2011 TE-310 Sheared Keys & Non-Start

[srowzeen]

Recently bought 2011 TE-310. Bike appears to be in very good condition. Maiden voyage, it sheared a key. Based on examining the case the nut on the shaft came loose. We could remove it by hand. We replaced the key, replaced the freewheel. Degreased as suggested as well. Put the bike back together, torqued to spec, started it, sheared the key again. Took apart - nut had spun free (again). This time dug deeper, needle bearing was pretty well destroyed with half the rollers frozen and scarred from what appeared to be metal scars. We replaced all parts internally, freewheel, sprag, needle bearing, gaskets, de-greased, added Loctite, torqued to spec, closed her up. We replaced oil filter as well making sure metal shavings were out and not cycling through. She roughed started, but eventually got going. We rode it for 10 mins. Got her back home, she sat for an hour, we attempted to start her and she wasn't having anything to do with it. She would snap, crackle and pop, but that was it. Upon making a kick, smoke appeared from under the tank area. I stopped efforts to start. We removed the tank, inspected fuses, gas line from pump to tank - it was slightly ajar so we pressed them together thinking maybe air was being sucked into the line causing the problem. Didn't help. Thoughts on potential culprits known or unknown? Compression seems to be fine - I suspect spark or gas at this juncture, but the smoke coming from under the tank area is a serious concern. Thank you to any and all for your help. We think we've resolved the key issue. Someone suggested we inspect it again though.

 

[R_Little]

What kind of smoke. Electrical? Coolant?

These bikes have very thin wiring harnesses.

Are you sure the flywheel is still in place?

It is very weird that the flywheel nut would loosen again.

How tight did you make it?

Did you use an air impact wrench? That is a no no!
You need the proper flywheel holder.

 

[srowzeen]

What kind of smoke. Electrical? Coolant?

These bikes have very thin wiring harnesses.

Are you sure the flywheel is still in place?

It is very weird that the flywheel nut would loosen again.

How tight did you make it?

Did you use an air impact wrench? That is a no no!
You need the proper flywheel holder.

R_Little - I am not sure, it did not have that electric smell. Really was almost odorless. The smoke was white, and traveled up between the tank and radiator - literally thought the smoke was coming out of the tank.

They do have very thin wiring harnesses and I am wondering if I should somehow test the wiring, although that seems super daunting to me. Someone suggested to test the spark plug wire first to see if the ECU or other was damaged.

Flywheel nut was "finally" tightened using the Ty Racing Flywheel holder and tightened to the spec to using torque wrench. I would be stunned if that key sheared again, but I guess it could have, man that would be a huge bummer, given the fact we had two people aiding this effort who have done this kind of thing in the past.

No we did not use an impact wrench.

 

[Trenchcoat85]

In the other thread you asked for NorCal mechanic recomendations... which, since I'm kinda close to Oregon- I don't really have. But a lot of people have mentioned Dan at MotoExotica (Vacaville, right outside the bay area). I've never met him. But he is on CH occasionally, and I think he was associated with Brian Pecore at the old Cycle Pro in Santa Rosa. Anyhow, if he can't do it, I bet he knows who can that's within an hour or two from you.

 

[Trenchcoat85]

btw, lap that flywheel (valve grinding compound, jewelers rouge... something like that. use Dykem or a Sharpie to gauge your progress), then use a bearing/sleeve compound like Locktite makes, and torque that sucker good (I'd add 10% to whatever the Italian spec is; OTOH do a search here- this was solved a few years back).

I hope your crank is still balanced & aligned. And I wonder if your flywheel problem is a symptom of another issue (I'm thinking timing here; either valve or ignition).

 

[Trenchcoat85]

couple of weird things to check:

• valve timing (big blocks sometimes had a problem with this it seems; xlites- I haven't heard so much)
• ignition pick-up coil (AKA pulse coil, pulser, crank position sensor, cps, ignition trigger, trigger coil, source coil [bad nomenclature- this is supposed to be the source of power, not a sensor]and couple of more that I forget). 100 ohms is typical, but I don't know what the spec is though.
• coil ground... or generally the coil.
• spark plug. simple, so why not?
• wire loom. The Italians did not believe in wasting wire; that thing is cut to length. Lotsa rubbing/wear/breakage. sheesh.
• FI: pressure, flow. You might be able to disconnect the fuel hose from the "rail" or slip a 1/4" hose over the tank outlet and run it back into the tank; you just wanna see a steady 2 second stream when the key/starter gets turned on.
• spray starter fluid in the intake- see if you get burp or two.
• I wonder if you have an ADC problem (like the original thread). Kickbacks may have caused your first problems (woodruff key, sprag etc)
• you're right to be concerned about the smoke, and that's our big mystery.

good luck. keep us posted.

 

[srowzeen]

btw, lap that flywheel (valve grinding compound, jewelers rouge... something like that. use Dykem or a Sharpie to gauge your progress), then use a bearing/sleeve compound like Locktite makes, and torque that sucker good (I'd add 10% to whatever the Italian spec is; OTOH do a search here- this was solved a few years back).

I hope your crank is still balanced & aligned. And I wonder if your flywheel problem is a symptom of another issue (I'm thinking timing here; either valve or ignition).

Thank you for all the thoughts... we will be digging into the bike here in the next couple days. If worse comes to worse I will call Dan. My bike was actually the 500th Husky Dan sold. Dan got it all duded up with #500 decals and the like. Looks cool. It would be a lot cooler if it ran. Is Brian owner of NorCal Motorsports in Santa Rosa now? Heard he might have a mechanic as well.

 

[EUROJulian]

As I mentioned before see if you have proper contact at conical joint if key is sheared again . For now get yourself injector light and plug in to see if you have pulse...

 

[srowzeen]

As I mentioned before see if you have proper contact at conical joint if key is sheared again . For now get yourself injector light and plug in to see if you have pulse...

Sorry for my ignorance what is "proper contact at the conical joint" and what is an injector light (assuming it is a tool of some sort?). Does anyone know is there a fuel filter hiding somewhere on this bike as well.

 

[srowzeen]

Sorry figured out the injector light test... just curious what noid is needed... the set i was looking has - "set of eight specific Noid Lites covers: GM PFI, Ford TBI, Geo TBI, Bosch PFI, GM TBI, GM SCPI, and now new applications of Bosch 2 and Multec 2, plus two GM IAC testers (flat and square four connector applications)"

 

[R_Little]

R_Little - I am not sure, it did not have that electric smell. Really was almost odorless. The smoke was white, and traveled up between the tank and radiator - literally thought the smoke was coming out of the tank.

They do have very thin wiring harnesses and I am wondering if I should somehow test the wiring, although that seems super daunting to me. Someone suggested to test the spark plug wire first to see if the ECU or other was damaged.

Flywheel nut was "finally" tightened using the Ty Racing Flywheel holder and tightened to the spec to using torque wrench. I would be stunned if that key sheared again, but I guess it could have, man that would be a huge bummer, given the fact we had two people aiding this effort who have done this kind of thing in the past.

No we did not use an impact wrench.

If it smelled like nothing then maybe it was just moisture on the exhaust pipe evaporating.

After the key shears sometimes it leaves a burr on the flywheel or the crank. After that it never goes on right. Did you notice a burr? As stated above the contact surfaces need to be perfect. The Loctite to use is 609 retaining compound. It's green. lap off the burrs and dab a little 609 on the mating surfaces. BTW, If the bike kicks back when you kick it then the key has sheared again. Don't continue to try to start it if it does this as it will break the engine case.

Oh, check your coolant temp sensor. Is it white or black?
I think the black ones fail a lot. That might account for the hard starting and rough running.

 

[Trenchcoat85]

...Oh, check your coolant temp sensor. Is it white or black?
I think the black ones fail a lot. That might account for the hard starting and rough running.

Shit... again R_Little comes back with a simple possibility which I seem to always overlook. Srowzeen, this $20 part can cause all kinds of havoc; and for some reason the early model CTS was worse (which you may or may not have).

I don't know of a simple test (betcha there is though- probably resistance per temp) but it's a cheap back-up anyways.

I think there are a few members in the Diablo Valley/Danville area (20 mins?) with Italian Huskys- maybe you can compare notes.

 

[EUROJulian]

Sorry for my ignorance what is "proper contact at the conical joint" and what is an injector light (assuming it is a tool of some sort?). Does anyone know is there a fuel filter hiding somewhere on this bike as well.

You figured out injector light test. It is a quick test to determine if ECU is still alive. No special light is needed really, just more convinient with dedicated light. It you want to buy it perhaps get universal one. Also together With fuel pressure monitoring is proof positive motor is getting fuel.
Checking for proper contact in machinist world involves determining what percentage of surfaces actually meet or on what location. Usually done by coating one surface in dye.

 

[srowzeen]

Shit... again R_Little comes back with a simple possibility which I seem to always overlook. Srowzeen, this $20 part can cause all kinds of havoc; and for some reason the early model CTS was worse (which you may or may not have).

I don't know of a simple test (betcha there is though- probably resistance per temp) but it's a cheap back-up anyways.

I think there area few members in the Diablo Valley/Danville area (20 mins?) with Italian Huskys- maybe you can compare notes.

So I will check the coolant temp sensor to see which color I have. Are there fuel filters on these bikes? Where?

Thanks again! Really appreciate the thoughts

 

[srowzeen]

So this is the sensor, appears to be the black one. I am presuming this is worthy of replacement. We will be testing spark, shooting Starter Fluid as the next two steps as well. I can order this replacement part in the meantime. Seems worth it replacement given the potential issues it can cause.

 

[Trenchcoat85]

Sorry for my ignorance what is "proper contact at the conical joint" and what is an injector light (assuming it is a tool of some sort?). Does anyone know is there a fuel filter hiding somewhere on this bike as well.

fuel filter: well besides the sock (pre-filter) and canister- both in your tank, often injectors will have a fine filter in 'em.

"conical joint" is referring to what we call a machine taper fit. IOW, your flywheel-to-crank mating surface.

 

[EUROJulian]

So this is the sensor, appears to be the black one....

Your picture points to connector that will remain black. Sensor body is what needs to be checked for collor.

 

[srowzeen]

We put starter fluid in the air intake and hit the electric start- the bike fired and popped hard... smoke came out like before and we quickly realized the smoke was coming from the boot to the air intake being blow off the engine. (ie: not going through engine and out the exhaust we assume) We tightened it back up and sure enough it blew it off again. So we are trying to figure this out as this is likely contributing to the non-start.

So we are getting a nice spark.
Still have the black CTS in there, will have the new one tomorrow or Monday.
Good fuel- at least it appears to be - its flowing freely from the tank and the fuel pump is putting pressure on the line, as we pulled the line off the rear of the tank it squirted back fairly hard from the built up pressure. We haven't checked the injector though. We got super thrown off on the boot being blown off.

So timing?
CTS?
Pulse coil still (even with good spark)?
Key sheared...? We are really struggling to believe this is the problem since we truly followed all the steps as described by everyone on here.

The other thing that is killing us is the bike back fires like a beast, even when the key isn't sheared...

So all thoughts are welcome.

 

[R_Little]

fuel filter: well besides the sock (pre-filter) and canister- both in your tank, often injectors will have a fine filter in 'em.

"conical joint" is referring to what we call a machine taper fit. IOW, your flywheel-to-crank mating surface.

Is it also called a "Morse Taper"?

 

[EUROJulian]

Is it also called a "Morse Taper"?

Morse taper is a standardized conical joint for attaching machine tools, just one of many types.
Conical is a proper therm from Greek for a cone. Taper is a term referring to candle in old English. Joint in machine design refers to way two elements are held together, just like threaded, interference or welded joint. English is funny sometimes, beats me why "candle fit" is more understandable than conical joint... smiley face.
To be fully correct our flywheel joint is a combination of conical, shape and threaded joints. I do not even know how to translate "shape" joint that uses machine key... hmmm