MotoGP's-Moto 3 Class (completly nuts, total excitement)

[robertaccio]

A huge group of young testosterone filled MotoGP hopefuls on very similar spec 250cc 4T machines=crazy racing!!

Very entertaining, IMHO the most entertaining. Those young dudes are nuts!!! Most seem to be pinned all the way around the track!! Paint swapping is the norm.

 

[WoodsChick]

<...sigh...>

I miss the one-two-five and 250 classes...

 

[R-J van Hulst]

<...sigh...>

I miss the one-two-five and 250 classes...

x2
screaming 2 strokes can not be replaced by anything else

Robert-Jan

 

[lankydoug]

<...sigh...>

I miss the one-two-five and 250 classes...

I wonder what would win if they changed it back to 125, 250 and open (aka run what you brung). I bet 2ts would win 125 and 250 but open would be an interesting mix.

 

[ray_ray]

I wonder what would win if they changed it back to 125, 250 and open (aka run what you brung). I bet 2ts would win 125 and 250 but open would be an interesting mix.

It would be very interesting and generate plenty of interest for the fans ... I'd like to see it but ....

 

[robertaccio]

For the most part down the line the Moto3 bikes are a bit faster than the 125cc class. Very close but a little faster overall.
Assen 2011 125cc 2T fast lap 1:44.928, 2012 250cc 4Tfast lap 1:44.040

 

[hodaka bob]

A 125 smoker (Yamaha) qualified for Red bud last sturday and had 4 bikes behind it in the first moto. After the leders lapped him, he started whipping the table top before Larocos leap. Way cool
Hodaka Bob

 

[lankydoug]

For the most part down the line the Moto3 bikes are a bit faster than the 125cc class. Very close but a little faster overall.
Assen 2011 125cc 2T fast lap 1:44.928, 2012 250cc 4Tfast lap 1:44.040

I didn't mean 125 vs 250 4t but straight up competition based on engine size like it used to be. GNCC has a 250 class that is that way, I think it would be interesting to see how it would play out now that 4t bikes have had about 10 years of focused R&D wile the 2ts have pretty much stayed the same.

 

[R-J van Hulst]

A 2 stroke compared with the same displacement 4 stroke, the 2 stroke will win always

it needs 2 strokes less to come to a power punch on top of that, less moving mass and friction in the rotating train of the engine

if the 2 stroke fuel injection can be commercialized big scale (mater of timing I guess as the product technology is developed) there is also no issue with difference in emissions

Than it would be interesting what the organizers are gonna do for the competitions in place.

for me I like motor riding in general and the 2 stroke motor suits more my driving style (I have no grudge towards 4 strokes but 2 strokes are simply more efficient in power output and needed displacement to do that)

Robert-Jan

 

[WoodsChick]

For the most part down the line the Moto3 bikes are a bit faster than the 125cc class. Very close but a little faster overall.
Assen 2011 125cc 2T fast lap 1:44.928, 2012 250cc 4Tfast lap 1:44.040

For me it isn't really about power or which one is faster or more efficient or anything...it's about soul. The two-strokes have it.


And they sound better

 

[robertaccio]

Remember, Its all about culture, opinion and our generation, they were all classes on 4 strokes up until the 60s basically when the Japanese invasion began (when Degner split to the west/to Suzuki with East German 2 stroke tech). So the 2 stroke age is only @ 40 year span, but its our generation span.
I just still dont like the change to class name which favors a certain type, I like the class distinction which brought forth the fastest best machines for the displacement class (ie 2 strokes). 125cc, 250,350,500.
The new tech bikes are super cool but the main thing missing for me are the variety of prototypes that were seen in the glory days of the four stroke classes, especially the Italian and British marques. The gate would have 5 or more brands in so many different configurations even from each brand, ex. MV Agusta both 3 and 4 cylinder machines of the same displacement class running a GP.
Again it is what is, rules are rules and first case for racing is the $ market value of the series for TV and advert contracts, the stupid money contracts and it seems the Spaniards are the $ rulers of the GP motorcycle world and they have made the new rules.

 

[lankydoug]

Trials competition seems to be about as fair as it could possibly be. It is mostly made up of 2 stroke bikes yet Tony Bou wins championships on a 4t. (but not in the 125 class) I think motocross would play out in a similar way but as long as Honda is writing the AMA rule book it's not likely to happen. I'm drawn to racing as much for the innovation of machines as I am to watching rider skill but lately the machines are so cookie cutter there is a lost segment of what makes it interesting.

 

[MattR]

And they sound smell better

fixed.

 

[WoodsChick]

fixed.

Thanks! I spelled "smell" wrong

 

[Lil Los]

Moto3 is robably the best racing to watch right now. I know it doesn't get a lot of attention but it should. To me it is Moto3>ama mx lites>moto2>ama daytona sportbike<motogp<ama sb

 

[Motosportz]

A 2 stroke compared with the same displacement 4 stroke, the 2 stroke will win always

Robert-Jan

I respectfully disagree. You can still race a YZ250 in the lights class no? If they were faster EVERYONE would be on one. The 4 stroke make nearly the same power and over a wider range and hook up better. I love 2 stroke too but all bikes are a trade off.

 

[Motosportz]

I wonder what would win if they changed it back to 125, 250 and open (aka run what you brung). I bet 2ts would win 125 and 250 but open would be an interesting mix.

I REALLY miss those days. Also miss the cool and exotic works bikes.

 

[Rattletrap]

I respectfully disagree. You can still race a YZ250 in the lights class no? If they were faster EVERYONE would be on one. The 4 stroke make nearly the same power and over a wider range and hook up better. I love 2 stroke too but all bikes are a trade off.

Agree, main difference to me is cost to maintain. Guy at work had a kaw 450f, yearly cost to maintain bike if racing every weekend was (he said) $4500.

 

[R-J van Hulst]

I respectfully disagree. You can still race a YZ250 in the lights class no? If they were faster EVERYONE would be on one. The 4 stroke make nearly the same power and over a wider range and hook up better. I love 2 stroke too but all bikes are a trade off.

racing is different as you put the human factor in the equitation, and as you indicate the characteristic of a 4 stroke motor suits certain conditions better that might give you the competitive edge as a racer.

race a 250 2 stroke in a loose sandy circuit and through a bit of water in there = muddy and the 250 4 stroke will only sniff 2 stroke fumes

on a hard packed circuit the 4 stroke will have definitely the best cards in hand. (assuming that the riders are completely equal)


in order to make the same amount of power for a 4 stroke, they have to bump the RPM up almost 2 x (which modern 4 strokes do come pretty close to it) you still have the more rotation mass in the train so if you look at it pure according the laws of physics the 2 stroke is more efficient compared only on the power generation and displacement it needs for that.

the modern 125 2 stroke delivers out a 35Hp (if tickled a few more) I am not aware of a 125 4 stroke that comes near to it

Robert-Jan

 

[lankydoug]

R-J makes a good point.

If the money backing the game wants a 4t to win they will create an atmosphere to make it possible and if that doesn't work change they will the rules.