Should I change the voltage regulator?

[motranqui]

More ideas...

May be we’re a bit wrong. I think that to take resistance between red wire and the blue wire from the VR plug has no sense. First because blue wire from VR plug is connected to nowhere when we unpluged the VR, and, even if I connect blue wire to ground, make sense that resistance is infinity (as I think there has not to be connection between both wires)

Nevertheless, if I take the measurements from the plug that came from the generator itself (under the tank, as Sooter says), the blue wire comes directly from the generator… and this is the “blue wire” that I think I have to check


So now I hope that the generator is fine

 

[Sooter]

Your first and second tests failed. You should not have infinite ohms between the two wires. The second test should indicate ohms between .3 and .6 ohms (ideally .4 or .3). This does not provide conclusive evidence however. THIS NEXT STEP IS VERY IMPORTANT. With the bike running and the VR Unplugged: measure the amount of AC voltage between the yellow wires on the VR connector. Black (ground) meter probe should be in one of the yellow wire connectors and Red (Positive) in another yellow wire connector. Do this for each of the yellow wire connectors! You should have somewhere around 25-30 AC volts at idle and 60+ Ac volts with RPMS over 3000. Do this test and report back. Thanks.

All the best.

 

[motranqui]

Your first and second tests failed. You should not have infinite ohms between the two wires. The second test should indicate ohms between .3 and .6 ohms (ideally .4 or .3). This does not provide conclusive evidence however. THIS NEXT STEP IS VERY IMPORTANT. With the bike running and the VR Unplugged: measure the amount of AC voltage between the yellow wires on the VR connector. Black (ground) meter probe should be in one of the yellow wire connectors and Red (Positive) in another yellow wire connector. Do this for each of the yellow wire connectors! You should have somewhere around 25-30 AC volts at idle and 60+ Ac volts with RPMS over 3000. Do this test and report back. Thanks.

All the best.

Thanks, Sooter

As you can see in post number 41, I admit that I was taking the measurements from the incorrect blue wire... that's the reason why I got infinite.

As soon as I have time, I'll check what you say

 

[motranqui]

Your first and second tests failed. You should not have infinite ohms between the two wires. The second test should indicate ohms between .3 and .6 ohms (ideally .4 or .3). This does not provide conclusive evidence however. THIS NEXT STEP IS VERY IMPORTANT. With the bike running and the VR Unplugged: measure the amount of AC voltage between the yellow wires on the VR connector. Black (ground) meter probe should be in one of the yellow wire connectors and Red (Positive) in another yellow wire connector. Do this for each of the yellow wire connectors! You should have somewhere around 25-30 AC volts at idle and 60+ Ac volts with RPMS over 3000. Do this test and report back. Thanks.

All the best.

Hi

These are the figures. Aproximatly:
-At idle, 22V
-At 3.000 rpm, 40V
-At 4.000 rpm, 55V

What do you think? The figures are quite stable. I mean, for instance, at idle figures goes from 21,5V to 22,5V

 

[motranqui]

Finally I removed the fuel tank to take the measurements in the right connector. Between red and blue wires, 105 ohms, which is quite good

So I’m tempted to say that the generator is OK and all the issues comes from a damaged voltage regulator. Let's wait for Sooter's opinion, though.

I took the opportunity to check the electric fan, and it works fine.


I’m still waiting the VR from the dealer...

 

[Trenchcoat85]

Hi

These are the figures. Aproximatly:
-At idle, 22V
-At 3.000 rpm, 40V
-At 4.000 rpm, 55V

What do you think? The figures are quite stable. I mean, for instance, at idle figures goes from 21,5V to 22,5V

your stator is fine- if you did all 3 phases (all the yellow wires)

charge the battery. confirm it's got 12.5v or more. connect everything back up. start the bike. measure the voltage while the bike is running- does it get up to 14v? yes: you're good. no: replace the regulator.

 

[Sooter]

Mostranqui, yes your stator is good...those are the correct AC measurements. Indeed, you need a new regulator or your wiring is damaged somewhere and yes a little bit of wire damage could cause a big charging problem...trust me Ive been through it. 3 brand new VRs later (that are now fried) and a wire replacement, the bike is working as it should.

Good news is that you can narrow it down to 2 things and not the most important component of the charging system. Before you install the new VR check all of your wiring! Specifically the last 10 inches leading up to the VR connector. Your connector could also be damaged. If you install VR with damaged wiring it will get damaged. Good luck and keep in touch.

 

[motranqui]

Hi
Bad news: I put the new VR and nothing new has happened. At the beginning the voltage charge was around 13,20V but after 2 minutes it even drop to 12,20 V. The battery was at 12,50V. In fact I put the old VR and the figures was similar (even better ones, as the charge figures hold on 13,20V all the time)

I'm a bit disappointed and for the moment I surrender.

The wires look fine all the way I can see them.
The wires (specially the yellow ones) get really hot, as well as the VR

 

[Trenchcoat85]

All the major components of your charging system seem to be good (stator/flywheel, regulator, battery).

if this is true, the problem has to be in the "stuff" between them (IOW, the wiring, fuses, relays, connections); use a multi-meter and logic to find it.

I'd start with the DC output measured as close to the regulator as possible (bike idling). and follow it until the battery. also, if you've got a big short, the wire itself might feel hot.

Dont worry about the 3phase (yellow wires) or the regulator getting hot, if they're okay otherwise. The alternator on our bikes are putting out full power all the time the bike is running- assuming the Italians used a shunt regulator.

[edit: sheesh, I keep loosing track of what forum I'm in. Anyways... 310's have permanent-magnet rotors for the alternator field, and a shunt regulator. I dunno about a 630; it may have field windings controlled by the regulator- which is a different animal]

 

[motranqui]

Today I’ve managed to take the figures directly from the red VR plug wire. The difference have been of 0,50V approximately (I’ve measured 13,80 – 14,00 V at idle)
I wonder if this is normal or not. Should I get the same figures if I take them from the VR plug or from the battery? Because the VR red wire don't go directly to the battery...

 

[Trenchcoat85]

Today I’ve managed to take the figures directly from the red VR plug wire. The difference have been of 0,50V approximately (I’ve measured 13,80 – 14,00 V at idle)
I wonder if this is normal or not. Should I get the same figures if I take them from the VR plug or from the battery? Because the VR red wire don't go directly to the battery...

yes- you should see that same voltage at the battery. there should be very, very, very little loss of voltage- depending on how hard the battery is charging. but I'd guess 0.2volts difference.

find where the voltages drops... and you probably have found your problem

 

[motranqui]

Yes, I'm afraid that I'm going to have to hire service from detective Colombo

 

[Trenchcoat85]

hell, if you got the proper voltage on one side of the wire and 30cm later, on the other side of the same circuit- you're getting a big voltage drop... you've narrowed it down to where you should be able to find it easily.

Peter Falk is dead, dude. you can do this.

 

[Sooter]

From my experience, I had to change out 3 different VR's because they all fried upon testing. Even though you cannot tell from visual indicators, the VR connector plug could be bad! After I got mine professionally rewired and purchased a new VR it worked perfectly. I suggest you also purchase heat grease from a computer store and apply it to the rear of the VR and VR frame plate. This will help with heat dissipation and will will prevent current loss due to heat.

For the time being, DO NOT test new VR's they may overheat and break. Believe me, if anyone knows this, it would be me

 

[motranqui]

Thank you, mates. I think I hit the nail in the head! Please, look the pic.



The burnt connector is the one that came from the VR. Of course, I checked it and there is resistance between red connector to the VR plug and red connector from the Solenoid starter plug.

The point now is to know why that connector has been burnt. Because of VR put out a 20-30A current as KXCam22 suggest and the wire can´t stand more than 10A? Because the VR red wire has frayed, took contact with Ground and burnt Solenoid starter connector? Because of…?

Now I have to change the connector for a new one. Change it is not a big deal, but let’s see how it works as part of the white plastic piece that surround the connector has melted. I’ll do my best and I’ll report back. Any suggestions are very welcome. BTW, I don't know which piece is number one, as is not in the workshop manual. Anybody know?

I tested the solenoid starter according to work shop and I've got different figures. I've got infinite resistance instead of 3-6 ohmios. May be I made the test wrong... may be the solenoid is in bad conditions...

 

[Caboose]

BTW, I don't know which piece is number one, as is not in the workshop manual. Anybody know?

My guess is, its the rollover sensor eliminator. Or at least its plugged in the rollover sensors connector.

 

[Trenchcoat85]

Thank you, mates. I think I hit the nail in the head! Please, look the pic.

View attachment 71441

The burnt connector is the one that came from the VR. Of course, I checked it and there is resistance between red connector to the VR plug and red connector from the Solenoid starter plug.

The point now is to know why that connector has been burnt. Because of VR put out a 20-30A current as KXCam22 suggest and the wire can´t stand more than 10A? Because the VR red wire has frayed, took contact with Ground and burnt Solenoid starter connector? Because of…?

Now I have to change the connector for a new one. Change it is not a big deal, but let’s see how it works as part of the white plastic piece that surround the connector has melted. I’ll do my best and I’ll report back. Any suggestions are very welcome. BTW, I don't know which piece is number one, as is not in the workshop manual. Anybody know?

I tested the solenoid starter according to work shop and I've got different figures. I've got infinite resistance instead of 3-6 ohmios. May be I made the test wrong... may be the solenoid is in bad conditions...

• edit: comments delayed for a bit until the snark-level drops

• edit2: if you didn't short the ring terminal yourself, you've got another problem (re: arc on ring terminal)

• edit3: get a new starter relay too; you probably can't clean that terminal up enough.

• edit4: go over ALL of your wiring; use dielectric grease. Tighten the contacts.

• edit5: seriously? you couldn't see that fvcked up connector even with it plugged in?? hell, I can smell carbon & ozone from here.

• edit6: in the manual, when they tell you to replace a component after a test result, they are assuming you made the very basic checks first. Which includes a good visual inspection- that would've netted you 3 electrical shorts and a bad relay plug. You probably have more.

 

[motranqui]

Good news
I installed a new connector and I sanded and cleaned carefully the solenoid starter connector . Guess what…

14,50V at idle and 14;00V at 3.000rpm



So, I encourage all the ones that have charging issues, to search for frayed wires at the VR plug area and also to look at the solenoid starter plug.

Now, to avoid that it happens again, I wonder (as KXCam22 suggests) if a direct wire from VR plug to the battery is the final solution ...

 

[motranqui]

• edit: comments delayed for a bit until the snark-level drops Sorry, I don't undertand slang, set phrases, expresions, humor... my English is basic

• edit2: if you didn't short the ring terminal yourself, you've got another problem (re: arc on ring terminal) I asume the ring terminal is the white one that plugs to the solenoid starter. Am I right? What do you mean by "short"... electric or dimension

• edit3: get a new starter relay too; you probably can't clean that terminal up enough. Yes, I can. I have a jeweler's loupe 7 increases, a lot of patience... and so I guarantee you was perfect

• edit4: go over ALL of your wiring; use dielectric grease. Tighten the contacts. OK

• edit5: seriously? you couldn't see that fvcked up connector even with it plugged in?? hell, I can smell carbon & ozone from here. Yes, the only way to see if the connector is burnt or not is by disconnect it from the solenoid starter. And it smell "burnt", yes, but only if you put your nose very very close to it

• edit6: in the manual, when they tell you to replace a component after a test result, they are assuming you made the very basic checks first. Which includes a good visual inspection- that would've netted you 3 electrical shorts and a bad relay plug. You probably have more. Do I have I 3 electrical shorts? I don't understand, sorry

Sorry, I dind't read these coments before I sent my last comment (number 58). I answer you in blue colour

 

[Sooter]

Good stuff man glad you got it sorted. I do have a starter relay for sale if you need it!