Kreft suspension

[Chums]

If youd like to buy some zip ty merchandise they have there own thread, Your not adding anything useful. Every thread does not need to have sponsors trying to sell something. If you have a problem pm me.

 

[Aaron platt]

I don't think I'm the one with a problem. Your acting a little bit like a bully. It's obvious you have a pre-existing chip on your shoulder. I think next time you have a problem with a post it would be better to use a pm rather than a "LOL".

 

[be350ka]

I'll say it....I too am tired of certain sponsors interjecting constantly to protect their harem. Check KTM talk...Kreft has been getting rave reviews and it seems to have struck a nerve with the local. I dont have a product from either vendor and will not take a side in saying who provides the best service. However, with conversations on both sides (Kreft and the local) I can say that attitudes can be good or bad. Read into that how you like...

 

[LandofMotards]

I'll say it....I too am tired of certain sponsors interjecting constantly to protect their harem. Check KTM talk...Kreft has been getting rave reviews and it seems to have struck a nerve with the local. I dont have a product from either vendor and will not take a side in saying who provides the best service. However, with conversations on both sides (Kreft and the local) I can say that attitudes can be good or bad. Read into that how you like...

I get what you're saying but don't feel its wrong for him to post about his service on a thread that has everything to do with his business. He pays to sponsor the site and has given tons of free advice and tips. The constant crap about sponsors or a sponsor doesn't do anything to better this forum.

If I owned a business and sponsored a site i would throw my name into the ring when a related topic is discussed. The bigger picture is that not everyone is a regular here and some just stumble on a "4cs fix" related thread from google. I'd like those people to see I'm also an option.

Kreft charges enough more for his work so I'm sure he can afford to sponsor the cafe also but he doesn't

 

[Chums]

Being a sponsor doesn't equal having power on any other site but this one, its quite frankly almost embarrassing how flagrant it is. I loose all respect for anyone who feels the need to come running in on a thread just to say look what I sell.

And yes I do have a bit of a chip on my shoulder because of the above and if you all really want this here it goes, I honestly received the worst suspension I'd ever ridden from zip ty and had the worst experience after the sale and to top it all off I had springs for this bike but I was told to keep them since they would use .50 springs so I end up having it redone at Kreft and low and behold I had .48 in it and now own two sets of the same spring because they milked me for more money and gave me a terrible product and I was given no explanation on anything. At the time They had the suspension for weeks when everyone else can turn it around in a day or two, none of my clickers matched on the forks for those of you who never check them, they flipped the fork tubes which flipped my WP stickers backwards and upsidedown showing lack of detail in my eyes and the high speed adjuster in my shock gushed oil due to a pinched o ring they did and I was charged over $600 of completely wasted money to have the privelage of them working on it, and after all that you'd be crazy to think I'd send them back or want to listen to anything they have to say in my post about the the very best experience and very best suspension and very best communication I've ever had. They should sit here quietly and learn how its done instead of selling shiver inserts that have nothing to do with this post.
What I haven't said about my experience is that the local guy I first sent my suspension to was Junior Jackson famous ex pro MX guy and current arena cross team owner who had done great work before for me but I just wasn't happy with his 4cs set up, this should go to show no mater what level of pro you used to be doesn't make them an expert at 4cs suspension.
I wish I was the only one that had this experience with zip Ty but I wasn't and have talked to several other members who will never do business with them again over the 4cs deal. So do I believe they can do kyb, yes , do I believe they can do 4cs with the oc mod, no, do I believe they run an efficient great communicating company, no.
Everyone is so afraid of getting flamed out for saying the truth about stuff but what ever. I appreciate zip Ty's support on this site but why not let their website sell or their thread sell or even let their products sell themselves but why inject a sales pitch into every thread? Antics like that turn a lot of people off and when a web site like KTM talk is around it's probably not the best thing to turn people off this site.

Flame on guys I'll be back after the fires out.

 

[Motosportz]

And thats why you dont poke the tiger I appreciate your honesty. I have received excellent product and suspension performance from them but found their communication skills very lacking. My suspensions that they did were excellent as was the friends I have sent. Non of those were 4CS though. I believe they are very good shop, doing very good work but need to upgrade the communication and interaction part of it. I appreciate your honesty and you obviously did not like the product but at the time were nice about it. Now you were forced to say things you did not want to say. I'll not flame you for any of that. Appreciate the feedback and many will learn from it including ZTR.

Hopefully this ends this mess and you can get back to the thread at hand.

 

[Chums]

And thats why you dont poke the tiger I appreciate your honesty. I have received excellent product and suspension performance from them but found their communication skills very lacking. My suspensions that they did were excellent as was the friends I have sent. Non of those were 4CS though. I believe they are very good shop, doing very good work but need to upgrade the communication and interaction part of it. I appreciate your honesty and you obviously did not like the product but at the time were nice about it. Now you were forced to say things you did not want to say. I'll not flame you for any of that. Appreciate the feedback and many will learn from it including ZTR.

Hopefully this ends this mess and you can get back to the thread at hand.

Thank you for understanding, and I have a set of ztr kyb forks that work very well also and can't say a bad thing about that set up either.

 

[Lincolnlock]

.

Flame on guys I'll be back after the fires out.

This is exactly what is going on. 100%. I held back a great deal when I posted my results because they are a sponsor of the site. However, my 2001 GasGas with 43mm WP forks works better than what I received back from Zipty after a month. I also have two sets of the same springs for my bike now. Offensively bad service should be rewarded accordingly.

With that being said, I also have Kreft suspension and it is the best suspension I have ever ridden. Kreft also has excellent customer service, communication, and quick turn around. If you need your suspension setup by professionals, save up your money and send it to Texas. Otherwise, take the cartridge seals out, drill a hole in your cartridge seal casings, install the rebound cone in the compression leg and the compression cone in the rebound leg, install both check valves in rebound orientation and put in some Marzocchi bottoming valves and Bob's your uncle.
:flame suit on:

 

[Motosportz]

This is exactly what is going on. 100%.

where? Lets not elevate this, I see no flaming. Kreft seems to be good stuff, lets talk about that and get back on track. Just my thoughts, nothing more.

 

[robertaccio]

Well this was a Kreft suspension thread
Scientifically/engineering wise I for one am very interested to know exactly what Adam does to the these things. Ive watched a few of his viddys, read a bunch of stuff from both him and MX Tech as it seems they are specific item/parts engineering partners in the 4CS effort.

PS Lincolnlock, Bob being Bell?
PPS all this and the WP Factory still equips all their world class guys with Cone Valve forks........(that's my standard blah blah blah and they all use the Cone Valve system on their bikes). Which still leads me to, even WP knows they have a lemon in its initial engineering theory.

Back to Kreft guys.
The beauty of this site is that it is usually more logical and educated, lets keep that tradition going.
Hey can someone move this to the General or Tech section this effects all new 4CS Huskys not just 2T models

 

[Chums]

So Adam installed the MX tech base valves in mine ,only draw back is it uses a Allen to adjust not a flat head but it does sit flush with the bottom of the fork so it doesn't pack full of mud and dirt and he installed the Huck valves which in turn let him valve lighter and use less oil and he also installed his own mid valve the rev2 valve. So what I got was something that is super plush like can't even feel small rocks and branches but yet I feel 100% in control and yet somehow still connected and I can really come in hot to logs and never bottom which is super nice! Its much more active in the first half to 3/4 stroke sucking things up but doesn't transfer that up to you. He also did his version of micro finishing and I can honestly tell he did it due to lack of sticktion. I'm sure there are standard internal changes to allow rebound on top and comp on bottom.
I apologize for dropping this in the 2s forum it seemed at the time to be the place for suspension talk so if there's a better place yes please relocate.

 

[robertaccio]

I do have one question in my mind, I know the Kreft mid valve assembly works my engineering concern is a shorter term shim failure due to the single axis bend point. I know all shims have a lifecycle as they bend under fluid loads. But most all systems that I know from OEMs like KYB, Showa, etc are 3 point bend shims, those OEM valves are usually 3 port valves. I wondered in the past how they came up with that "standard" 3 port set up. No worry I just "think" that this subject shim will be the short lifespan item in this set up, so be thinking this when service time comes.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5LAw7sv-DA

 

[Chums]

I do have one question in my mind, I know the Kreft mid valve assembly works my engineering concern is a shorter term shim failure due to the single axis bend point. I know all shims have a lifecycle as they bend under fluid loads. But most all systems that I know from OEMs like KYB, Showa, etc are 3 point bend shims, those OEM valves are usually 3 port valves. I wondered in the past how they came up with that "standard" 3 port set up. No worry I just "think" that this subject shim will be the short lifespan item in this set up, so be thinking this when service time comes.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5LAw7sv-DA

I don't know enough to agree or disagree robertaccio lol! It seems an acceptable trade off to me though if replacing a shim or two during service is needed but it would be a bad deal if it failed before a service .....
At least we don't all have air forks haha! Had a guy at the last race do almost the whole thing with no air in the forks it was a funny sight!

 

[Tinken]

Wow, well then. I'll try keep this brief as I have been in the hospital all morning and still am (I'm okay). I appreciate the feedback, both good and bad as ZTR is ever evolving and I am trying to make things better for everyone. Many of the things said about ZTR, especially communications is true, but many of the comments are not.

Eric, this entire thread began with a stab at ZTR. You should of picked up the phone and called us, at very least, messaged me personally when your 4CS wasn't working the way you expected. Customers call me all the time and I take care of them. I cannot help you if you don't let me. ZTR suspension is never harsh or unbalanced when set up properly, obviously something was not setup properly with the suspension sent to you. Our suspension is top of the line.

Any attacks or flaming towards me personally is not appreciated. As you know, personally I am 100% volunteer here on these forums for both ZTR and everyone on cafe husky. I sell here because I have to. It is a condition of my stay here among you and may or may not be a necessary evil depending on how you take it. The truth is that cafe husky costs money to exist, a lot of money. ZTR sponsors this site and my inventions to help you guys. I enjoy helping you guys and it is my honest intention here to do just that. 90% of the tech in the past few years you guys get from ZTR came from my involvement (not suspension). Anyway, anything further I will post in the ZTR forum and leave you to your intended discussion.

 

[jon630]

How much would this cost? Also, can I buy a set of those graphics for my Ktm shrouded 300?

Aaron As far as the graphics they will be listed for purchase with your choice of sponsors, contact one of us

 

[be350ka]

I get what you're saying but don't feel its wrong for him to post about his service on a thread that has everything to do with his business. He pays to sponsor the site and has given tons of free advice and tips. The constant crap about sponsors or a sponsor doesn't do anything to better this forum.

If I owned a business and sponsored a site i would throw my name into the ring when a related topic is discussed. The bigger picture is that not everyone is a regular here and some just stumble on a "4cs fix" related thread from google. I'd like those people to see I'm also an option.

Kreft charges enough more for his work so I'm sure he can afford to sponsor the cafe also but he doesn't

Who cares what Kreft charges for his service. If it's out of reach for your checkbook then don't spend it. But, just because he's on the high end of the 4cs tuners and is making money doesn't mean that he needs to sponsor a site to peddle his goods. Again, I don't have Zipty suspension or Krefts version so no sides taken here.

The problem I have here is that when a viable alternative to a site sponsor shows promise a certain user feels the need to validate. Let the consumer relay their experience and thoughts. Don't be the loud drunk kid at the party looking to be the center of attention. Stand by, answer question and stay neutral.

 

[jon630]

Being a sponsor doesn't equal having power on any other site but this one, its quite frankly almost embarrassing how flagrant it is. I loose all respect for anyone who feels the need to come running in on a thread just to say look what I sell.

And yes I do have a bit of a chip on my shoulder because of the above and if you all really want this here it goes, I honestly received the worst suspension I'd ever ridden from zip ty and had the worst experience after the sale and to top it all off I had springs for this bike but I was told to keep them since they would use .50 springs so I end up having it redone at Kreft and low and behold I had .48 in it and now own two sets of the same spring because they milked me for more money and gave me a terrible product and I was given no explanation on anything. At the time They had the suspension for weeks when everyone else can turn it around in a day or two, none of my clickers matched on the forks for those of you who never check them, they flipped the fork tubes which flipped my WP stickers backwards and upsidedown showing lack of detail in my eyes and the high speed adjuster in my shock gushed oil due to a pinched o ring they did and I was charged over $600 of completely wasted money to have the privelage of them working on it, and after all that you'd be crazy to think I'd send them back or want to listen to anything they have to say in my post about the the very best experience and very best suspension and very best communication I've ever had. They should sit here quietly and learn how its done instead of selling shiver inserts that have nothing to do with this post.
What I haven't said about my experience is that the local guy I first sent my suspension to was Junior Jackson famous ex pro MX guy and current arena cross team owner who had done great work before for me but I just wasn't happy with his 4cs set up, this should go to show no mater what level of pro you used to be doesn't make them an expert at 4cs suspension.
I wish I was the only one that had this experience with zip Ty but I wasn't and have talked to several other members who will never do business with them again over the 4cs deal. So do I believe they can do kyb, yes , do I believe they can do 4cs with the oc mod, no, do I believe they run an efficient great communicating company, no.
Everyone is so afraid of getting flamed out for saying the truth about stuff but what ever. I appreciate zip Ty's support on this site but why not let their website sell or their thread sell or even let their products sell themselves but why inject a sales pitch into every thread? Antics like that turn a lot of people off and when a web site like KTM talk is around it's probably not the best thing to turn people off this site.

Flame on guys I'll be back after the fires out.

Hello Chums,
I also want to be honest here. No reason to be bad mouthing anyone please read below. What works well for one person may not work for the next. hint "Custom"

I Just wanted to ask about you sending your suspension to ZTR after someone else had set up the forks that you were not happy with (did you call Junior Jackson to see if he would fix your dislikes?). You should have given us a call, we stand behind our service and products. Those .50 springs you did not use, please send back for a refund as long as they are not damaged, I will give you 100% refund on springs only.

First thing anyone should know is any and all suspension shops need your information, your feedback, your weight, height, types of riding, level of riding skills, etc. Without correct information it is a guessing game. Next, what the bike does that you don't like, what you want the bike to do and you did give us information/feedback as to what you wanted done, what you want fixed etc. Can you agree on this? Next if it only took you 3 times to get it perfect, you're way ahead of the factory teams!! Factory teams change the suspension on the riders bikes from day to day, practice to race day, and then after that they do it all over again and again and again, and this has been done for years and years.

Please understand at ZTR we GUARANTEE our work, there is no reason to be carrying around a chip on your shoulder. You elected to not call, not even give us a chance to fix your problems. We are not shim changers we do custom suspension tuning to fit a very wide range of riders and bikes. Jon

 

[Chums]

I emailed you and I talked to both of you on the phone, that is how bad communication is around there you guys have no recollection of my issues. With both of my suspensions I sent along a detailed page, an entire page of my info, nobody ever called me to ask questions and I even called to make sure there were no questions. my email is below that I sent...

Hey guys, I have been real happy with my KYBs that were done but... The 4cs is becoming a different deal. When I received them the clickers we set differently on each fork, not a huge deal. I discovered that when adjusting the high speed shock setting oil leaks from the threads when moving the adjuster and stops leaking when not turning it which has me very worried. I had sent a very detailed explanation of what I was looking for but for some reason it literally feels like one person did the forks and someone else did the shock, the set up doesn't feel balanced the front valving is soft and rear firm or something. I've adjusted the front to 4-5 clicks out on comp and 14-16 rebound to get them to feel firm enough to match the rear and softened the shock to 18-20 clicks out on compression 2 1/2 turns out high speed and 20 out on rebound.
> After talking to a shop guy today it sounds like I have to strip it back down and send it all back. I'm not that excited to pull it apart and pay shipping to and from again, especially when our season starts in a couple weeks. I race for points and have a 9hr hare scramble in a month and can't chance not having suspension. If someone could contact me and help me take care of this I would really appreciate it. My cell is xxx-xxx-xxxx and can be reached days nights weekends whenever. Thank you

The answers I got were just like what was said above we will fix it ship it back. It was so screwed up and so far off that once I took it off again I honestly didn't trust you guys to work on it again, as much hype as there was about how good it should be and the reality of how this could have ever made it out of your shop I bailed. I'm not a factory race team and maybe I was silly to think it would be right the first time then. What I've said here is true in my case I have not tried to personally attack anyone but name a company and people I have interacted with and my experience.
I have no chip on my shoulder now that I've gotten this out there and giving my experience is not bad mouthing, it is what it is, I learned, I now have sweet suspension unfortunately the way I got there wasn't the easiest. I wanted to tell people about how sweet this suspension is and if they have the money they should go for it, I honestly couldn't find a bad review of this suspension. There it is.

 

[reveille]

Chums, I'm sorry you went through all the frustration and money to find the setup you expected from the start. I nearly followed the same path but at the last minute I went a different route. It wasn't cheap but I'm blown away like you are now. Fact is every business has a bad day and sometimes the customer is disappointed with no resolution. It's happened to me plenty, ending with bitterness and frustration. I know what you have now and it's on another level so enjoy the bike and roost on. Life is short and our riding clock is ticking. I appreciate you posting your experience so others may be able to make an educated decision.

 

[Tinken]

I emailed you and I talked to both of you on the phone, that is how bad communication is around there you guys have no recollection of my issues.

I actually ended up calling and talking to John this morning and got squared away! If all goes well, I'll pull it apart this weekend and get it sent out to you guys!

Eric, I worked closely with you on your Kawasaki suspension, the last thing you said to me about your 4CS was that you had called and worked it out with Jon. I personally received no phone calls, nor email, nor CH pm's after Jan 23rd, 2015 from you. Again, I apologize for your bad experience with us. I completely agree that communication needs to improve at ZTR. If there is anything I can do to help you in the future, whether it involves ZTR or just to chat about non-ZTR stuff, feel free shoot me a pm or call me.