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Hi everyone,
As you all know, Coffee (Dean) passed away a couple of years ago. I am Dean's ex-wife's husband and happen to have spent my career in tech. Over the years, I occasionally helped Dean with various tech issues.
When he passed, I worked with his kids to gather the necessary credentials to keep this site running. Since then (and for however long they worked with Coffee), Woodschick and Dirtdame have been maintaining the site and covering the costs. Without their hard work and financial support, CafeHusky would have been lost.
Over the past couple of weeks, I’ve been working to migrate the site to a free cloud compute instance so that Woodschick and Dirtdame no longer have to fund it. At the same time, I’ve updated the site to a current version of XenForo (the discussion software it runs on). The previous version was outdated and no longer supported.
Unfortunately, the new software version doesn’t support importing the old site’s styles, so for now, you’ll see the XenForo default style. This may change over time.
Coffee didn’t document the work he did on the site, so I’ve been digging through the old setup to understand how everything was running. There may still be things I’ve missed. One known issue is that email functionality is not yet working on the new site, but I hope to resolve this over time.
Thanks for your patience and support!
Kreft suspension
- Thread starter Chums
- Start date
Big Timmy
Husqvarna
Pro Class
OK here goes. Start the bitching and whining and sniveling.
I myself contacted Chums about buying his .50 springs he had listed in the classified section. He returned a message to me and apologized that that classified listing for.50 springs from his "ZTR" parts that had been removed and were no longer needed, was a mistake as he never did get a set of .50 springs installed to begin with. Yet he stated that he was charged for them. That's what his post#25 said. That post also said (They weren't .50 springs that ZTR had installed after all, yet he was charged for them but they were never even changed to begin with and said that in his earlier post ( same one #25) so that he now has 2 sets of .48 springs. Those that were still in his forks when he got them back from ZTR. Along with the set he had to begin with, The ones he was told to hold onto because they weren't going to use the .48 springs so for him to just keep them...
Yes that last statement is verbose and redundant. I know but maybe, just maybe it will help with the understanding?
I believe he referred to "Kreft" having actually been the ones responsible for installing the .50 set of springs earlier. The .50 springs is what he has in the bike now, that's what he has now after all the troubles he went through after he got his forks redone at "Kreft". He told me this is the spring weight he now has, .50
I fail to under stand how he could return the set of .50 springs to anybody for a full refund as long as they aren't damaged. Isn't use easily considered to be damage as they are no longer a new saleable item?
This shows how good the communication is here too. As can be seen in the last few posts.
A refund for .50 springs? He never got?? As long as they aren't damaged.
He never got them in the first place ( the.50 springs for a refund ??) and they are now finally being run in his bike.
I have .48 springs in my new bike coming next week and thought I would pick up the heavier .50 springs from him just to try them out if it's turns out to be too soft. As soon as my 4CS Forks get a few hours on them. I'm saving my money already now and I'll promise you all. I'll only get the forks done 1 time. Shock too. Pelican rifle case is already sitting in my living room.
Personalized/Customized/ What ever you want to call it. Just having Options and all this valuable information is what a forum is all about. Thanks.
Sometimes after digging through loads of all the trash you find something valuable.
I myself contacted Chums about buying his .50 springs he had listed in the classified section. He returned a message to me and apologized that that classified listing for.50 springs from his "ZTR" parts that had been removed and were no longer needed, was a mistake as he never did get a set of .50 springs installed to begin with. Yet he stated that he was charged for them. That's what his post#25 said. That post also said (They weren't .50 springs that ZTR had installed after all, yet he was charged for them but they were never even changed to begin with and said that in his earlier post ( same one #25) so that he now has 2 sets of .48 springs. Those that were still in his forks when he got them back from ZTR. Along with the set he had to begin with, The ones he was told to hold onto because they weren't going to use the .48 springs so for him to just keep them...
Yes that last statement is verbose and redundant. I know but maybe, just maybe it will help with the understanding?
I believe he referred to "Kreft" having actually been the ones responsible for installing the .50 set of springs earlier. The .50 springs is what he has in the bike now, that's what he has now after all the troubles he went through after he got his forks redone at "Kreft". He told me this is the spring weight he now has, .50
I fail to under stand how he could return the set of .50 springs to anybody for a full refund as long as they aren't damaged. Isn't use easily considered to be damage as they are no longer a new saleable item?
This shows how good the communication is here too. As can be seen in the last few posts.
A refund for .50 springs? He never got?? As long as they aren't damaged.
He never got them in the first place ( the.50 springs for a refund ??) and they are now finally being run in his bike.
I have .48 springs in my new bike coming next week and thought I would pick up the heavier .50 springs from him just to try them out if it's turns out to be too soft. As soon as my 4CS Forks get a few hours on them. I'm saving my money already now and I'll promise you all. I'll only get the forks done 1 time. Shock too. Pelican rifle case is already sitting in my living room.
Personalized/Customized/ What ever you want to call it. Just having Options and all this valuable information is what a forum is all about. Thanks.
Sometimes after digging through loads of all the trash you find something valuable.
Chums said his part, ZTR said sorry and offered a refund. Let them work this out and lets talk Kreft here.
Big Timmy
Husqvarna
Pro Class
You bet Chums, especially when it smells like gun powder, gun oil and has an indentation from a high powered rifle.
By the way Mister Umpire Kelly. My starting sentence you quoted above was done knowing as always that you would get on my case for me speaking my mind. How many times have you done that, countless times.
I was typing the above post while I had to take a Govt. phone call. Chums posted during my post being typed so it is what it is.
"Kreft" suspension seems to be what it is!
By the way Mister Umpire Kelly. My starting sentence you quoted above was done knowing as always that you would get on my case for me speaking my mind. How many times have you done that, countless times.
I was typing the above post while I had to take a Govt. phone call. Chums posted during my post being typed so it is what it is.
"Kreft" suspension seems to be what it is!
So I had a riding buddy pay $1000 shipped and he did valving, springs front and rear, the base valve set up and micro finish on everything. But in all reality your looking from $850-$1700 on untouched suspension. Mine was $1700 but there were parts to replace and front springs and I opted for the huck valve (very plush!).
Adams a super nice guy and will totally walk you though any questions you might have and explaine what's going on in the suspension.
robertaccio
Husqvarna
Pro Class
Even if we see/think of our suspension costs as expensive our dirt bike habit/hobby is still insanely cheap by comparison to other motorsport endeavors.
Hung around world superbike pits (specically Team Alstar Suzuki) for a while they talked 100s of thousands in suspension costs per season and most were on a lease service support contract with the bigs (Ohlins, Showa ect), constant change and R&D throughout the season.
Hung around world superbike pits (specically Team Alstar Suzuki) for a while they talked 100s of thousands in suspension costs per season and most were on a lease service support contract with the bigs (Ohlins, Showa ect), constant change and R&D throughout the season.
Big Timmy
Husqvarna
Pro Class
I visited my Mom last year in the SF Bay Area. She lives in Danville Ca. (Blackhawk).. My brother is in his mid 40's. He took me to a few of his friends houses who were neighbors of his and my Moms where he grew up. They all rode Mountain bikes together at places like "Mt. Diablo" Some had Mountain bikes that cost over $7000.00 to $10,000.00 dollars.
I'd say my last dirt bike purchase which shipped yesterday was pretty damned cheap. If you add the proper protective components as well, which I have already done and am doing will bring the resale of that bike up tremendously. Even after all the off road fun you have with it.
Suspension set up is paramount for achieving the proper off road experience. Unless you like to do turf tests with your upper lip. It's what makes the bike be, the best it can be.
I'd say my last dirt bike purchase which shipped yesterday was pretty damned cheap. If you add the proper protective components as well, which I have already done and am doing will bring the resale of that bike up tremendously. Even after all the off road fun you have with it.
Suspension set up is paramount for achieving the proper off road experience. Unless you like to do turf tests with your upper lip. It's what makes the bike be, the best it can be.
robertaccio
Husqvarna
Pro Class
dug around and found this concerning 2014 rules changes for WSBK
Perhaps the biggest saving will come in the imposition of price caps on suspension and braking parts. Though the items themselves were not that expensive, the real cost was in the service contract which teams were forced to sign for the maintenance and set up of forks and shocks. A team might pay, say, 40,000 euros* for a couple of sets of forks, but then over 100,000 euros for the technician to maintain them and advise and manage spring
rates, damping, etc.
*that's 20k (EU) for a set of forks (Ive heard of almost double than that as well)
note no mention of Shock so add that into the mix.
OK now back to the thread at hand.
Perhaps the biggest saving will come in the imposition of price caps on suspension and braking parts. Though the items themselves were not that expensive, the real cost was in the service contract which teams were forced to sign for the maintenance and set up of forks and shocks. A team might pay, say, 40,000 euros* for a couple of sets of forks, but then over 100,000 euros for the technician to maintain them and advise and manage spring
rates, damping, etc.
*that's 20k (EU) for a set of forks (Ive heard of almost double than that as well)
note no mention of Shock so add that into the mix.
OK now back to the thread at hand.
Big Timmy
Husqvarna
Pro Class
As long as it's working right when we pay to get it done, great. A simple re-valve is a re-valve. I've had good and I've had bad too.
These 4CS forks seem to need a bit more attention than that. Since that is the case, Then we also should actually get what we pay for, If so, its all good. If not, Its all going to be BS for life in business. which turns into a loss of business forever. There are just too many options out there, to not have to put up with that kind if dealings.
Even when I've had bikes that the suspension was dialed in great by other suspension Gurus, at the same time I never say I can smoke everybody out on the trails on a 250 when I'm riding on trails I've been on a million times either because the bike handles so good. Even if I probably have been on some of those trails more than everybody I ride with. It's not like I recognize every single pebble on the ground where I go riding.
Hell, I have a Buddy who rides Horse Patrol everyday for the Border Patrol, he knows every single track trail and where it leads to for days out here. Every smugglers trail and fire pit along the way from their long journey into the land of milk and honey, Good ol USA. Many of these trails which we ride on.. You will run out of gas long before you can keep up with this guy trust me, He'll take you so far away up into the Chiricahua Mountains. You will be lost for days and probably end up being dead or airlifted out if that happens to you. You could Kiss the bike off...
He has a few KTMs a have dozen or more 4 stroke XR Hondas in various sizes. A few Kawasaki's and can blow us all off so bad on this little old beat up KDX200 it would make your damned head spin. It was revalved by Racetech many years ago for the previous owner. Conventional forks even on this thing. My buddy says the previous owner he bought this POS from must have been smaller than he is. He has never payed a dime himself to have suspension done on any of over 10 bikes in his garage. But he knows every trail, every rock, every creek bed, every jump, every ledge, every branch hanging out in the path and which side of a 2 track to be on at all times.. Best of all he knows every single trail that is only accessible by horseback, and their are a few. I've seen them. Some I wouldn't even attempt to walk or crawl up.. For that reason alone he is usually out ahead of us. He is also an excellent fast rider who does a Baja trip twice a year for fun. To some lucky few, Suspension work just doesn't seem to be needed I guess.
Look, I don't consider myself a "Super Duper Rider" and may not notice the subtle nuance of the shock or forks as being wrong or being to blame when it may have very well been the issue in a given instance or scary moment. I'm no expert. I am always learning and I don't fiddle too much with the clickers but I do know enough that a change to the rear shocks clickers, Say backing out a few clicks on "High speed compression for instance" can also make a difference in how the front of the bike feels. So I ride it and I learn. I don't get carried away with adjustments. Never adjust both rebound and compression at the same time either. Ultimately I would like to find a set up that works and not have to mess with it at all but that's just not a reality as that's why we have adjusters in the first place.
When the suspension is off and something isn't right. I would probably blame myself and say "Whoa slow down there" a bit. When the Suspension is right you will know it...
.
These 4CS forks seem to need a bit more attention than that. Since that is the case, Then we also should actually get what we pay for, If so, its all good. If not, Its all going to be BS for life in business. which turns into a loss of business forever. There are just too many options out there, to not have to put up with that kind if dealings.
Even when I've had bikes that the suspension was dialed in great by other suspension Gurus, at the same time I never say I can smoke everybody out on the trails on a 250 when I'm riding on trails I've been on a million times either because the bike handles so good. Even if I probably have been on some of those trails more than everybody I ride with. It's not like I recognize every single pebble on the ground where I go riding.
Hell, I have a Buddy who rides Horse Patrol everyday for the Border Patrol, he knows every single track trail and where it leads to for days out here. Every smugglers trail and fire pit along the way from their long journey into the land of milk and honey, Good ol USA. Many of these trails which we ride on.. You will run out of gas long before you can keep up with this guy trust me, He'll take you so far away up into the Chiricahua Mountains. You will be lost for days and probably end up being dead or airlifted out if that happens to you. You could Kiss the bike off...
He has a few KTMs a have dozen or more 4 stroke XR Hondas in various sizes. A few Kawasaki's and can blow us all off so bad on this little old beat up KDX200 it would make your damned head spin. It was revalved by Racetech many years ago for the previous owner. Conventional forks even on this thing. My buddy says the previous owner he bought this POS from must have been smaller than he is. He has never payed a dime himself to have suspension done on any of over 10 bikes in his garage. But he knows every trail, every rock, every creek bed, every jump, every ledge, every branch hanging out in the path and which side of a 2 track to be on at all times.. Best of all he knows every single trail that is only accessible by horseback, and their are a few. I've seen them. Some I wouldn't even attempt to walk or crawl up.. For that reason alone he is usually out ahead of us. He is also an excellent fast rider who does a Baja trip twice a year for fun. To some lucky few, Suspension work just doesn't seem to be needed I guess.
Look, I don't consider myself a "Super Duper Rider" and may not notice the subtle nuance of the shock or forks as being wrong or being to blame when it may have very well been the issue in a given instance or scary moment. I'm no expert. I am always learning and I don't fiddle too much with the clickers but I do know enough that a change to the rear shocks clickers, Say backing out a few clicks on "High speed compression for instance" can also make a difference in how the front of the bike feels. So I ride it and I learn. I don't get carried away with adjustments. Never adjust both rebound and compression at the same time either. Ultimately I would like to find a set up that works and not have to mess with it at all but that's just not a reality as that's why we have adjusters in the first place.
When the suspension is off and something isn't right. I would probably blame myself and say "Whoa slow down there" a bit. When the Suspension is right you will know it...
.
Johnrg
Husqvarna
Pro Class
I root for that privateer who rides the pants off the rest on somewhat stock or mildly attended to machines. I like to fix what's wrong and not buy every item in the catalog. I can and should ride better in time and adapt but not going to pay 15-20% extra over a top of the line machine's price tag (like fixing suspension except certain cases). If it's really top of the line the good stuff comes with it. Companies that stick it to you.... Well, I stick it to them and don't buy their products. Rather buy or build a sweet "other" bike with the good stuff for equal or less dollars and have something sweet that's competitive if racing or desirable to anyone down the road. A throwaway bike is a dumb model. Throwing away good hard parts off of a new top of the line machine is a sad joke to play on buyers today. While big time companies can fund and sponsor riders to do the testing for the manufacturers or support their pro riders, it should not intrude on amateur ranks to gain a competitive machine. Some tuning yes, but not a complete re-engineering of a brand new "state of the art" component.
Steve Kanya
Husqvarna
AA Class
We all know guys that never adjust anything on their bikes and just ride well in their own bliss. Many of these people smoke me on a regular basis. One "kid" in particular started riding with us every wed night in Maybrook NY as a teenager. He got crazy fast instantly, won the Unadilla over all on a box stock YZ 250 then got hired by KTM, went on years later to even beat Knighter even up. He said to me before the factory ride one day when he saw me changing clickers. "I've never touched them clicker adjustments ever on the suspension. Just ride the damn bike Stevie." Damn kid.
I have a buddy that obsesses over the bike, its always something wrong. It ruins half his rides. I tell him the same thing, just freaking ride it. That said I think suspension is the best place to spend money and find it very worth it on many bikes.
lankydoug
Husqvarna
Pro Class
I spent about $600 having Les at LTR do the 50mm zokes and the shock on my 09 wr250. I'd have to think twice about buying a 4cS bike that required $1000-$1700 to get it to work. When I was young I didn't even know you could adjust suspension, I just rode it and let my legs do what the suspension couldn't. Now at age 52 it's nice to have my suspension working right. I'm 6'6" so it takes a lot for the bike to kick out from under me or buck me off especially the rear end.
I get that at 6'6" and 205 lbs I will never buy a bike off the showroom that is set up for me but what I don't get is that most bikes don't work for anybody. You would think that if you were 5'10" and 170 lbs you could get on it and go. My son's 2011 yz450 is the closest to good suspension on a stock bike I've ever ridden. He is 6'9" and 210 lbs and 19 years old, about the only thing he ever complains about is when he bottoms it out usually casing a double jump or jumping a creek and hitting the uphill side... I just shake my head and say "you're not supposed to do that" and think to myself that that would have probably killed me. lol
I get that at 6'6" and 205 lbs I will never buy a bike off the showroom that is set up for me but what I don't get is that most bikes don't work for anybody. You would think that if you were 5'10" and 170 lbs you could get on it and go. My son's 2011 yz450 is the closest to good suspension on a stock bike I've ever ridden. He is 6'9" and 210 lbs and 19 years old, about the only thing he ever complains about is when he bottoms it out usually casing a double jump or jumping a creek and hitting the uphill side... I just shake my head and say "you're not supposed to do that" and think to myself that that would have probably killed me. lol
I just worked with the stock springs and valving for years. For the play riding I was doing, it was just fine.
Then I started racing it. Suddenly it turned into a undersprung, nasty beast that kicked my ass. I never had knobby marks like those inside my fenders before. I always thought having suspension tuned was for rich guys, lousy riders who needed the extra help, or fancy racers.
Now with my sweet boingers sprinkled with Ty Davis magic dust, I wonder why I waited so long. My fatigue level after a race is less than half what it was, my times are getting better, and I'm finishing in single digit places. I'm already thinking that my next bike (what ever it is) is gonna get the suspension dialed lots sooner.
The bummer here is that this whole thread went from informative, to off the rails because KTM/Husky/WP decided to let the customers and privateer racers finish doing the R&D work on forks that clearly weren't ready for prime time.
Hell I think this whole pile of vitriol should be deleted and started over. Share the postive things and keep it that way. Dragging a reputable shop that supports this site and many of us with their service and sharing knowledge isn't doing anybody any good.
Then I started racing it. Suddenly it turned into a undersprung, nasty beast that kicked my ass. I never had knobby marks like those inside my fenders before. I always thought having suspension tuned was for rich guys, lousy riders who needed the extra help, or fancy racers.
Now with my sweet boingers sprinkled with Ty Davis magic dust, I wonder why I waited so long. My fatigue level after a race is less than half what it was, my times are getting better, and I'm finishing in single digit places. I'm already thinking that my next bike (what ever it is) is gonna get the suspension dialed lots sooner.
The bummer here is that this whole thread went from informative, to off the rails because KTM/Husky/WP decided to let the customers and privateer racers finish doing the R&D work on forks that clearly weren't ready for prime time.
Hell I think this whole pile of vitriol should be deleted and started over. Share the postive things and keep it that way. Dragging a reputable shop that supports this site and many of us with their service and sharing knowledge isn't doing anybody any good.
Big Timmy
Husqvarna
Pro Class
This was a "Kreft suspension" discussion right? Do you have WP 4CS forks? It does suck we WP 4CS owners have to finish the WP factory job, Some may or may not elect to do anything to our own WP 4CS "sweet boingers" but when we do, we will do so at our own free will. That work will go to whomever works out for each individual. Glad you're so happy with your "sweet boingers" many people are with the ZTR mods.
Don't tell us about who we are supposed to support either. I had 2 orders shipped from Zipty last week alone.
As I've been told a few times before on here, If you don't like it don't read it.
Oh! And there is no such thing as sprinkled magic dust.
Don't tell us about who we are supposed to support either. I had 2 orders shipped from Zipty last week alone.
As I've been told a few times before on here, If you don't like it don't read it.
Oh! And there is no such thing as sprinkled magic dust.