Splitting the cases, do I need all the special tools? any advice welcome!

[MATPOC]

My other thread got long and this is new topic, but just so I don't have to explain the whole thing over again, here's a link to my original rebuild, Newfoundland/Labrador trip and balance shaft bearing failure.

http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/new-guy-with-te610-questions.86895/

I'm going to split the cases and replace all bearings this time, shaft and drive gear also have some wear so they are likely getting replaced along with whatever else I might find it needs. I love the bike, also it has sentimental value so it's likely to stay with me for a while, so I'm gonna do it right this time but on the budget...

 

[MATPOC]

got cases to separate about 1/2" and now stuck, everything moves, cases wiggle, crank and all transmission shafts turn but I can't get any further

 

[Spice Weasel]

This might be helpful - http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/home-made-press-to-remove-crankshaft-from-te450.78992/#post-514150 <click 4 link

 

[Theo]

When I splitted the cases of my YZ250 I used a simpler design for the puller:

I just turned the two nuts indicated by the arrows. By doing so, I was also able to make te pull even by turning more either the one on the LH side or the other.
I could have also put something on the end of the crankshaft to protect it (no damage occurred anyway in my case).
Maybe it can work for your bike, too.

 

[MATPOC]

Seems it bound up at transmission, i cam push the crank by hand and it moves a bit in and out.

Gonna read the manual and take another turn at it with the home made puller.
Now on the flipside, how do you assemble? something similar to pull crank back in to place?

 

[Theo]

Maybe the cases are not parallel to each other. It could be a good idea to push them back a little in order to realign them and then restart splitting, if they are not beign splitted evenly.
Or maybe you haven't removed one of he little many screws which keep the cases together and it's just loosened but not removed and prevents the splitting. Sometimes people say that it happened and that they wasted minutes forcing the cases without success.
If you are going to replace the bearings, I'd really like to give you some pieces of advice. Are you going to do that?

 

[MATPOC]

Maybe the cases are not parallel to each other. It could be a good idea to push them back a little in order to realign them and then restart splitting, if they are not beign splitted evenly.
Or maybe you haven't removed one of he little many screws which keep the cases together and it's just loosened but not removed and prevents the splitting. Sometimes people say that it happened and that they wasted minutes forcing the cases without success.
If you are going to replace the bearings, I'd really like to give you some pieces of advice. Are you going to do that?

Cases are parallel and everything is moving free, was worried about binding sideways and bending things so I kept checking if all shafts turn free, backing off and pushing cases back together and out again, never force stuff when crank is involved, very easy to bend them
Not my first engine rebuild but generally I don't go in to bottom ends unless I have to.

I got to change bearings on the balance shaft, they totally failed, figured it's only extra couple hundred to do them all

I got access to some blind pullers, used one before to replace needle roller bearings on my KTM clutch shaft, they are stacked 2 deep and I managed to pull them with some patience and heat

 

[Theo]

Well, if you have split the cases some other times I don't know whether my tips would be useful: probably, you can do that better than me.
Anyway, I just wanted to tell you that:
-if you sweat the bearings in and can't put the cases in an owen, I suggest that you heat each whole case with a heat gun and then use the propane torch only on the bearings seat, so that the temperature difference will be lowered. I also suggest that you put more heat on the big parts with a smaller surface/volume ratio because they have less heat exchange,
-if you sweat the bearings in, remember that you only have some seconds to install them, then they wil be warmed up by the cases, expand fast and be stuck in their seats. It happened to this guy: the first one went in good; the second got stuck:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WeUoyEgfrE

if that happens, IMHO you can save the bearing if you manage to push it out by pushing on the outer race.
-check whether the bearings retaining plates need thread locker and test it (thread lockers sometimes don't work on certain metals like aluminum alloys), because you won't be able to tighten those screws unles you split the cases again.

 

[MATPOC]

cases split!!

should have checked the manual, it was a damn vent tube that was in the way!

still don't see where the plastic bearing cage came from, there are still pieces of it in the motor, will get all new bearings, I suspect the shop that did the repairs last time just forced everything together, damaging some of the bearings, same as they did with starter gear

 

[MATPOC]

Well, if you have split the cases some other times I don't know whether my tips would be useful: probably, you can do that better than me.
.

I'v done few, most of my bikes split horizontal, but I have few vintage Vespas that split vertically with bearings that need to be pressed out to split the case and drawn back in on assembly, we usually bake the cases in the oven and freeze bearings in the fridge, also freeze cranks to install, but I avoid using the torch.

Few years ago (like 10-15, before Facebook) there was a very active vintage scooter forum, we had one guy asking why his crank bearings failed 100 miles after rebuild, after few questions turned out that another fella from the forum who was constantly ragging on the shops for charging too much and offering cheap bottom dollar rebuilds has done that motor, apparently he would turn the bearing cherry red with a torch before slipping it on the crank shaft... I always think of that, how hot is too hot before you anneal the heat treatment, one slip of the torch and you are heating the surface extra 100 degrees, doesn't take much to ruin it. Baking in the oven usually pretty safe, just bang the case half on the wood and bearings fall right out. Slip the new ones in right from the fridge. Also have the bearing driver set handy in case you need to tap one in quickly before it heats up

 

[Theo]

I also think that one needs to be careful with the torch.
A lot of people use the torch on the cases and stop heating when water dropped on it starts sizzling (like I did). Not a very good way to make sure that the temperature is safe for the metal.
I don't know whether a bearing can be annealed if kept at a high temperature for just a minute, but I think that warping is a definetely possible. Besides, bearings manufacturers advise against doing that.

 

[Rotax_655]

the flames should not use them
better hot air with high temperature phon 200/300 degrees Celsius for carter and freezer -18 for bearings

 

[MATPOC]

Parts ordered, another $650 bill (after spending close to $1200 first time I fixed the motor) hope it's good for a while after this

 

[MATPOC]

Got some of the parts this week, more on the way from Hall's (those guys rule!) Decided to replace shift drum indexing thingymajiggy, it looks to have been gouged up and polished along with a retainer that keeps shift drum from floating left-right, hope this will cure the shifting issues once and for all...

UPS has the package arriving Wednesday, too bad I will be in FL watching the grass grow...
Hoping in couple weeks I can get back to this and finally start assembly, work has been crazy so I barely come near the bike, will take lots of pics when I'm finally there

 

[Redrockmania]

When I splitted the cases of my YZ250 I used a simpler design for the puller:
View attachment 82665
I just turned the two nuts indicated by the arrows. By doing so, I was also able to make te pull even by turning more either the one on the LH side or the other.
I could have also put something on the end of the crankshaft to protect it (no damage occurred anyway in my case).
Maybe it can work for your bike, too.

When I splitted the cases of my YZ250 I used a simpler design for the puller:
View attachment 82665
I just turned the two nuts indicated by the arrows. By doing so, I was also able to make te pull even by turning more either the one on the LH side or the other.
I could have also put something on the end of the crankshaft to protect it (no damage occurred anyway in my case).
Maybe it can work for your bike, too.

My solution to protecting the end of the crankshaft was to put a Welch Plug of suitable size over the end of the crankshaft as I tightened my engine case splitting tool. The welch plug is made of softer metal than the crankshaft end and rotates as you tighten the bolt in the tool, thus preventing damage. I fabricated my own engine case splitting tool based on the design of the expensive factory tool. I had to apply considerable tightening pressure of the tool to split the cases.

 

[MATPOC]

Last of the transmission parts just came from Hall's, those that had to be ordered from Italy.
Tonight I will start assembly, probably just cleaning cases and replacing some bearings, perfect rainy day activity...

 

[MATPOC]

Hate when work gets in the way of play... had to work late, still managed to sneak out for a minute, grab the cases and head, and throw it in a sonic tank. Later pulled valves and just before I left (this is after 11pm) vaporblasted head and valves

loads of carbon build up from worn out slide needle

not any more!

 

[MATPOC]

vaporblasted left half... still need 1 1/2" socket to remove crank form the right half.

 

[MATPOC]

Seems someone misplaced a thrust washer from 1'st gear, it just wasn't there when I took it apart! (#11 on a picture)
part # 1513 71401 been discontinued and superseded, perhaps it was the reason for shifting trouble??