Should I change the voltage regulator?

[Sooter]

Honda charges In excess of 200 for theirs...unless the dealer I spoke to was being dishonest.

 

[Rotax_655]

I too have had a beginning rupture .
I have since found a new path for the cables

 

[Sooter]

Good thing you did. You just avoided a major headache

 

[motranqui]

Chapter II

After a 200 km ride, I checked the battery and I’ve got bad news: Charging system was charging at not more than 12,30V and the battery was only 12,38V (In the morning it had 12,57V)

I saw that the voltage regulator wires at the bottom -where they are close to the battery- was kind of smash. I removed all the insulated tape that make them to be together and I notice that there was two tiny fraying points in two wires.

I have the theory that may be the battery can smash the wires –specially if you lean the bike to the right-. If you add this the fact that the insulated tape keeps them together this can increase the hot in the wires… what is not good

So I took the decision to keep the wires without any insulated tape around them and based on Rotax’s idea, I put them the way you see in the pic.
As all around the wires is plastic and they have not contact at all among them, some issues are avoided



Next day, after a 190km ride, the battery had charged up to 12,64V. Before starting the trip, I checked charging system and I got 13,50V at idle and 13,10V at 4.000rpm .


I guess now I'll protect the wires with some kind of plastic pipe... instead of insulated tape.

 

[bushwa]

I too have had a beginning rupture .

I have since found a new path for the cables

I'd cut back the insulation to take a look. Mine didn't look any more frayed than yours from the outside, but inside the individual wires were a melted mess.

 

[motranqui]

So may be the insulation makes the role of a "coat" to the wires... and kind of melt them due to the hot can not spread...

 

[KXcam22]

That looks like possibly a manufacturing defect to me. If the wire-loom maker machine pulls and stretches the wires they can create a high resistance spot, which then gets hot. Cam.

 

[motranqui]

An update. I think my case is weird.

Yesterday, after 130km ride, the battery has lower charge that at the beginning (just the same happened two weeks ago). Today, after a 100km ride, battery has increased the charge. It means, sometimes the charging system works fine while others not. But not 100% right. I mean, today, after the 100km ride, at idle I’ve got 13,50V while at 4.000 rpm 12,80V. It seems poor figures.

I also checked the resistance in the regulator plug. I’m not an electric specialist, so I’m not sure if I took the right measurements. Anyway these were the figures:

-Between red and blue wire, infinite (manual says 100 Ohm +/- 20%)
-Between yellow wires, figures moves quickly between 0,8 and 2,5 Ohm (manual says 0,21 +/-15%)
-Between yellow wires and ground, infinite (manual says infinite)

So, the first and second are completely out of range… what could means that generator is out of order.

This is what manual says about charging issues:

Generator does not provide charge or is not providing enough charge
1. Cable arriving to the voltage regulator badly connected or shorted: connect correctly or replace
2. Voltage regulator faulty: Replace
3. Generator coil faulty: Replace

 

[motranqui]

I'd cut back the insulation to take a look. Mine didn't look any more frayed than yours from the outside, but inside the individual wires were a melted mess.

And the bike runs with all that mess???

 

[rickcj7]

If your battery is fully charged it will cut back.

 

[Rotax_655]

Chapter II

After a 200 km ride, I checked the battery and I’ve got bad news: Charging system was charging at not more than 12,30V and the battery was only 12,38V (In the morning it had 12,57V)

I saw that the voltage regulator wires at the bottom -where they are close to the battery- was kind of smash. I removed all the insulated tape that make them to be together and I notice that there was two tiny fraying points in two wires.

I have the theory that may be the battery can smash the wires –specially if you lean the bike to the right-. If you add this the fact that the insulated tape keeps them together this can increase the hot in the wires… what is not good

So I took the decision to keep the wires without any insulated tape around them and based on Rotax’s idea, I put them the way you see in the pic.
As all around the wires is plastic and they have not contact at all among them, some issues are avoided

View attachment 68866

Next day, after a 190km ride, the battery had charged up to 12,64V. Before starting the trip, I checked charging system and I got 13,50V at idle and 13,10V at 4.000rpm .


I guess now I'll protect the wires with some kind of plastic pipe... instead of insulated tape.

because your battery is mounted in reverse?
the positive fi is usually to the right

 

[motranqui]

If your battery is fully charged it will cut back.

Is not fully charged. In fact, it had 12,52V and after 130Km it had 12,47. I think batterly at full charge is 12,75V aprox.
When I drive the TE310, always the battery charge increases...

 

[motranqui]

because your battery is mounted in reverse?
the positive fi is usually to the right

That's right, the battery is the other way around. But the positive wire is conected to the positive battery screw... So I think it has nothing to do.
BTW, I don't know why the previous owner of the bike had the battery that way...

 

[motranqui]

Bad news: I keep having charging problems. Today, after a 170 km ride, my battery has only 12,26V
When I check the charging figures, goes from 12,20 to 13,40 at idle. When I increase the rpm the charging figures ALWAYS goes lower (I mean, if I get 13,4 at idle, I get 12,70 at 3.000rpm) Never 14V or more
I’ve just order a new VR, just in case…
Any other suggestion apart from the possibility the generator is broken?. is there an easy way to check all the charging system?? (I’m not good in electric issues…)

Thank you

BTW, now, both all the wires from the VR and the VR itself gets really hot. I can't keep my hand on the VR

 

[Raaron12]

Motran I am somewhat confused as to why you are going through all this trouble when there may not be a problem at all. You have never had an issue where the charging system was not working effeciently enough to have the bike not start. The one ride where you lost voltage is a little concerning but if you continue to monitor it it could be nothing or just be due to battery or age of the battery. It is good that this caused you to trace the wiring finding the wires rubbing and replacing them. I had a similar issue with my cbr600rr and ended up tearing into it the same way. They are known to have an issue with the VR as well and I thought that may be the issue. The VR had a poor design in which they placed it right by the header. With that bike however it would sometimes start sometimes not start the gauges would go haywire and even cut out when riding once or twice. After going through all the wiring and thinking the VR was going bad it turned out to just be the battery. As someone said in the other thread linked and after looking at the picture of the husky VR I beleive the 2003-2004 cbr600rr VR may work as a direct replacement but I would do a little more research to confirm. I don't want to see you make a mountain out of a molehill or throw a bunch of parts at the bike only to end up with the same charging results you already have.

 

[Sooter]

You must test the 3 yellow wires of the generator connector which is under the fuel tank. You should have a reading of .3 to .6 ohms for any and all combinations of the 3 wires. There is also a 2 wire connector that is attached to the 3 wires...those 2 wires should give you a reading of around 95 ohms. Bike must be off when performing these tests...let us know the results before we do additional tests.

 

[motranqui]

You must test the 3 yellow wires of the generator connector which is under the fuel tank. You should have a reading of .3 to .6 ohms for any and all combinations of the 3 wires. There is also a 2 wire connector that is attached to the 3 wires...those 2 wires should give you a reading of around 95 ohms. Bike must be off when performing these tests...let us know the results before we do additional tests.

Hi
As you can see in post number 28, I got these measurements from de VR plug:
-Between red and blue wire, infinite (manual says 100 Ohm +/- 20%)
-Between yellow wires, figures moves quickly between 0,8 and 2,5 Ohm (manual says 0,21 +/-15%). I mean, I can read 0,8, 1,2, 2,5, 1,4, etc.
-Between yellow wires and ground, infinite (manual says infinite)

I prefer not remove the fuel tank if not necessary.
What do you think of these figures? Can you reach a conclusion based on them?
I'm planning to plug the new VR and see if charge figures reach 14,0V when I get it from the dealer but I feel fear of breaking it if generator is damaged.

Thank you

 

[Trenchcoat85]

Hi
As you can see in post number 28, I got these measurements from de VR plug:
-Between red and blue wire, infinite (manual says 100 Ohm +/- 20%)
-Between yellow wires, figures moves quickly between 0,8 and 2,5 Ohm (manual says 0,21 +/-15%). I mean, I can read 0,8, 1,2, 2,5, 1,4, etc.
-Between yellow wires and ground, infinite (manual says infinite)

I prefer not remove the fuel tank if not necessary.
What do you think of these figures? Can you reach a conclusion based on them?
I'm planning to plug the new VR and see if charge figures reach 14,0V when I get it from the dealer but I feel fear of breaking it if generator is damaged.

Thank you

• 1st test: the red & blue wires failed the test obviously. if you can't find a fault (open wire)- replace the regulator.
• 2nd test: the resistance measurements for the yellow wires (the 3-phase stator windings) are fine. your meter probably has 0.8 ohms just holding the two leads together. your measurements are close enough.
• 3rd test: your stator windings (yellow) are not grounded (which is good)

battery voltage: when you get readings of 12.3v, 12.6v, 13.1v etc when the bike is running- your charging systems is not working and you're reading the battery voltage only. With a fully charged battery you should see at least 13.8v, and 14.2v is better (14.5v would be close to a maximum) when the bike is running; with a nominal electrical load.

a bad regulator can ruin a battery; a bad battery can ruin a regulator. Bad wiring can do both.

good luck.

 

[motranqui]

Motran I am somewhat confused as to why you are going through all this trouble when there may not be a problem at all. You have never had an issue where the charging system was not working effeciently enough to have the bike not start. The one ride where you lost voltage is a little concerning but if you continue to monitor it it could be nothing or just be due to battery or age of the battery. It is good that this caused you to trace the wiring finding the wires rubbing and replacing them. I had a similar issue with my cbr600rr and ended up tearing into it the same way. They are known to have an issue with the VR as well and I thought that may be the issue. The VR had a poor design in which they placed it right by the header. With that bike however it would sometimes start sometimes not start the gauges would go haywire and even cut out when riding once or twice. After going through all the wiring and thinking the VR was going bad it turned out to just be the battery. As someone said in the other thread linked and after looking at the picture of the husky VR I beleive the 2003-2004 cbr600rr VR may work as a direct replacement but I would do a little more research to confirm. I don't want to see you make a mountain out of a molehill or throw a bunch of parts at the bike only to end up with the same charging results you already have.

Hi

Yes, it's wise to think that the problem can come from the battery. In fact I had that issue in my TE310. But the TE630 battery is good. How do I know it? Because if I charge it with a battery charging device up to 12,65V, if I don't use the bike, the voltage is going down little by little every day, by the amount of 0,01V per day. When the battery is in bad conditions, the battery loses charge by 0,1V per day.


Of course I'm not 100% sure, only 95% sure

 

[motranqui]

• 1st test: the red & blue wires failed the test obviously. if you can't find a fault (open wire)- replace the regulator. OK, I'm going to look for wires damage between VR plug and the plug under the tank before I order a new Generator
• 2nd test: the resistance measurements for the yellow wires (the 3-phase stator windings) are fine. your meter probably has 0.8 ohms just holding the two leads together. your measurements are close enough. You're right , the meter go betwen 0,6 and 2,0 holding the two leads together
• 3rd test: your stator windings (yellow) are not grounded (which is good)

battery voltage: when you get readings of 12.3v, 12.6v, 13.1v etc when the bike is running- your charging systems is not working and you're reading the battery voltage only. With a fully charged battery you should see at least 13.8v, and 14.2v is better (14.5v would be close to a maximum) when the bike is running; with a nominal electrical load.

Yes. I get readings that go from, lets say, 12,3V to 13,40 when the bike is running. I mean, 12.3... 12,8 ... 13,4 ... 12,6 etc... in a crazy way.

If I go for a ride with 12,65V (because the night before I charged the battery) and after 180 km the battery has 12,26... this figure is "close" to a dead battery. So, may be, if instead of riding 5 hours I ride 8 hours, the bike could stop...

Today, to make a "crossed test" I've started the TE310. At idle I've got 14,45 to 14,55. That's OK


a bad regulator can ruin a battery; a bad battery can ruin a regulator. Bad wiring can do both.

good luck.

Thank you