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Hi everyone,
As you all know, Coffee (Dean) passed away a couple of years ago. I am Dean's ex-wife's husband and happen to have spent my career in tech. Over the years, I occasionally helped Dean with various tech issues.
When he passed, I worked with his kids to gather the necessary credentials to keep this site running. Since then (and for however long they worked with Coffee), Woodschick and Dirtdame have been maintaining the site and covering the costs. Without their hard work and financial support, CafeHusky would have been lost.
Over the past couple of weeks, I’ve been working to migrate the site to a free cloud compute instance so that Woodschick and Dirtdame no longer have to fund it. At the same time, I’ve updated the site to a current version of XenForo (the discussion software it runs on). The previous version was outdated and no longer supported.
Unfortunately, the new software version doesn’t support importing the old site’s styles, so for now, you’ll see the XenForo default style. This may change over time.
Coffee didn’t document the work he did on the site, so I’ve been digging through the old setup to understand how everything was running. There may still be things I’ve missed. One known issue is that email functionality is not yet working on the new site, but I hope to resolve this over time.
Thanks for your patience and support!
Suspension Setup recommendations.
- Thread starter Vinduro
- Start date
Vinduro
Husqvarna
Pro Class
In my opinion very little. Some think that you might need a step or so stiffer on front but I wouldn't think that would be right if you want the bike to turn. The main difference between the two will be compression damping. Also if there is separate adjustment, Offroad needs very little high speed damping and MX needs a lot more. Low speed is for jumps and whoops. High speed it roots , rocks, and square edged holes.
Vinduro
Husqvarna
Pro Class
The KTM style PDS needs more static sag than a linkage style suspension. That is the main difference. Also on a PDS you want as little preload on the spring as possible. Works best with only about 3mm preload. My KTMs worked as well as any Honda linkage rear end that I have ever ridden. Linkage suspension is a bit more forgiving on having the wrong spring. That is why so many are able to use the wrong spring and still think their setup is working correctly. BUT, Even with a linkage suspension, having the correct sags and spring rate makes a big difference in control, IMO.
OK, got it. Your making up for the lack of linkage by taking away preloads, sounds good.Hence the need to offset the leverage of linkage. Once i had an option for a progressive spring rate on the shock and turned it down for the reasons you gave for preload as it was indeterminate based on spring rates. Great post, thanks.
Vinduro
Husqvarna
Pro Class
If a MX rider insists on running a stiffer fork spring than my sags indicate then there will be a handling / turning issue. Some MXers do this for going through whoops especially on a SX style course. BUT, in my opinion , I would rather setup the bike with the correct springs and sags and keep the the bike up in the stroke more with compression damping so the bike will setup properly for cornering. So IMO you should use the same percentages of travel to set your sags. Although a MXer should set his up to fudge on the less sag side (remember the 2-3mm allowance) where a offroad rider should set his up to the plus sag side with good results. I try to be as close to the mark as I can get it.
For the record, the software we are using does not have the 'copy post' function like we used to have, and you probably still have on TT. That would be much more preferable, and that is how the previous tech articles were handled.
Hence that is why I needed to copy the contents of your first post, then post it as my own with a link to this thread.
HUSKYnXJnWI
Husqvarna
AA Class
Reporting back...
For reference- my forks are open 50mm Marzocci’s
PVC Spring Spacers:
I made some pvc preload spacers from what I had: 1 ½” and they didn’t work the OD was too big by a few mm’s. (I had 1 ½” at home at the time)...... I then went at it from a detailed standpoint- the stock spacer is: 47.8mm in length, 46mm OD, and 38.7mm in ID, wall thickness is 3.6mm. . I considered the minimum ID being that of the OD of the spring guide on the dampner tube. (33.8mm). I checked a chart online for specs on PVC sch 40 and 80 and found that 1 1/4” Sch 40 was the closest to the stock spacer that would work: 42.16mm OD, 35mm ID. SO 1 ¼” SCH 40 PVC is what to use.
I cut spacers- to 43mm length (4.8mm shorter) which should result in more static and rider sag as suggested above. I will check this weekend as to the results: measurements and some test riding…
PS- (blablablaaaa) I could have taken 5mm off the stock spacers to achieve the same thing- but wanted to keep them if I ever wanted or needed to switch back- also you can't buy them from Husky- there's no part number. So I just wanted to ensure I could make ones that work without messing with the OEM ones. If anyone finds the "exact" tube to make spacers from as OEM let us know (but 1 1/4" is as close as you can commonly find from what I gathered- and there shouldn't be a problem with them I just usually try to be more exact- if I had a lathe- I would have taken the 1 1/2" down a few thousandths and worked with that...
Also- side note: I changed my fork seals- I found one of my outer tubes had a flat spot near the dust seal seat- from an impact at some point… I used one of my BIG sockets that are slightly smaller than the ID of the outer tube and had someone hold the tube as I lightly tapped the socket with a hammer to round the dent- so to speak- its not “perfect” but its darn close you can’t see or feel the flat spot anymore… Just thought I’d mention that because I would think it more common than not- and it appears to have fixed it. Just have to use finesse with a hammer-
For reference- my forks are open 50mm Marzocci’s
PVC Spring Spacers:
I made some pvc preload spacers from what I had: 1 ½” and they didn’t work the OD was too big by a few mm’s. (I had 1 ½” at home at the time)...... I then went at it from a detailed standpoint- the stock spacer is: 47.8mm in length, 46mm OD, and 38.7mm in ID, wall thickness is 3.6mm. . I considered the minimum ID being that of the OD of the spring guide on the dampner tube. (33.8mm). I checked a chart online for specs on PVC sch 40 and 80 and found that 1 1/4” Sch 40 was the closest to the stock spacer that would work: 42.16mm OD, 35mm ID. SO 1 ¼” SCH 40 PVC is what to use.
I cut spacers- to 43mm length (4.8mm shorter) which should result in more static and rider sag as suggested above. I will check this weekend as to the results: measurements and some test riding…
PS- (blablablaaaa) I could have taken 5mm off the stock spacers to achieve the same thing- but wanted to keep them if I ever wanted or needed to switch back- also you can't buy them from Husky- there's no part number. So I just wanted to ensure I could make ones that work without messing with the OEM ones. If anyone finds the "exact" tube to make spacers from as OEM let us know (but 1 1/4" is as close as you can commonly find from what I gathered- and there shouldn't be a problem with them I just usually try to be more exact- if I had a lathe- I would have taken the 1 1/2" down a few thousandths and worked with that...
Also- side note: I changed my fork seals- I found one of my outer tubes had a flat spot near the dust seal seat- from an impact at some point… I used one of my BIG sockets that are slightly smaller than the ID of the outer tube and had someone hold the tube as I lightly tapped the socket with a hammer to round the dent- so to speak- its not “perfect” but its darn close you can’t see or feel the flat spot anymore… Just thought I’d mention that because I would think it more common than not- and it appears to have fixed it. Just have to use finesse with a hammer-
HUSKYnXJnWI
Husqvarna
AA Class
I haven't measured static and rider sag ,after the 5mm decrease in preload to the forks- too busy. But I have tested it in multi- terrain and found the front to compress more in corners and sticking turns better. IN real choppy rough stuff at pace I noticed the fork compressing a bit too fast and added 4 clicks to the compression. Now it is real balenced between plush, stability, and nimble in turns. Loving it. Thanks Dwight!
Rob578
Husqvarna
AA Class
Isn't this backward? Less preload = more sag??Reporting back...
I cut spacers- to 43mm length (4.8mm shorter) which should result in less static and rider sag as suggested above. I will check this weekend as to the results: measurements and some test riding…
HUSKYnXJnWI
Husqvarna
AA Class
Yep- I miss-spoke- thanks! I edited it.
My Suspension is Awesome btw... although if you have it set up for offroad well and throw an MX track into the mix: definately add alot of compression in the pit- I blew through and bottomed out on every substantial landing- not that I do mx stuff to often. Wrists, ankles, and crotch will absorb the rest- no crashes but now I understand the need for barpads on MX tracks
pvduke
Husqvarna
Pro Class
no offence and unless im reading this wrong, and im probably going to be widly unpopular here and SORRY if this rubs anyone the wrong way but......there is no "forumula" for dirt bike suspensions. there's too many variables and not enough constants for a forumla to work.
My recomendations?
suspension adjustng aint about math (for the average rider). numbers have VERY little to do with it unless you use a shock dyno or build stacks. if something needs a tweak one dont add .02mm or some such, one makes a small adjustment, a turn of the lock ring or one click ata time, a cc of oil..... then?
one retests. a lot. exhuasting that setting before making another change making mental notes.
i settum up using the manual as a baseline. then tweak from there with clickers and preload. then service both ends after 3 hours (which 90% of people dont do before they send it to a tuner for revalve) and marvel at the difference in ride quality . and barring any glaring defects or missmatched components (grossly too heavy/light a rider for the factory set up) it's usually pretty good. then when it's dialed ill record a baseline. all this takes about two hours of dedicated testing with a warmed up and WELL broken in and service suspension...not on the fly fiddling with a new bike. 99% of riding a bike is about feedback through our senses. it'll tell you what it wants if you listen.
rules of fact:
* springs hold up the bike, determine bulk of ride height and affect geometry/attack angles.
* dampers control wheel speed and affect ride quailty.
(fast wheel speed = clickers are out. slow wheel speed = clickers are in.)
trying to "math into" a set up aint gonna work for every rider/bike, or even two alike. there's simply no getting around TITS and good old fashioned trial and error. the final numbers (baseline) should be just that, a product of experimentation and taped on your bike somewhere, there's just too many variables for one set of number rules to apply to suspension adjusting and the riders. some like it soft, regardless of the numbers or prescribed spring, and, vice versa. and no one set up will really work everywhere perfectly, regardless of the math.
ride your bike into a set-up. feel what it's telling you, listen and feel for the feed back then anylise what it wants. make one click at a time. one lock ring turn atta time. be slow and methodical and burn a few hours really listening what yer scoots saying to you through feed back.
i've had guys tell me i need stiffer springs, softer springs, more fluid, less fluid... this and that...i just nod. then mash it.
My recomendations?
suspension adjustng aint about math (for the average rider). numbers have VERY little to do with it unless you use a shock dyno or build stacks. if something needs a tweak one dont add .02mm or some such, one makes a small adjustment, a turn of the lock ring or one click ata time, a cc of oil..... then?
one retests. a lot. exhuasting that setting before making another change making mental notes.
i settum up using the manual as a baseline. then tweak from there with clickers and preload. then service both ends after 3 hours (which 90% of people dont do before they send it to a tuner for revalve) and marvel at the difference in ride quality . and barring any glaring defects or missmatched components (grossly too heavy/light a rider for the factory set up) it's usually pretty good. then when it's dialed ill record a baseline. all this takes about two hours of dedicated testing with a warmed up and WELL broken in and service suspension...not on the fly fiddling with a new bike. 99% of riding a bike is about feedback through our senses. it'll tell you what it wants if you listen.
rules of fact:
* springs hold up the bike, determine bulk of ride height and affect geometry/attack angles.
* dampers control wheel speed and affect ride quailty.
(fast wheel speed = clickers are out. slow wheel speed = clickers are in.)
trying to "math into" a set up aint gonna work for every rider/bike, or even two alike. there's simply no getting around TITS and good old fashioned trial and error. the final numbers (baseline) should be just that, a product of experimentation and taped on your bike somewhere, there's just too many variables for one set of number rules to apply to suspension adjusting and the riders. some like it soft, regardless of the numbers or prescribed spring, and, vice versa. and no one set up will really work everywhere perfectly, regardless of the math.
ride your bike into a set-up. feel what it's telling you, listen and feel for the feed back then anylise what it wants. make one click at a time. one lock ring turn atta time. be slow and methodical and burn a few hours really listening what yer scoots saying to you through feed back.
i've had guys tell me i need stiffer springs, softer springs, more fluid, less fluid... this and that...i just nod. then mash it.
Picklito
Husqvarna
Pro Class
Reporting back...
For reference- my forks are open 50mm Marzocci’s
PVC Spring Spacers:
I made some pvc preload spacers from what I had: 1 ½” and they didn’t work the OD was too big by a few mm’s. (I had 1 ½” at home at the time)...... I then went at it from a detailed standpoint- the stock spacer is: 47.8mm in length, 46mm OD, and 38.7mm in ID, wall thickness is 3.6mm. . I considered the minimum ID being that of the OD of the spring guide on the dampner tube. (33.8mm). I checked a chart online for specs on PVC sch 40 and 80 and found that 1 1/4” Sch 40 was the closest to the stock spacer that would work: 42.16mm OD, 35mm ID. SO 1 ¼” SCH 40 PVC is what to use.
I cut spacers- to 43mm length (4.8mm shorter) which should result in more static and rider sag as suggested above. I will check this weekend as to the results: measurements and some test riding…
Thanks! I have the same bike and I'm pretty happy with the stock rear but it's a little tall and stiff up front. I'm 160 in the birthday suit. You?
HUSKYnXJnWI
Husqvarna
AA Class
Hey Picklito-
I weigh ~200lbs.
I would take measurements of your sags to verify your needs. You probably won't be able to go with less preload (won't do enough) you'll end up with no preload. You might have to go to lighter springs. But I'd go by sag settings.
PvDuke- I don't think this information is suggesting there is not an art to suspension set up/ valving/ personal settings. I think Vinduro is giving some baselines in terms of selecting the correct spring wgt. Many set up baseline sags based on manual suggestions for the rear spring and often don't know what to do with the forks- this information helps them get closer to an acceptable range if nothing else- to then fine tune from there. I like my results- and was pretty happy before: I basically decreased spring resistance and increased compression which resulted in more fork travel. Seems even more plush and settles in turns better. I have some understanding of suspension but certainly am still learning compared to many out there and I found this helpfull.
I weigh ~200lbs.
I would take measurements of your sags to verify your needs. You probably won't be able to go with less preload (won't do enough) you'll end up with no preload. You might have to go to lighter springs. But I'd go by sag settings.
PvDuke- I don't think this information is suggesting there is not an art to suspension set up/ valving/ personal settings. I think Vinduro is giving some baselines in terms of selecting the correct spring wgt. Many set up baseline sags based on manual suggestions for the rear spring and often don't know what to do with the forks- this information helps them get closer to an acceptable range if nothing else- to then fine tune from there. I like my results- and was pretty happy before: I basically decreased spring resistance and increased compression which resulted in more fork travel. Seems even more plush and settles in turns better. I have some understanding of suspension but certainly am still learning compared to many out there and I found this helpfull.
pvduke
Husqvarna
Pro Class
good stuff and if it works i cant aruge with that...again, i placed my disclaimer at the begnining of my post...no disrespect to the OP etc...its all good and if it works by all means run it fer sure...and again, sorry boys if i came off harsh etc...just an old school POV and stuff and junk...carry on. mreeep!
Picklito
Husqvarna
Pro Class
Same bike (09 TE 450) HUSKYnNJnWI gets 34/70 front sag I get 31/50. We both have stock .45 springs. I guess you could argue that we're close on free sag, which really should be bike weight and preload. Perhaps I'v got more preload. Will check that going in. As for rider sag, I could barely even push them down to 70mm.