All 2st Trials tires on a 2T

[jmetteer]

I have the K270's on my Transalp, big heavy beast but that tire has got me out of some places I should not have been in with that bike...

A couple of my friends race endurox and when trials tires were banned they started using the 270. They said it works almost as well as a trials tire, they are running tubliss kits and 3-4 psi.

Later,

 

[Bradass80]

I've had a Dunlop 803 on my WR250 for 2 years now, it's probably 3/4 gone. I really like the tire in just about everything. The only time it didn't seem to work as well as the other guys I was riding with that had knobbies on was in really deep baby powder type silt, the trials tire would just dig and bury the rear end where the knobbies had more of a paddle type effect. You can't brake slide into corners, it'll lock up and kill the bike most of the time. I'm probably riding similar terrain as the OP, I'm in CO and ride in WY pretty often. As long as this tire has lasted and for the few draw backs, I plan to keep buying them. I would say downhill, loose, rocky ascents aren't much different than with a knobby in my opinion. I think I'm a slow B rider, so the pro riders on here would probably not agree with me. In the early season riding when there's muddy roots and rocks the trials tires benefits are most noticeable, most of the time you don't even notice the difference. Brad.

 

[Vinduro]

I have the K270's on my Transalp, big heavy beast but that tire has got me out of some places I should not have been in with that bike...

A couple of my friends race endurox and when trials tires were banned they started using the 270. They said it works almost as well as a trials tire, they are running tubliss kits and 3-4 psi.

Later,

Trials tires banned ???? Not that I am a big trials tire fan but what is the reasoning behind banning Trials tires ? I think the K270 is modernized trials tire pattern. It does for sure work better than an old dual sport type trials tire from the 70s. I am thinking of experimenting with one again.

 

[lankydoug]

I have the K270's on my Transalp, big heavy beast but that tire has got me out of some places I should not have been in with that bike...

A couple of my friends race endurox and when trials tires were banned they started using the 270. They said it works almost as well as a trials tire, they are running tubliss kits and 3-4 psi.

Later,

A trials tire must have been better for them to have banned them, I'm sure the tire sponsors that don't make trials tire like Maxxis don't like seeing the winners on the type of tires they don't sell. Tubliss will make any tire work better, all you have to do is think of how good a tire hooks when it's almost flat and then know that Tubliss eliminates all the problems associated with running low air pressure. (pinch flats, dented rims, valve stem tearing because of tire moving or coming off the bead, ect)

 

[jmetteer]

Trials tires banned ???? Not that I am a big trials tire fan but what is the reasoning behind banning Trials tires ? I think the K270 is modernized trials tire pattern. It does for sure work better than an old dual sport type trials tire from the 70s. I am thinking of experimenting with one again.

I think it was in 2009, Maxxis was the series sponsor, they didn't make a trials tire... Everyone was running trials tires and it was a bit of a problem for them so they banned them.

Now you can run a trials tire, on a trials bike, in the trials class...

Later,

 

[motosapiens]

I tried 2 trials tires. Never again. No traction on downhills or going into corners. Basically no braking traction. The tire just floats on top of the dirt instead of digging in. You can't beat one for rooty / rocky uphills but the negatives in my case outweigh any advantages. I had them on a 530EXC KTM and they were chunking knobs in 65 miles on both tires.

with all due respect for your vast experience, I believe you are simply used to skidding your rear tire on downhills and into corners. I also believe you specifically tried trials tires in races, even tho smart and experienced people suggested there wouldn't be any advantage for a rider of your skills in typical racing terrain, and there might be significant disadvantages. Once a trials tire is skidding, it skids more than a knobby. That is the same whether you are brake sliding, power-sliding sideways, or roosting straight ahead. If that's your riding style, and you ride in terrain where that style is appropriate, then a trials tire might not make much sense.

OTOH, for folks that mostly ride in more extreme technical terrain, and/or on more fragile trails, or for folks that tend to keep their wheels rolling rather than skidding, it can work pretty well. It's not the perfect tire for everyone, but it works pretty good in many situations (and not very good in certain others).

 

[motosapiens]

Yep, that's the one I mentioned in Post #4. I've yet to hear of anyone actually purchasing one and riding with it...have you?

I rode with a ktmtalker in moab on saturday that had a shinko 19" trials tire on his 250sx. it looked and felt like a sticky tire, and it performed great. he was using the tubliss system, so the lack of air-volume wasn't as big a deal for pinch flats. Note that we only did mainstream riding tho, gold-bar rim, golden spike, poison spider and some of sovereign. He was also more of skilled trials-y sort of rider than a wildly-spinning racer-type.

Regarding the d803 (which is what I use when I ride trials-tire terrain), mine last 3000-4000 miles, but I am intensely bored by high-speed riding, so I don't really do anything over 50 mph.

 

[WoodsChick]

I rode with a ktmtalker in moab on saturday that had a shinko 19" trials tire on his 250sx. it looked and felt like a sticky tire, and it performed great. he was using the tubliss system, so the lack of air-volume wasn't as big a deal for pinch flats. Note that we only did mainstream riding tho, gold-bar rim, golden spike, poison spider and some of sovereign. He was also more of skilled trials-y sort of rider than a wildly-spinning racer-type.

Regarding the d803 (which is what I use when I ride trials-tire terrain), mine last 3000-4000 miles, but I am intensely bored by high-speed riding, so I don't really do anything over 50 mph.

Thanks for the feedback on the Shinko, Mark. Nice to know it's a decent tire
Although, even crappy trials tires work well in Moab

I've still not heard of anyone actually purchasing/using the 19" Vee trials tire...have you? I'm quite curious about it.

 

[NWRider]

I have run trials tires before and am thinking of one again so this looks to be a good place to ask some questions.

I notice lots of people are using the Tubliss system now. I can imagine the traction is just awesome but how does that hold up in rocks? When I ran the Dunlop I had multiple slices in the sidewall so I am thinking without a tube I would have had lots of flats. I see many use the MT43 but wouldn’t any traction you gain from the lower pressure be lost to not being a true radial trials tire? For example running a MT43 Tubeless at 5psi compared to a Dunlop/Michelin at 8psi with a tube?

If I try another one I was thinking of the cheap Michelin tube type. This is a bias ply tire, not the X-11 tube type they used to make. I have only seen a few reports but it seems to work OK for people. Has anyone tried one? I really do not want another Dunlop as it is such a pain to mount and get the bead seated. I would still be putting a knobby back on for snow so I would rather not have a real difficult time with tire changes.

I noticed the OP has a 125 so you might want to consider weight. I did not care for the MT43 on a 125. It is a 14 pound tire and then I had a UHD tube for another 2.5 pounds. Plus it is taller than other trials tires so clearing the mud flap and gearing is a bigger issue.

 

[jbankes]

Anyone know offhand how much taller or lower the Dunlop 803 is compared to the Pirelli MT43? The MT43 really changed my gearing on my WR ,was kinda hoping the Dunlop was shorter. The 18" Shinko is Tiny height wise compared to the MT43 but was shredded after one ride P.A. rock ride on my TE450 not sure how it would fair on my WR144.

 

[lankydoug]

Th

I have run trials tires before and am thinking of one again so this looks to be a good place to ask some questions.

I notice lots of people are using the Tubliss system now. I can imagine the traction is just awesome but how does that hold up in rocks? When I ran the Dunlop I had multiple slices in the sidewall so I am thinking without a tube I would have had lots of flats. I see many use the MT43 but wouldn’t any traction you gain from the lower pressure be lost to not being a true radial trials tire? For example running a MT43 Tubeless at 5psi compared to a Dunlop/Michelin at 8psi with a tube?

If I try another one I was thinking of the cheap Michelin tube type. This is a bias ply tire, not the X-11 tube type they used to make. I have only seen a few reports but it seems to work OK for people. Has anyone tried one? I really do not want another Dunlop as it is such a pain to mount and get the bead seated. I would still be putting a knobby back on for snow so I would rather not have a real difficult time with tire changes.

I noticed the OP has a 125 so you might want to consider weight. I did not care for the MT43 on a 125. It is a 14 pound tire and then I had a UHD tube for another 2.5 pounds. Plus it is taller than other trials tires so clearing the mud flap and gearing is a bigger issue.

The Tubliss does much more than seal the tire it also acts like a 360 degree bead lock and doesn't let the sidewall flex at an angle to the rim which protects the sidewall and the rim and keeps the tire standing straight up instead of rolling off the rim when high side loads are applied. (have you ever wondered how dirt gets inside your tire when you're running a tube?) This set up actually solves some suspension issues by allowing the lower pressure tire to absorb lots of the little kickers that would normally require a re-valve/compromise. The tubliss set up and the trials tire are not the magic solution separately but together it's amazing.

 

[Motosportz]

I really do not want another Dunlop as it is such a pain to mount and get the bead seated.

I have read this before but never had that issues and installed many of them. I find them very EZ to mount and never had an issue getting them to bead. I actually find them super EZ to mount as they are tall and flexible.

 

[NWRider]

Mine always took about 80psi to seat, and that was with a lot of WD-40.

Maybe it is just the way I mount tires but Dunlops always are the hardest for me because the beads seem a little tighter. I just put a 773 on and it was the worse tire I have ever mounted. It is not really stiff but the bead was so tight. I remember the same experience with a 742fa and a 952.

 

[NWRider]

jmetteer - what trials tire do you use and do you use a tube? Just curious what is working best.

 

[Motosportz]

jmetteer - what trials tire do you use and do you use a tube? Just curious what is working best.

he is in the hospital. He uses a 803 and tubeless. I use an 803 and tube at 7 psi.

 

[NWRider]

Poor guy is having a bad year.

I thought you were running like 10psi and still feeling the rim? Maybe I am thinking of someone else. If 7 is enough for you it would be plenty for my speed. I used to run 8 in my Dunlop but never had a flat so maybe I could go with less. I tried 5 just for a test on the MT43 and made it about a mile The tubeless sounds so good but I can not figure out how the flimsy sidewalls are holding up. I believe you found out how easy it is to tear one. Mine had several cuts but none big enough to junk the tire or pop the tube. I guess you would just have to be prepared to pop a tube in a few rides a year. Of course if the inner high pressure tube holds I guess one could ride out OK.

 

[water racer]

Like oil and helmet threads, everyone seems to agree....
GP

 

[motosapiens]

Anyone know offhand how much taller or lower the Dunlop 803 is compared to the Pirelli MT43? The MT43 really changed my gearing on my WR ,was kinda hoping the Dunlop was shorter. The 18" Shinko is Tiny height wise compared to the MT43 but was shredded after one ride P.A. rock ride on my TE450 not sure how it would fair on my WR144.

I'd have to see some actual testing before I believed that trials tires had a significant effect on final gearing due to size. Of course they *might* have an effect due to drastically reduced tire-spin. It's something I've only ever noticed at the very lowest speeds in loose-ish soil, which makes me thing tire-spin rather than diameter. At any rate, I'm not much of a tire-spinner, so I typically can't feel any diff at all.

If I try another one I was thinking of the cheap Michelin tube type. This is a bias ply tire, not the X-11 tube type they used to make. I have only seen a few reports but it seems to work OK for people. Has anyone tried one? I really do not want another Dunlop as it is such a pain to mount and get the bead seated. I would still be putting a knobby back on for snow so I would rather not have a real difficult time with tire changes.

Tresa and I have each used both. I can't tell any significant difference, but I'm probably not the world's most sensitive person in that regard. I also don't recall any significant difference in installation or seating, but as I'm fond of saying to mrs. sapiens, "if it's hard, yer doin' it wrong" (note this only applies to tire installation, and not other wifely duties).

 

[NWRider]

motosapiens, do you mean you have tried both the Michelins, or the Dunlop and the tube type bias ply Michelin? I've heard the Michelins are real easy to mount.

The MT43 will effect gearing. While the Dunlop is not much taller than a tall knobby like a MT16 the MT43 is a good bit taller. Mine ran real close the the mud flap where the knobby I replaced it with had like half an inch more room.

 

[montgob1]

jake ditched the tubliss before i rode with him, i think he tried to give it to me once?, he runs the UHD tubes in his, pressure unknown. probably WTFE it rolls off the trailer with. I run 7-8 psi with my 803, i dont run the UHD tube, just HD irc tubes. So far so good. 803 isnt the easiest to mount, i had to heat mine up to help it out.