New Guy 2010 Te 450 Advice

[Dustdevil]

Bought this bike from my son, and it's only got about 1300 miles on it. It's got the off-road mods to it, so it rips. I plan to use it for occasional dual sport rides, put it on the back of the motorhome for local transportation wherever we go, and occasionally ride two-up with my lovely bride for short distances.

It just has a flat spot in the accel just off idle. Seems much more pronounced before the engine is at operating temp, but still exists when it's fully warmed up. I'd like to work on the map a bit in there to ensure it's just a bit rich in the top third of throttle opening just to make sure it's not lean more than anything else, and get rid of that flat spot. So I think I want to dedicate an old laptop to this task and get the sw and cable adapter so I can use iBeat to save what's already there and experiment a bit with what is likely to work and smooth this out.

I'm just confused on how I need to get iBeat. Been reading a lot here, but cost seems to vary between 200 bucks some places and $9.68 on ebay. Cable is either $150 or so, or it's $14.50. I don't really want a pirated copy, but not much interested in paying the full 300 bucks for sw and cable if I can help it. Any suggestions? https://www.ebay.com/itm/IBeat-2-1-...097084?hash=item48cf3671bc:g:vkwAAOSwDG1dO4xf

 

[Dustdevil]

I think there is an even chance I also need a coolant temp sensor, as it sometimes gets hard to start. Since I've ridden this a few times, the fan has never spun to my knowledge. So, I will likely start there. I would, though, for the purpose of dual sport riding, like to have the fuel air mixtures somewhere close to perfect, if not a bit on the rich side.

My background goes all the way back to the early 70s in motocross and desert racing, Grand Prix, SCORE, and a fair amount of true timekeeping enduro riding up to about 5 years ago. So, I'm used to working on my own equipment, including real old school stuff. I had to upgrade my game in 2000 to deal with the Keihin FCR carb that was on my WR400F, and all the jetting nuances of that setup. Really got that dialed in, then a few years later just quit riding completely. Im back, but now it's more likely to be some dual sport, light trail riding, technical trails especially (lower speeds, but difficult), and shorter backroad pavement trips. This will see a wide range of altitudes, from sea level to 13k ft on occasion, although not on the same day. I will have to upgrade my skills again with this one, as today's dirt bikes are considerably more sophisticated.

 

[Eoin]

Have a look on the iBeat thread in the 610/630 section. There's a link from me for a cable I bought in the UK for not much money. It makes a difference to sort out the settings and iBeat also gives you access to some other parameters useful for fault finding. I got an old laptop from our work IT guy, a Dell running XP, and iBeat worked straight out of the box. Also useful to have in the shed with parts / workshop manual PDFs.

http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/the-ibeat-thread.44621/page-31

 

[Dustdevil]

Thank you, I’ll look that over while waiting in the airport later this morning.

 

[Dustdevil]

OK. So, after being out of town for the weekend and being able to do virtually nothing to experiment, I've learned a few things. Read the thread linked above and the other one it references, I think I'm getting a bit of a handle on it. Since the config of the muffler/silencer and spark arrestor and catalytic are all factors in getting the fuel ratios right, I'll check all that later this week to get that configured just as I want it. What I really want is a quiet muffler with a spark arrestor without a cat, but which will pass the 86dB test on BLM land. Since 86 isn't possible on these, I'll just get that as close as I can with minimal exhaust restriction. But I do need a sparky, as the citations for non-compliance are very expensive.

While I'm about to order the necessary interface cable and adapter, and then download the software, I'm trying to revive an older laptop we had sitting around the house. I think it has Vista on it. Maybe Windows 7, I don't remember. It's not cooperating. So, I took the bike for a ride, and started fooling with the idle air adjustment in order to see if I could find a point where it eliminates the bog just off idle. It was acting as if it had a FCR carburetor with a bad accel pump. I read where proper setups often end up with idle speeds of 2000 or so rpm, and mine was idling more like 1800. So, while on a ride this evening, I made some adjustments, which ended up raising the idle from 1800 to bouncing between 1900 and 2000. Hesitation is gone completely. It does occasionally make very small pops on full decel, but nothing to be concerned about. Might be dialed out with some tuning once I get the sw and cables up and running. It had been very hard to start, often running down the battery from the cranking. Always started with a kick, though. This would all make sense if there was too much idle air because the screw was turned out too far in order to bring idle speed down. It also would explain why it was popping worse before I adjusted to get rid of that hesitation. I'll have to test that now that the idle air adjustment seems to be a bit closer to optimum for the TPS adjustment and the existing idle speed adjustment. A dealer set up this Power Up factory kit. They may have set it up at this idle, and somebody else may well have opened up that idle air screw, allowing in more air at idle, making it lean on start, lean on full throttle closed, popping on decel, and leaning out the mixture to the point that opening the throttle from 2nd on up through the gears causes a lean mixture when it really needs a rich mixture. All makes sense.

But I'll still get in and check the figures, as I really want it just a touch on the rich side.

 

[Eoin]

#Dustdevil, what does the shop manual say about idle revs? When I bought my TE630, the idle was set too low, and it was a nightmare to ride it home, it likes to be at the standard 1650 rpm.

 

[Dustdevil]

Manual only says "1600 minimum". That's it. I had to turn down the idle air adjustment (turned "in" = less air) to get the rpm up, and eliminate the hesitation. Once I get set up with iBeat and a cable that works, I'll start from scratch and adjust the real idle stop screw first, as well as proper TPS position in relation to that. This all indicates to me that the butterfly is a bit too far open at idle, letting in too much air, making it hard to start cold (can't richen enough with the choke) and causing a lean condition at idle after its running. By turning down the idle air screw, I'm merely compensating for the butterfly being a bit too far open and allowing too much air in at idle/throttle "closed" position. Once the engine is running, the injector system is putting in adequate fuel to keep it running. But just enough. That's my theory, anyway.

 

[Special Ed65]

If you do the iBeat tuning this is a good read also. I set mine up this way with good results.

http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/my-diy-efi-tweak.3885/page-4#post-145537

 

[Dustdevil]

If you do the iBeat tuning this is a good read also. I set mine up this way with good results.

http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/my-diy-efi-tweak.3885/page-4#post-145537

Yep, I saw that one, and have it saved. It helped get me to this spot where it is now, so it helped. Will likely help even more when I get iBeat. Trying right now to get an old laptop opened up to use as the platform. Once I do that, I'll download iBeat and get started.

 

[Dustdevil]

Update: While waiting for the interface cable to arrive, I've done the following: Pulled the muffler and checked for a cat. It's already gone, so no worries there. Also pulled the spark arrester and checked that. It's almost like new, as I suspected. Plenty of muffler packing left, which indicates this thing isn't getting any quieter. Guess I'll just have to avoid BLM rangers if I'm out on trails. Got the computer fairly well dialed in. I had forgotten which Windows OS it is set up with. It's Vista. Uninstalled pretty much everything I don't need for the workstation to deal with the ECU, and the computer is stable and still fairly fast. Received iBeat and installed it, along with copies of the Owners Manual and links to the Shop Maintenance manual. IBeat seems to work fine, but not much usefulness without the cable. My son still had a Husqvarna memory stick that came with the bike. I hoped that had the saved settings the last dealer service saved in the ECU, but it didn't. User file storage area was empty.

So, just waiting for the cable to show up and continuing to read various threads people have posted on this setup for this bike and iBeat. I don't think I need PCV or JD Tuner, although that JD guy really knows what he is doing. I had his needle and jet in my WR400F and it really cleaned up the acceleration and made jetting for altitudes easier, as well as making the bike easier to start. Which, by the way, is one of my goals with this TE450. As it stands now, I pretty much have to figure on kicking it to start it while cold.

More when I receive the cable.

 

[Dustdevil]

Oh, almost forgot. I also replaced the coolant temp sensor, just to be certain that wasn't complicating the issue. Saved the old one as a spare.

 

[Eoin]

My 630 had straight through arrow pipes when I got it, much too loud. A local exhaust guy made a couple of dB killers and welded them in, which improved things no end.

 

[Dustdevil]

Oh, that's good to know. Wonder if Arrow makes one that's not too restrictive? I'll go searching to see what I find.

 

[Eoin]

The Arrow cans fitted to mine (twin exhaust) were bought used and were completely straight through - no baffles of any description, just packing around the pipe. A local custom exhaust guy made up a piece of tube with a stepped diameter as a dB killer and it helped a lot to reduce the noise. £20 for both cans, a bit of a bargain. I wanted to keep the Arrows on the bike as there is a big weight saving over OEM, but without the modification, I would have had to go back to OEM due to the noise level.

 

[R_Little]

The Arrow cans fitted to mine (twin exhaust) were bought used and were completely straight through - no baffles of any description, just packing around the pipe. A local custom exhaust guy made up a piece of tube with a stepped diameter as a dB killer and it helped a lot to reduce the noise. £20 for both cans, a bit of a bargain. I wanted to keep the Arrows on the bike as there is a big weight saving over OEM, but without the modification, I would have had to go back to OEM due to the noise level.

View attachment 97287

There is a screen type spark arrestor that clips in the end with a circlip that quiets the bike also.

 

[Dustdevil]

There is a screen type spark arrestor that clips in the end with a circlip that quiets the bike also.

Yep. I have that screen in mine. I pulled it just to check and make sure it wasn't clogging or restricted. It's very much clear, but I'm positive it does provide some restriction and a small amount of noise reduction. Unfortunately, everything that's placed in the path of low pressure high volume gas flow is a restriction, so the quieter the muffler is, generally the more restrictive it is. I'll leave that in, as they check for it. Just as they do with sound levels. I certainly never want to be the reason for a brush fire or forest fire. So, the sparky remains. I'll deal with the sound levels as best I can. I think a custom dB killer may be in order.

 

[Dustdevil]

OK. Received my cables and took an hour or so to get the driver, install it, reboot, and get the connection made. Started the beast and read some details, graphed some values, then shut it off. Checked the CO figures, and they were: 1= 102, 2=101, 3=101. Seems a tad lean with only a spark arrestor and stock exhaust otherwise wide open. It also was hard to start to the point I was running down a new battery every time, and had to kick it. My idle air screw is out 2.0 turns. I had turned it in to 2.0 earlier to richen the mixture at zero throttle, and it eliminated the hesitation (which my theory holds is a lean mixture at idle) and raised the idle rpm to 1950-2000. Prior to that, it was probably close to 4 turns out. Somehow, magically, the hesitation was still gone, but tonight it was idling at 1650-1750. Go figure. At any rate, I'll likely set the CO values to something like: 1=103, 2=107, 3=110. My goal is not max fuel economy, although I'd like it to be within reason. My goal is smooth easy starts and no flat spots and no flameouts. Cleaning the spark arrestor screen is a cinch. Would rather not, but if I have to sacrifice that for performance, then I'm ok with it. I also don't want to find that it's running massively lean at 4000-6000 rpm extended runs on backroads at 50-65 mph. Have read a few accounts of blown head gaskets, burned valves, melted pistons, broken rings, and overheating as a result. Would rather it was just a touch rich. So, with these tools and a wealth of knowledge from the links provided above by you folk here on Cafe Husky, I think I have what I need to get this going, at least at sea level. What 2000-12000 foot elevations have for surprises, I guess I'll find out soon enough. Thanks so much for the help here, and ride safely!

 

[Eoin]

The FI should compensate for altitude and temperature. I say 'should' because I don't know what sensors this Mikuni FI uses, but typically, FI does compensate.

 

[Eoin]

Have a look here. http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/08-te-efi-closed-loop-vs-open-loop.1410/

 

[Dustdevil]

I look at it the same way. The Mikuni FI system does sense air temp and pressure, from which air density can be calculated by the ECU. So, it CAN compensate for altitude to a degree, and probably does, either with or without the O2 sensor. My theory is that Mikuni likely created the ability to adjust based on the calculated air density to get a good mixture, then used the O2 sensor to verify the burn Of all the fuel. In other words, the sensors get the temp and pressure, calculate density. That goes into the same equation as the CO value, which is based on rpm and throttle position. That equation outputs a pulse width for the injector to get a coarsely-calculated and controlled mix ratio of air and fuel. Then it looks at the feedback from the O2 sensor to verify a full burn of all the fuel, or at least all the oxygen. Instead of a real feedback number, it's getting an average from the resistor, and calling that good. It uses that to do the fine adjustment to the injector pulse width every few milliseconds, and onward it goes in a constant cycle of sensing, calculating, outputting, and verifying. So, without the O2 sensor, it still works. You just don't have the ultra-fine adjustments to fuel-air ratios. Instead, you are settling for the coarse calculations being done, because those are plenty close, and likely better for performance anyway. Good references, by the way.

Further into my theory: The coarseness of the calculation and algorithm does compensate for altitude, because the numbers the system is using change as altitude changes. The main concern I have with this open loop system is at the extremes. Sea level vs 12k feet, and startup vs full throttle. At startup, engine is cold, throttle is full closed, and it needs to be rich under those circumstances. There's a choke, which is supposed to richen the mixture. It does. Just can't tell if it's going to flood at high altitudes, where air pressure and manifold pressure values may be off the scale. That can likely be tuned slightly by the idle air mixture screw. I suspect if the system is tuned at sea level, it might be less than perfect at high altitudes. If tuned at a few thousand feet, at least the error at either sea level or 12k ft would be half as much, mathematically speaking. I am tuning this essentially at sea level. I'll see how it goes the first time it's at some altitude, maybe 2000-3000 ft. That's very common in California's high desert. I'll likely get it up there sometime this fall.