Why is the 610 so under powered?

[Flynn]

Hi, I really like riding my 610, it is a lot of fun with great and predictable handling but on paper it looks like a damp squid compared to the other big bore four strokes. There are two issues, horsepower and weight.

610 stats

horsepower at rear wheel: 45 hp. Not even 50.

Weight: 150kg wet. Where the heck is it all!?

Here are some stats from this thumpertalk thread, found via a Google search for comparison:

Husaberg FS650
113kg / 249lbs
62hp

Honda XR650R
125kg / 277lbs
50hp

KTM 560SMR
109kg / 241lbs
55hp

Aprilia SXV550
125kg / 275lbs
58hp

Husqvarna SMR510
120kg / 264lbs
55hp

Compare it to it's stablemate, the 510SMR, where is the 610 hiding those extra 30 kilos? 10 kilos more, sure, it's road orientated. But 30? Come on!

The Honda XR650R, well renowned, reliable and powerful. Sure it doesn't have e start but e start doesn't weigh 25 kilos. Battery, starter motor, switch gear and associated wiring, 10 kilos at most.

I like the 610 but it does seem a bit of an under powered slug when you look at it on paper. Mine won't wheelie (clutch up) easily over 2nd gear. Indeed I am only a beginner but it should have a bit more grunt and it won't power wheelie at all

Even the twin cylinder Aprilia weighs less.

Answers on a postcard.

 

[Spice Weasel]

My bike weighs 150kg wet and ive changed a few things to try and make it lighter, I would think my bike started off a fair bit over that when it was standard, so i think the specs arent right. The twin silencer bikes will be even heavier.
As far as weight goes, apart from having a 12 litre tank, i think its all in the engine.Dont forget the friendly service intervals of the 610.
If you want more power you have to find a way of getting the engine to use more air. With our engines, this would mean chucking a big wad of cash at it.
The Ape is a grenade. The XR650R has 69 (dude) more cc's, the rest probably have short stroke engines that rev harder.
I can vouch that my SM610 f##king flies, so can the friend that followed once on a fightered 893 blade
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x31cend <click for link. This is what a SM610 can do in the right hands, cut to 3:50.

 

[DeLewis]

My bike weighs 150kg wet and ive changed a few things to try and make it lighter, I would think my bike started off a fair bit over that when it was standard, so i think the specs arent right. The twin silencer bikes will be even heavier.
As far as weight goes, apart from having a 12 litre tank, i think its all in the engine.Dont forget the friendly service intervals of the 610.
If you want more power you have to find a way of getting the engine to use more air. With our engines, this would mean chucking a big wad of cash at it.
The Ape is a grenade. The XR650R has 69 (dude) more cc's, the rest probably have short stroke engines that rev harder.
I can vouch that my SM610 f##king flies, so can the friend that followed once on a fightered 893 blade
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x31cend <click for link. This is what a SM610 can do in the right hands, cut to 3:50.

Faaark! You can ride...

 

[BobPS]

(snip)
I can vouch that my SM610 f##king flies, so can the friend that followed once on a fightered 893 blade
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x31cend <click for link. This is what a SM610 can do in the right hands, cut to 3:50.

Whoaa... love the video... What DeLewis said above: you guys can ride...
I'll never have the skill to ride like that... even if I had a lighter and more powerful bike.

 

[Flynn]

That's not actually him, he posted that video as an example of what an SM610 can do if you can use the brakes, handling and power correctly. I have watched that video before but not all the way as I hate that stupid song that plays. Why do Europeans have such bad taste in music

I was just hoping that a 575 engine would have more punch. A 450 motocross makes damn near 60 hp which is 125cc less than a 575. Yes I know the oil change intervals and top end refreshes etc and I wouldn't trade 10 more hp for having to do all that maintenance but a nice 50hp at the rear wheel would not seem too much to ask for.

My bike weighs 150kg wet and ive changed a few things to try and make it lighter, I would think my bike started off a fair bit over that when it was standard, so i think the specs arent right. The twin silencer bikes will be even heavier.
As far as weight goes, apart from having a 12 litre tank, i think its all in the engine.Dont forget the friendly service intervals of the 610.
If you want more power you have to find a way of getting the engine to use more air. With our engines, this would mean chucking a big wad of cash at it.
The Ape is a grenade. The XR650R has 69 (dude) more cc's, the rest probably have short stroke engines that rev harder.
I can vouch that my SM610 f##king flies, so can the friend that followed once on a fightered 893 blade
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x31cend <click for link. This is what a SM610 can do in the right hands, cut to 3:50.

I too have identified the twin exhausts as being an easy opportunity for weight saving but I love the look too much to convert to a single one. The best I might do is remove the baffling but I fear that would make the bike too loud and I like the volume as it is.

I wonder why they made the engine so heavy.

I read about many motorcycles (aforementioned 650R, DRZ400) being "corked" from the factory and benefitting from being uncorked. I presume this refers to the intake and exhaust, but when I have googled for mods on the 610 no info comes up. I would have thought a big lazy single would have quite a bit of potential in it for more HP.

I thought big singles responded well to mods like having a drilled airbox, debaffled exhaust even before carb mods. But so far everyone I ask about the 610 gives me the impression it is pretty much at it's limit which I find surprising.

Even old school engines like the CCM 604 make damn near 60 hp and they are air cooled!

 

[Spice Weasel]

Yeah, sorry that vid was made well before i got my husky, and it was in the south of france, ive never been there.Didnt mean to give the impression it was me, sorry. I think the camera bike in that vid is an SV650. I dont have a camera and i darent record what i get up to. I just gave that friend with the blade a hiding on a twisty local road.
I dont know why the engine is heavy either.
Corked just means restricted air flow, lots of back pressure in the exhaust
Once youve got your engine flowing freely (uncorked) and fueling tuned to match, then thats the easy power gains done.
The reason no mods come up on google is that there arent many after market performance parts available. Youd have to start developing and making your own totally custom parts if you were after serious power gains. Its easier and cheaper to sell the bike and buy a more powerful one.
The 450 motors that you compare to have such short strokes, they rev high, more bangs in a minute = more power.
My bike has a straight through silencer, I did the same as KXcam22 http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/my-take-on-converting-630-cans-to-flow-throughs.19706/page-6 <click link but cut 1/4 off the length, its not too loud. I have JD tuner fitted and i think the standard airbox is fine, im not drilling it or anything. I cant think of or find anything that would give me much more hp gains.

 

[RDTCU]

One thing you're forgetting is that your 610 is a 2001.
Weasel's bike, and every one you're comparing it to, is newer.
Weasel's 08 is fuel injected and rated at 54hp stock.

 

[Spice Weasel]

Just to put things into perspective, I used to own a 2001 RSV Mille and had that chipped,bigger air boot and k&n filter and straight through end can.
It dynod 113hp at the wheel! they are specd at 128hp, so thats 64hp per cylinder. It was also difficult and expensive trying to squeeze more power out of them.
The 2008 RC8 is specd at 150hp, so they had to give it an extra 150cc's along with any technological advances to give it 22hp more than the older RSV.
I had an 06 fireblade, k&n filters, air intake flap removed, PC3 usb with Yoshi map, yoshi end can, dynod 150hp at the wheel. Never needed more hp, so never went looking. Sold the fireblade cos i kept grabbing the Husky keys to go for a ride.
http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/why-is-the-610-heavy.83240/#post-568786<click link
Someone needs to chip in here with info about the Eddy Seel bikes

 

[Caboose]

Compare it to the KTM 640 lc4 and/or the Yamah XT660X and the results are way better.
The bikes on that list are not comperable with the SM 610. Most of them are race bikes with licence plates.

 

[Blazes]

I had a mint condition Eddy Seel here in South Africa set up from the factory --One word --Orgasmic --

I have had a Honda XR 650 R a 450 husky a 510 Husky and two 2009 610 TE's all at the same time --Loved the 610 more than all the others --Thus I sold the rest and kept the two 610's 2009.

All i did was a Arrow pipe fit the Power up kits and set the ECU--- Goes like a dream love it to bits. Also kept a 2013 750 Aprilia Dorsodura that replace my 2006-- 610 SM--

My Eddy Seel had no rivals imho --a piece of true factory engineering. Sold it last year to a gentleman in USA --Calofornia. Miss her somedays.

 

[Spice Weasel]

I had a mint condition Eddy Seel here in South Africa set up from the factory --One word --Orgasmic --

I have had a Honda XR 650 R a 450 husky a 510 Husky and two 2009 610 TE's all at the same time --Loved the 610 more than all the others --Thus I sold the rest and kept the two 610's 2009.

All i did was a Arrow pipe fit the Power up kits and set the ECU--- Goes like a dream love it to bits. Also kept a 2013 750 Aprilia Dorsodura that replace my 2006-- 610 SM--

My Eddy Seel had no rivals imho --a piece of true factory engineering. Sold it last year to a gentleman in USA --Calofornia. Miss her somedays.View attachment 66926View attachment 66927

So we need to bore and stroke our engines and get a special piston and camshaft and we will be rewarded with 70hp

The Seel replica has the same compression ratio as the 630 - 12.4:1 so bung a 630 piston in a stroked 610 with a hotter cam.

2004 Supermoto: Husqvarna SMR 630 "Eddy Seel Replica" Husqvarna unveiled the official replica model at the Intermot exhibition in Munich 2003. The SMR 630 is an authentic copy of the bike used by Eddie Seel in the Supermotard Championships apd World championships in 2003. Thanks to increased bore and stroke of 98 mm and 84 mm respectively, cubic capacity is increased 570cc from 630cc. The special piston and camshaft are the same as those fitted to the competition bike. The ignition system is the same as used on the NOX and the carburetor is a Keihin 41 MX. The frame was upgraded with all the modifications made to the new Supermotard Husqvarna 2003 team machines. The steering column is adjustable and lower then the series machines for improved front handling. Fork angle in standard form is 24.5? with 67.5 mm trail. The footpegs have been raised by 10 mm to permit improved cornering. The rear frame was modified to allow for quick shock absorber removal. The rear-swinging arm has been shortened to 545 mm. The exhaust is the same as that on the NOX and the cooling system has been modified and improved. The 45 mm diameter Marzocchi racing forks have been externally modified for the lowered steering and have CrN finished shafts. The front brake pump is a radial 16 x 16 type and the caliper is the same as on the NOX. The blue anodized rims are 3.50" x 16.5" for the front and 5.00" x 17" at the rear. They are shod with 120/70 and 165/55 racing tires respectively. The 2005 SMR 630 is a limited-edition model available by special order only.

 

[Flynn]

I dont know why the engine is heavy either.
Corked just means restricted air flow, lots of back pressure in the exhaust
Once youve got your engine flowing freely (uncorked) and fueling tuned to match, then thats the easy power gains done.
The reason no mods come up on google is that there arent many after market performance parts available. Youd have to start developing and making your own totally custom parts if you were after serious power gains. Its easier and cheaper to sell the bike and buy a more powerful one.
The 450 motors that you compare to have such short strokes, they rev high, more bangs in a minute = more power.
My bike has a straight through silencer, I did the same as KXcam22 http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/my-take-on-converting-630-cans-to-flow-throughs.19706/page-6 <click link but cut 1/4 off the length, its not too loud. I have JD tuner fitted and i think the standard airbox is fine, im not drilling it or anything. I cant think of or find anything that would give me much more hp gains.

I don't know what makes the engine so heavy either, it would be good in a rebuild is someone experienced with singles could rebuild a 610 engine and take note of the weight of individual parts, perhaps it's something like the engine casing is thick for durability so nothing you can change without changing the whole engine.

So do we know if a 610 is corked or not? I figure it would hard to make a twin exhaust setup too restrictive even with baffling. I am not after serious power gains just improvements in efficiency for a few horsepower here and there.

Re you're mods, you have an FI 610 which is totally alien to my old school carbed one. Did you notice any gains after you're exhaust mods? Btw, I have two airbox covers, one is already drilled, ran it for awhile but it didn't make a difference, it only had two holes in it anyway, but for green laning I put my spare non drilled one on to protect the intake better.

I wonder if the carbed bikes make more power, people always say that carbed motors are more powerful and tuneable, what I need is a carburettor expert to talk to.

Compare it to the KTM 640 lc4 and/or the Yamah XT660X and the results are way better.
The bikes on that list are not comperable with the SM 610. Most of them are race bikes with licence plates.

The 640 has about 10 more hp at the wheel (55 IIRC) the Yamaha XT660 is a disgrace in both weight and power, not sure what Yamaha were thinking with that. But the KTM 640 does kill the Husky 610, yes I know it has 125cc more but that is trivial for a single over 500cc.

 

[Spice Weasel]

So do we know if a 610 is corked or not? I figure it would hard to make a twin exhaust setup too restrictive even with baffling. I am not after serious power gains just improvements in efficiency for a few horsepower here and there.

Re you're mods, you have an FI 610 which is totally alien to my old school carbed one. Did you notice any gains after you're exhaust mods? Btw, I have two airbox covers, one is already drilled, ran it for awhile but it didn't make a difference, it only had two holes in it anyway, but for green laning I put my spare non drilled one on to protect the intake better.

I wonder if the carbed bikes make more power, people always say that carbed motors are more powerful and tuneable, what I need is a carburettor expert to talk to.

The 640 has about 10 more hp at the wheel (55 IIRC) the Yamaha XT660 is a disgrace in both weight and power, not sure what Yamaha were thinking with that. But the KTM 640 does kill the Husky 610, yes I know it has 125cc more but that is trivial for a single over 500cc.

I really dont know about twin silencers.

Yes, i noticed a difference. It feels like it revs harder and longer before hitting the limiter.

I think its a fallacy that carbed bikes are more powerful and tuneable. Like others have already posted, invest in a Lectron.

125cc's more is not trivial.

I have spare bottom end it the loft, minus flywheel, cases, stator and clutch. It has the crank and con rod. If i could get hold of performance parts and the missing parts, i could build a higher performance engine.

 

[Flynn]

Have you seen the price of a Lectron? It doesn't make a whole lotta sense unless it would give proven hp gains. Removing the baffles in the exhausts however is free.

 

[Caboose]

The 640 has about 10 more hp at the wheel (55 IIRC) the Yamaha XT660 is a disgrace in both weight and power, not sure what Yamaha were thinking with that. But the KTM 640 does kill the Husky 610, yes I know it has 125cc more but that is trivial for a single over 500cc.

The 640 lc4 is 625 cc (~50 more than the husky) and rated 53 HP at the crank.
The husqvarna 610 (576 cc) is rated around 50 HP at crank depending on the year of manufacture. And they weight about the same.
It's not much of a difference. Sure the husky a bit underpowered but not that significantly. And don't forget that Husqvarna was a small company back then, KTM sold much more bikes and had much more money/engineer to develope their engine. But if you look at the SM 610 2005 and the 640 lc4 same year they are more or less the same in both performance and weight.

 

[mg94]

The extra horsepower is in your right hand and how well you manage that, the rest is just a dick-swinging contest. A drz 400 with its measly 41 crank hp can shit all over the bigger ktm and husqys, that are all just as underpowered compared to any 600cc that isn't a single. If you want hp for the straights - buy another bike. Also, static weight means jack shit, really. Once you free the bike from absurd weight in absurd positions (looking at you, stock 630 mufflers.. 11 kgs at seat height is kind of lol) it all comes down to your positioning on the bike, your entry speed, your braking point(s), your line manageament.

About the Eddy Seel replica, it has a completely different bottom end, the two engines aren't comparable. The 570 engine doesn't have a counterbalance shaft, much lighter flywheel, no e-starter, lighter crankshaft, simpler design. But it vibrates like an airplane and requires rod and piston rebuild every 10000 km.

Now can we please stop with these silly topics?

 

[rancher1]

The biggest difference between you 45 hp 2001 model and the 2006-2009 55 hp models is the hi compression piston and the switch to the FRC 41 carb, plain and simple that is where the HP can come from. Depending on what is in your exhaust you may be able to make a little gain, but since yours is a Euro model I have no idea. The others are correct you are comparing long service interval dual sport model to hi maintenance competition models. Husky made a TE 610 just like the others that is light and has more hp and requires more service than your TE 610 E. If you want the hp you will need the hi comp piston and carb. I hope you are starting to understand the differences between the types of bikes.

 

[Spice Weasel]

2008 610, compression ratio-11:1. From the dyno results online, healthy examples are making 48hp
630 compression ratio 12.4:1 From the dyno results online, healthy examples are making 55hp
So 24cc more and a higher CR gets a 7hp gain

I couldnt find any dyno results for the lower compression 9:1 2001 model so had to leave it out. I wanted actual dyno results, not quoted hp, which seem to be lies.

 

[Flynn]

The extra horsepower is in your right hand and how well you manage that, the rest is just a dick-swinging contest. A drz 400 with its measly 41 crank hp can shit all over the bigger ktm and husqys, that are all just as underpowered compared to any 600cc that isn't a single. If you want hp for the straights - buy another bike. Also, static weight means jack shit, really. Once you free the bike from absurd weight in absurd positions (looking at you, stock 630 mufflers.. 11 kgs at seat height is kind of lol) it all comes down to your positioning on the bike, your entry speed, your braking point(s), your line manageament.

About the Eddy Seel replica, it has a completely different bottom end, the two engines aren't comparable. The 570 engine doesn't have a counterbalance shaft, much lighter flywheel, no e-starter, lighter crankshaft, simpler design. But it vibrates like an airplane and requires rod and piston rebuild every 10000 km.

Now can we please stop with these silly topics?

It isn't a silly topic, a supermoto is supposed to be a barely legal road going fire breathing race bike perched on a knife's edge. I am just questioning the underwhelming on paper stats of the 610.

2008 610, compression ratio-11:1. From the dyno results online, healthy examples are making 48hp
630 compression ratio 12.4:1 From the dyno results online, healthy examples are making 55hp
So 24cc more and a higher CR gets a 7hp gain

I couldnt find any dyno results for the lower compression 9:1 2001 model so had to leave it out. I wanted actual dyno results, not quoted hp, which seem to be lies.

Interesting figures, the 630 is significantly more powerful then. 7hp counts for a lot in a 140 kilo motorbike. I think when they become cheaper I might look for one of them.

 

[RDTCU]

It isn't a silly topic, a supermoto is supposed to be a barely legal road going fire breathing race bike perched on a knife's edge. I am just questioning the underwhelming on paper stats of the 610.

If that's what you're looking for, then buy an Aprilia SXV550, not a 15 year old Husky...

Interesting figures, the 630 is significantly more powerful then. 7hp counts for a lot in a 140 kilo motorbike. I think when they become cheaper I might look for one of them.

The 630's are certainly head and shoulders above the old stock carb 610's, but are pretty gutless from the factory due to running ridiculously lean. If the previous owner hasn't done it, you'll want to install some sort of fueling tuner from JD or Power Commander, and open up the exhaust and intake.

I had mine for 2 weeks before I got the tuner ordered, and about another couple weeks after that I gutted the factory cans.