All 2st Trials tires on a 2T

[edmoto]

Looking into the advantages or disadvantages of using a trials type tire on the rear wheel of a 2T (in my case, a CR125 to be used in woods riding). From what I've seen, using a trials tire has generated mixed reviews. Does anyone here have any experience with this type of tire? Is there a thread or site that helps explain why a trials tire does well for enduro purposes in addition to its intended use on trials bikes?

 

[WoodsChick]

Doesn't the CR have a 19" rear wheel? Trials tires don't come in 19". I use one on my WR with an 18" wheel and they are the cat's meow for finding traction in rocks and roots and gnarly stuff. I've been running rear trials tires for about 8 or 9 years now and I love them. They tend to push the front a little since, they don't slide as readily as a knob, and they take a little getting used to...a somewhat smoother riding style, if you will. If you like to brake slide all the time and like to square corners off like a motocrosser you probably won't be happy with a trials tire. They can be a bear to repair on the trail, too, as it is sometimes hard to get the bead to seat. Trials tires don't stay on the rim when they're flat like a regular knobby will. But for pure traction in rocks and wet roots and log crossings and whatnot, they simply cannot be beat. I know a few folks that have tried them and not liked them (one of which liked to square everything off) but not very many. Most that try them are blown away at the flat-out grip they provide. They used to last longer than they do these days...I don't know why. They'll look like crap after your first ride on them, then they'll keep working way longer than a knobby.

 

[jmetteer]

I run one on my CR125, it is a killer combination for gnarly trails. In my experience the less power a bike has the better the trials tire works.

Here are a couple video's...

The first section of this is very technical, I did it once this year with a knobby on the 125 but it was more difficult.



This section is called Devils Staircase...



Later,

 

[WoodsChick]

I run one on my CR125, it is a killer combination for gnarly trails. In my experience the less power a bike has the better the trials tire works.

I agree. Neither Eric nor I like them on the bigger 4-strokes.

So am I wrong in thinking that the CR's come with a 19" rear?

Vee Rubber said they had a 19" trials tire available, but I've yet to see one on the market. Shinko offers one, too, but don't know if it's a "real" trials tire or not.

 

[Xcuvator]

I sure like the D803 Dunlop on my WR250. for like has been said, gnarly rocks, roots etc. I have a spare back wheel with a MotoZ Enduro ST if it's real muddy or open riding.

It is amazing how they still work fine when they show alot of wear. I guess they are so soft and thick bodied (high side wall) and with low air pressure, they kind of grab hold of obstacals, that is to say form around them and really hook up. Not much tire spin.

 

[montgob1]

cr has a 19, we swap 18's on for the trials. I run a 1988 YZ250 wheel for my dunlop 803. There are 19" trial options available though. The trials tire on a 144 is awesome, only time i wished for a knobby was in some loose steep downhills when i couldnt stand up, i strugle with the rear brake modulation when im not standing on the pegs.

 

[edmoto]

Yep, the CR has a 19" rear wheel. I want to use winter for toying around and farkling the bike, to include getting red anodized front and rear rims with the rear going to an 18" so I can use a trials tire. I am surprised the rear rates so highly for grip. Obviously, climbing a 10' rock face with a trials bike you'd want that. But for woods riding I would have though the small tread pattern meant they couldn't fling off mud/dirt as well as large knobbied tires, and the way trials tires don't have as much lug handing over the edge of the tire side meant that they wouldn't grip as much when leaned over. It appears that if you're going to chase the Swamp Thing in mudded out conditions, a full knobby tire is best. But if you're just chasing Sasquatch on dry and rocky trails, trials is the ticket.

 

[edmoto]

Just checked your vids, jmetter. Holy Moses! Good stuff

 

[jbankes]

I run a Pirelli MT43 on a 09 WR144, I really like the tire on the bike. The soft sidewall really helps take away the sharp bumps and knocks the would normally bounce a knobby's traction away,seems to grab and roll over, rather than grab and throw. Downside- braking under just about all conditions is different(and worse) and take's some getting used to. You will make it thru most muddy sections as long as you keep moving. Mine is wearing well, I think I can make it a year of riding Sundays on one rear trials tire and maybe one or two front knobby's. So far the S-12 Michelin has been fantastic but I have a Maxxis SI to try next.

 

[water racer]

Our trails are getting so rocky I am going to try a trials tire but keep a S-12 for super muddy days. A friend who is an A class rider(KTM 400) says if you are the type rider that throttles for traction instead of a rooster you will like a trials tire although down hill braking is not so good.
By the way jmetteer, that trail looked steep even on video!
GP

 

[Dirtdame]

For people who have 19 inch rims, Shinko (formerly Yokohama) makes a 19 inch radial design trials tire called the Trail Pro.
http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/2/29/392/36631/ITEM/Shinko-Trail-Pro-255-Rear-Tire.aspx

 

[WoodsChick]

But for woods riding I would have though the small tread pattern meant they couldn't fling off mud/dirt as well as large knobbied tires, and the way trials tires don't have as much lug handing over the edge of the tire side meant that they wouldn't grip as much when leaned over.

The tread pattern doesn't look like it would fling off mud and dirt, but they're so flexible that the spaces between the lugs tend to widen at the contact patch and they tend to clean themselves out pretty well.

There are 19" trial options available though.

What would those options be besides the ones I mentioned? Very curious for a friend that has a 19" rear

A friend who is an A class rider(KTM 400) says if you are the type rider that throttles for traction instead of a rooster you will like a trials tire although down hill braking is not so good.
GP

I've never had an issue with downhill braking, and neither have any of my many friends that ride trials tires.

 

[Idacurt]

I run a trials with a tubliss system(8psi) on my wr125 and it hooks up great.No problems on the downhills.Deep mud may be a problem but where I live its all rocks,roots and stream crossings

 

[lankydoug]

I run a MT43 Pirelli rear with the Tubliss inner liner/360 degree bead lock. tire @ 6-7 psi

This set up works so good it is crazy. The trials tire doesn't work as good when sliding but if you use some finesse and don't lock the brake as much and roll the throttle on smoothly it feels like velcro and will easily bring the front wheel up over obstacles. I had to adapt my riding style to a more technical controlled style as opposed to sliding into corners squaring them and roosting my way out. (I still slide in a little at slower speeds) I feel I'm becoming a lot better woods rider because if this change. An advantage that I've not seen mentioned much is how the high sidewall of the trials tires soak up the little rocks and kickers letting you set your shock to work better on the bigger stuff since there is less need to compromise your clicker settings. Also a hidden benefit is that the trials tire will grow taller at high speed and act like an extra high gear, the squarish contact patch will grow like a drag slick which allows you to gear your bike a little lower and still get the same top speed as a knobby would with a higher gear. Because of this you have to allow more clearance between your tire and mud flap or it will rub at high speed. When I re-geared my bike 13:53 I bought a longer chain and set it up so that the wheel is towards the back of the adjustment slot. The MT43 has a little stiffer sidewall and is a DOT tire it has good high speed stability unlike the true trials tires which some have reported to give a wobbly feeling at high speeds. The MT43 is stable to at least 75mph with only 7psi in it. (I know this for a fact ) I think the Tubliss set up is a big factor in taking advantage of the pluses the trials tire has to offer, in other words running high pressure negates many of the advantages.

I think a knobby has an advantage if you're on wet grass, deep mud, deep sand or you are a pro level rider that is on the pipe carrying lots of momentum through nearly every situation, the rest is advantage MT43 with Tubliss including longevity. I have put a little over 200 miles of single track with rocks roots and logs and my tire looks almost new and hooks up like the 1st day I put it on. At the rate it's wearing I'm expecting close to 1,000 miles before I have to replace it.

 

[firecrotch]

I run it on my 300 and couldt image anything else. Of course we dont have normal dirt here in the northwest. Just rocks ruts, roots, roots, rocks and ruts. Oh did I mention rocks...lots of them? hahah -would love to run a knobby but once I discovered how amazing trails tires are in this stuff I never went back.

 

[jbankes]

I tried a 18" Shinko Trail Pro on my TE450 it was WAY to soft,grip was awesome but tire chunked easy and sidewalls are very weak bike fishtailed and was very squirmy reguardless of air pressure and speed(compared to a Pirelli at 8psi) I would'nt waste my time mounting another as the Pirelli is hands down better. Maybe on a lighter bike it would be tolerable,but I'd never buy another.

 

[Torrmentor]

I ran an IRC (tube type) for the last ride & race of the year. INCREDIBLE. Mud, moto track, ruts, hard pack supercross track, rock filled snotty climbs, etc. It didnt matter. The tire was confidence inspiring.

 

[WoodsChick]

I ran an IRC (tube type) for the last ride & race of the year. INCREDIBLE. Mud, moto track, ruts, hard pack supercross track, rock filled snotty climbs, etc. It didnt matter. The tire was confidence inspiring.

I like the IRC's, too. They're my favorite of the lot. They used to be dirt cheap but not anymore.

 

[Vinduro]

The tread pattern doesn't look like it would fling off mud and dirt, but they're so flexible that the spaces between the lugs tend to widen at the contact patch and they tend to clean themselves out pretty well.

What would those options be besides the ones I mentioned? Very curious for a friend that has a 19" rear

I've never had an issue with downhill braking, and neither have any of my many friends that ride trials tires.

I tried 2 trials tires. Never again. No traction on downhills or going into corners. Basically no braking traction. The tire just floats on top of the dirt instead of digging in. You can't beat one for rooty / rocky uphills but the negatives in my case outweigh any advantages. I had them on a 530EXC KTM and they were chunking knobs in 65 miles on both tires.

 

[Torrmentor]

I tried 2 trials tires. Never again. No traction on downhills or going into corners. Basically no braking traction. The tire just floats on top of the dirt instead of digging in. You can't beat one for rooty / rocky uphills but the negatives in my case outweigh any advantages. I had them on a 530EXC KTM and they were chunking knobs in 65 miles on both tires.

I'm kinda shocked by this. I just did a race with an elevator drop downhill to a right hand sweeper at the bottom. I thought the trials tire might give me an issue at that spot on the course (I had visionas of the rear of the bike beating the front end to the bottom, like in the cartoons...), but despite the loose soil and some small rocks on the long drop, it handled it really well. I think compound is a factor in this aspect of the tire. I'm sure it's heavily soil-type dependent.