449/511 Engine Breather for the DIY Guys

[Cosmokenney]

I gotta say that it's a great idea. I'm very much a DIY guy where appropriate. In fact I built a classic 2 chamber catch can for my 511 before I saved up the money to buy the kit from Zip Ty:

It worked, but I didn't have a closed loop. I let it drain to the ground. And I didn't have a head based breather, so I was still biting my nails about toasting my Torque Limiter.

In your case, I'd be worried about the brass bending instead of breaking. The material in the head and valve cover is some kind of weird soft aluminum or magnesium. I'm willing to bet that the head will tear right open at the slightest provocation. I'd love to see you cap that hole and relocate the elbow up on the valve cover. Maybe even use a pipe cutter on the elbow to score a break-off point on the end that is attached to the cover.

 

[Dangermouse449]

I've been running 1150 ml from new changing at 5 hour intervals.
I don't do the filter every change, only every 10 hrs. (This is where getting the right amount has been tricky. The book says 1lt without a filter but is too much)
Running 5w40 Castrol Power1 Racing Synthetic.
We have this lighter grade here in Aus.

 

[Husky Bob]

Have you noticed smoother gear shifting since the change and fewer false neutrals and finding neutral much better too?

On another quick note: I want to remove the FBW cover from my bike too for better throttle control and having a weighted flywheel fitted for less clutch work in the slow stuff without losing the top end. Do you think my '13 TE449 would need any further adjustment after removing the butterfly?

 

[Dangermouse449]

No change to the shifting.
It is really just to stop the blow-by carrying oil out the breather hose. I've run the same oil from new & don't have much in the way of shift trouble.
Pulling out the butterfly makes a big difference to response.

 

[Dangermouse449]

I gotta say that it's a great idea. I'm very much a DIY guy where appropriate. In fact I built a classic 2 chamber catch can for my 511 before I saved up the money to buy the kit from Zip Ty:
View attachment 45921
It worked, but I didn't have a closed loop. I let it drain to the ground. And I didn't have a head based breather, so I was still biting my nails about toasting my Torque Limiter.

In your case, I'd be worried about the brass bending instead of breaking. The material in the head and valve cover is some kind of weird soft aluminum or magnesium. I'm willing to bet that the head will tear right open at the slightest provocation. I'd love to see you cap that hole and relocate the elbow up on the valve cover. Maybe even use a pipe cutter on the elbow to score a break-off point on the end that is attached to the cover.

I can understand what you are saying HB, about the fitting being vulnerable. The one I used is quite thin material. It's a risk, yes.
The part of the head that would be damaged could be alloy welded if the worst happened, & my son is a boilermaker.
It is actually tucked in quite a long way though. I would count it a very unlucky hit to take it out.

I also wanted to stay away from the pressure lubed cams etc in the cover to avoid all that extra oil.



Fitting not even visible from the top.

 

[Huskynoobee]

If it works then that's fine. The best part of your mod is getting the hot gases away from the torque limiter. I can see that even though it seems the shipping situation is better, getting anything sent down under is damned expensive. I'm lucky enough to be able to drive to Zip Ty, but if I were in your situation, I would surely be looking for an alternative.

 

[Dangermouse449]

Another 70km of hills, spills & thrills, still no oil in the air filter. Fast full throttle runs linking steep hills & single tracks, 5 hrs riding all up
Perfect result with only one new connection point to the motor, less chances the have a leaking connection or hose.

 

[teuchter]

Wanted to give my review of the Zip Ty Breather Bottle, since the original thread on the subject is closed:

Decision:
I installed the ZipTy 1/2 system when I bought my bike new (filler cap recovery, vent relocator and tee) and would get literally showered in oil with 1100 cc 0w40 fill when racing on asphalt. It didnt do this in offroad service since it doesnt run at sustained high revs. I was skeptical addition of the oil recovery bottle would work, based on the size of the thing, but was sick of my boots and bike being covered in oil when riding on asphalt. So were the guys at tech inspection at the race track. Decided to try the bottle.

Service:
Ordered it Friday, got it Monday. Awesome. Installed it this week and raced my 449 in the club sport class at this weekend. Thrashed it hard.

Quality:
1st class. Attracted a lot of attention at the track including the tire/suspension service guys.

Performance:
It works, it really does. 1200 cc fill and not one molecule of oil was vented to my airbox. Couldn't be happier. I low sided my bike too (on the breather bottle side) and it's so far out the way it didn't get damaged. Great design. Moral of the story is I was skeptical (like others some others here) but decided to try it. Very glad I did. I can race knowing my boots and bike will be clean at the end of the ride and my engine still has oil inside.

Thanks ZipTy!

 

[Dangermouse449]

Wanted to give my review of the Zip Ty Breather Bottle, since the original thread on the subject is closed:

Decision:
I installed the ZipTy 1/2 system when I bought my bike new (filler cap recovery, vent relocator and tee) and would get literally showered in oil with 1100 cc 0w40 fill when racing on asphalt. It didnt do this in offroad service since it doesnt run at sustained high revs. I was skeptical addition of the oil recovery bottle would work, based on the size of the thing, but was sick of my boots and bike being covered in oil when riding on asphalt. So were the guys at tech inspection at the race track. Decided to try the bottle.

Service:
Ordered it Friday, got it Monday. Awesome. Installed it this week and raced my 449 in the club sport class at this weekend. Thrashed it hard.

Quality:
1st class. Attracted a lot of attention at the track including the tire/suspension service guys.

Performance:
It works, it really does. 1200 cc fill and not one molecule of oil was vented to my airbox. Couldn't be happier. I low sided my bike too (on the breather bottle side) and it's so far out the way it didn't get damaged. Great design. Moral of the story is I was skeptical (like others some others here) but decided to try it. Very glad I did. I can race knowing my boots and bike will be clean at the end of the ride and my engine still has oil inside.

Thanks ZipTy!

Great to hear the product works as described. It also looks great on the bike.

I'm very happy with my own solution as well, having covered about 150 km of hard off-road riding including fast open riding, single track & several falls to the righthand side & still not one drop of oil in the airfilter.
Another local Aussie has done his bike the same now & it is performing well also.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[9880sts]

Wanted to give my review of the Zip Ty Breather Bottle, since the original thread on the subject is closed:

Decision:
I installed the ZipTy 1/2 system when I bought my bike new (filler cap recovery, vent relocator and tee) and would get literally showered in oil with 1100 cc 0w40 fill when racing on asphalt. It didnt do this in offroad service since it doesnt run at sustained high revs. I was skeptical addition of the oil recovery bottle would work, based on the size of the thing, but was sick of my boots and bike being covered in oil when riding on asphalt. So were the guys at tech inspection at the race track. Decided to try the bottle.

Service:
Ordered it Friday, got it Monday. Awesome. Installed it this week and raced my 449 in the club sport class at this weekend. Thrashed it hard.

Quality:
1st class. Attracted a lot of attention at the track including the tire/suspension service guys.

Performance:
It works, it really does. 1200 cc fill and not one molecule of oil was vented to my airbox. Couldn't be happier. I low sided my bike too (on the breather bottle side) and it's so far out the way it didn't get damaged. Great design. Moral of the story is I was skeptical (like others some others here) but decided to try it. Very glad I did. I can race knowing my boots and bike will be clean at the end of the ride and my engine still has oil inside.

Thanks ZipTy!

since when is that closed ?

 

[teuchter]

I was referring to this thread: http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/449-511-breather-hose-mod.25010/page-29

There may be others I'm unaware of.

 

[Tinken]

There are others, yes. That thread was closed down because someone took my breather bottle idea, secretly was having me help them and then tried to sell my idea out from underneath me. I was banned for a week for just hinting to wishing to sell my breather bottle. Things were different back then.

ZipTy Oil Recirculation Breather System (Install Examples, Closed)

ZipTy Oil Recirculation Breather System (Discussion, Open)

ZipTy Oil Recirculation (Development, Closed)

 

[Dangermouse449]

Here's a video I shot a while ago of the breather system running with no hose connected.

View: http://youtu.be/CPvUfOv09Ng

 

[randal jung]

I will be doing this mod this week. I was thinking of using a plastic (poly) threaded barb. My thinking was if this does take a hit I would want the plastic barb to break instead of risking the brass barb cracking the head case. My question is what type of heat is produced at this point in the case. I have found barbs that are rated at 275 degrees F.

 

[huskylove]

I will be doing this mod this week. I was thinking of using a plastic (poly) threaded barb. My thinking was if this does take a hit I would want the plastic barb to break instead of risking the brass barb cracking the head case. My question is what type of heat is produced at this point in the case. I have found barbs that are rated at 275 degrees F.

Smart as long as it doesnt melt from the hot gasses/steam.

 

[Trenchcoat85]

I will be doing this mod this week. I was thinking of using a plastic (poly) threaded barb. My thinking was if this does take a hit I would want the plastic barb to break instead of risking the brass barb cracking the head case. My question is what type of heat is produced at this point in the case. I have found barbs that are rated at 275 degrees F.

I would guess that you would occasionally see temps up in that range (I'm talking temp of the metal; gas temps could definitely be higher, but gases also don't transfer/conduct heat as well- so less of a worry). The good news is that a heat-related failure of your planned breather would not be catastrophic at all- so go for it. Also, temp ratings are often a bit conservative and you may have a little bit of wiggle room.

if you wanna do the experiment: after installing your plastic (nylon I'm guessing?) fitting, get the bike hot without any breather hoses on... and measure the temperatures coming out of the fitting and the fitting itself. I would do this with an IR gun (cheap nowadays) and a piece of black anodized aluminum or copper stuck in the gas flow [shiny aluminum and white things have less emissivity and don't give true readings. watch that you're not reading the head/valve cover area too. hell, maybe stick a reflector like aluminum foil between the fitting/ heat-absorber do-hickey and the head].

sounds fun. but OTOH, I think you're worried about a non-problem. DM's brass elbow is not cantilevered way out there; and any strike hard enough to cause the breather to damage the head casting would probably damage the head casting itself. or your leg.

good luck.

 

[Dangermouse449]

I'd have to say that the preference would be to use a metal one.
It will be less likely to fatigue & will be unaffected by the engine oil like a plastic one may be.

 

[randal jung]

Thanks for the replies. We did this with the brass fitting. Will be checking temps and will experiment with the poly fitting as soon as it comes in. We are still getting alot of oil blowing through. I'm thinking of putting a "T" in the the hose and running a hose back to the tranny breather outlet. Maybe there is just too much pressure venting out of the top where the new elbow is. What do you think?

 

[Trenchcoat85]

Thanks for the replies. We did this with the brass fitting. Will be checking temps and will experiment with the poly fitting as soon as it comes in. We are still getting alot of oil blowing through. I'm thinking of putting a "T" in the the hose and running a hose back to the tranny breather outlet. Maybe there is just too much pressure venting out of the top where the new elbow is. What do you think?

do you mean oil vapor or liquid oil? I would expect a lot of the vapor, and some of the liquid... ....but not a "lot". Unless you're over-filled. Or have a broken ring (and I doubt that).

put a temporary hose on it and stick the hose into something like a empty mayonnaise jar. Let the bike run for a bit and see how much you're actually getting. I would expect oil condensate to be visible, but I'd scratch my head if I saw the jar start to accumulate liquid oil that covered the bottom of the jar. (didja see DM's video? nothing on the paper towel, IIRC. 'course a 510 is a different critter but I assuming you got things out of the way of flinging oil)

Running the liquid back into the engine is how most engines were plumbed in the days after road-draft tubes and copper wool were gone (after '65??) and is plain smart too.

If you Tee the liquid back into the original vent, you may lose one of the purported advantages of the upper vent mod: routing hot gases away from the torque limiter [grrr- wait, you don't' HAVE a TL, right? Your avatar says "05 Te510" ....wait another minute: isn't a 510 already vented on the valve cover!?]. If you got a fat hose coming out of the head and a long vertical run, you may get enough cooling/condenser effect to have the liquid run back done the hose (and it shouldn't interfere with the exiting gases if it can't pool and you don't have excess blow-by). Or you could build a small tank/condenser, I guess.

good luck.

 

[randal jung]

We did this on a 449...not my bike. It is alot of oil. It is actually puddling onto the ground. The oil was drained and refilled with1100ml of fluid. Same results.