saying now, I hope Manic is reading this....



The pump seems to respond to pressure in the system as evidencied by the fact that it shuts off after pressurizing when the key is first turned on. My guess is that there is a small accumulator somewhere in the system, and the pump cycles on/off to maintain pressure between a pre-determined high & low. If that's the case, then the actual flow of the pump is not going to be real critical. The power-on/power-off duty cycle may be another story, but considering the in-field failure rate of these pumps, duty cycle may be a problem with the stock unit.

I'm just going to order on of the eBay pumps and keep it as a spare.

What is the in field failure rate of these pumps?

 

[MorrisBetter]

What is the in field failure rate of these pumps?

From what I'm reading here, it's pretty bad. Some reports of failures in <30 miles.

Maybe the replacement cost adds sting to the perception of actual failure rate. In any case, it's a show-stopper failure. Either we have a spare & tools on hand, or we push.

 

[ajaxauto]

Lets go back to the discussion of returnless systems.... explain or show how ours is defined as returneless and why- I am not entirely certain it would not be- I have NOTHING to refer to at this time or to qualify that- but I am not certain any one has been able to qualify or define our system in those terms yet....
look at this page- I think we have electronic returnless? if ours is returnless?

BUT different than a car- everything is inside our tank- our Fuel Presure regulator is in our tank- I believe our may not translate in the same theory as a "returnless" system. On a car a return line would come from the presure regualtor modualted by vacume (like on my jeep)- Ours is in the tank I belive it to be called the "presure sensor" as one part of the M.A.Q.S. I am not certain but if "overflow" is returned into the tank and regulated there- there's your "return".

On the jeeps up to 1996 the pump puts full pressure out all the way to the motor .On the injector rail there is a regulator which works off
vacuum and a return line all the way back to the gas tank.On the 1997 up jeeps the fuel pump and the regulator are all in one the pump regulator sits on top of the tank and is regulator by the engine brain The system has only one fuel line up to the motor with no return line
when it comes to jeeps we did many a carb to fi system we even had aftermarket tanks made to work in old jeeps with the new system We had to have the calif CARB inspect and aprove the tanks
JP magazine did a storie about ajax auto jeep conversions a few years back

 

[HUSKYnXJnWI]

From what I'm reading here, it's pretty bad. Some reports of failures in <30 miles.

Maybe the replacement cost adds sting to the perception of actual failure rate. In any case, it's a show-stopper failure. Either we have a spare & tools on hand, or we push.

Its a forum so we talk about problems Sure it highlites a failure of 1 pump on one bike that was bought and sold and bought again without many miles, but most of us are in this thread to find a solution. WHo knows maybe they primed the pump 20 times in a row wild being empty and overheated the pump- then it became an intermittent problem and they sold it to this poor guy/ I could ruin a pump on purpose- I am sure people make those mistakes all too often.

I didn't come on here and say: I bought a 2009 TE 450 in March of 2009 and put over 5000 miles of offroad/ dualsport- Without any problem whatsoever- and I am running the stock original pump. I don't have any running issues. If we all did that to the OP, it would be like saying: we don't care and being like NAna NAna Boo Boo mines fine so screw you... RIGHT now- I would not be upset if I had to buy a $600 pump- because the system has proven itself to me...and has performed. BUT I'd just as soon there be a simple $100 solution available if possible.

 

[maddog82]

I'll throw in $100 for a group buy.

 

[OlderHuskyRider]

Getting closer and closer, pretty sure I'm gonna buy one from Cristian, for the time being, because it seems that his may be the 35mm model, and yes, it appears that the long set up time for my bike may have something to do with the "gumming up" of the pump. I found that multiple Aprilia models use the same 30mm pump and they are having all the same problems. Evidently, there is a 35mm pump that Yamaha may be using that is a sure fix, maybe on the 660 Tenere, gotta do more searching.....here's a pic of the pump that the Aprilia RXV/SXV 450 and 550 twins use, same as ours....guys are having the same failures...thanks for everyone's support.

DOES ANYONE WANT A PUMP FROM CRISTIAN?
He said he would ship multiple pumps for the same shipping charge. PM if you want one. Sample install on the larger pump at the bottom of this post (the gold pump below is the stock 30mm from an Aprilia)

Cristian's larger pump means you have to ditch the mounting form. I believe this is the larger 35mm pump that Yamaha may be using, this is the pump I want, I do not want to spend money on a 30mm pump, which is the stock size for the TE models.

 

[OlderHuskyRider]

dupe delete

 

[ajaxauto]

If some one want to send me there old broken pump i will try to match it up to a automotive type pump We have 2,600 FI cars and trucks in the yard so we just might find a auto pump that will work.Heck alot of cars today have a good system and we never get to sell one because they do not break so when we crush the car there goes the pump

 

[OlderHuskyRider]

If some one want to send me there old broken pump i will try to match it up to a automotive type pump We have 2,600 FI cars and trucks in the yard so we just might find a auto pump that will work.Heck alot of cars today have a good system and we never get to sell one because they do not break so when we crush the car there goes the pump

The stock pump is 30mm x 80mm. If you can pull the pump from any small car:Honda Civic, Geo Metro and take some measurements.

 

[MorrisBetter]

Doesn't the Suzuki RMZ use a Mikuni system? If so, has anyone price shopped them?

Looking at an on-line MC parts house, it looks like the Suzuki FI pump is sold as an assembly only for ~$400.

 

[OlderHuskyRider]

Heck, if you want a full plate fuel pump assembly, check this assembly for Aprilia RXV/SXV 450/550 v-twins. Look familiar?

http://www.af1racing.com/store/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=5926

----------------------$250-----------------------------

 

[MorrisBetter]

Is this bolt/plug compatible with the Husqvarna part? Has anybody tried this part? If this part is P&P, this looks like the solution.

 

[AndrewS]

Wow, nice find! That certainly looks familiar...

 

[OlderHuskyRider]

Is this bolt/plug compatible with the Husqvarna part? Has anybody tried this part? If this part is P&P, this looks like the solution.

I have a guy measuring the Aprilia plate, my Husky plate is 5" by 3", center of hole to center of hole. He has already measured the pump unit itself at 30mm by 80mm, I measured the Husky pump today, 30mm by 80mm. Both bikes are made in Italy, I say it's the same part.

 

[OlderHuskyRider]

I may have solved my problem by CLEANING MY FUEL PUMP. Remember, my bike only had 22 miles on it when I bought it. It was manufactured in Sept 2009. It's had 22 miles put on it in 12-14 months!! I read on an Aprilia forum that bikes sitting up too long were more prone to fuel pump failure and then I remembered my many hours of removing varnish from carburetors over my lifetime. My fuel pump was varnished up!! I removed the pump assembly, cut the side out of a empty gallon oil jug, pit on its side, lined the jug with a 2 gallon zip lock bag, put the fuel pump assembly in the bag, poured a pint of injector cleaner in the bag with the pump, filled it up with about a gallon of gas. I had it all wired up to cycle it on and off by connecting to the battery. I did this for maybe 5-10 minutes and then put it all back together. The Bike ran longer and stronger than it has since I got it. It never died!! I even got it hot enough to make the fan run and the pump never quit working!! I am amazed and so happy. And to top it off, look what I found last night, for $149.....I will be buying one of these and carrying it as a spare. I am betting that this pump is 30mm diameter.


http://www.ca-cycleworks.com/shop/catalog/ducati/fuel.html

Fuel Pumps
After failing to find a reasonable replacement for the costly OEM Ducati EFI fuel pump, we commissioned these pumps to be made for us! Exact replacement for all "holster type" fuel pumps on Ducatis with the fuel pump flange plate. Exact replacement for these Ducati models: MH900e (all years), S2R1000, S2R800, 999, 749, Multistrada MTS, Hypermotard HM, S4Rs. Also compatible with all "metal tank" Monsters and SSie models (the OEM pump has shorter length but is not a problem because the pump is clamped along the body). Standard pump designed for use at 3.5 bar (Ducati spec), while HP pump is 4.5 bar for use on racing engines with modified pressure valves. Dealer inquiries welcome.

 

[waserman]

Thanks for all the research you've done and I hope that the "cleaning" takes care of your problem.If when you buy one of these pumps keep us up to date on the size specs of the new pump.

 

[HUSKYnXJnWI]

good Stuff!

I am glad the cleaner worked- hope it continues to work for you.

Seems we explored many options in the thread and you have found some new pumps to study and verify or try and error or succeed with but having an option beyond the OEM "unit" which unfortunately does not come separate as just a pump-

This has been a good thread- if you get that apprillia or ducati pump- swap it in some weekend and let us know, thanks!

 

[Coffee]

Outstanding!

http://www.ca-cycleworks.com/shop/ca...cati/fuel.html

One thing though - "The page cannot be found"