ITC Damping on TE 510

[Michel Dufayard]

Hello SA 63
Do you have pics of your 510 te ?
Thanks
Michel

 

[SA63]

http://picasaweb.google.com.au/100223000876682121078/510?authkey=Gv1sRgCPmAwd66qe6oyAE#5504926214949146722[/IMG]

http://picasaweb.google.com.au/1002...key=Gv1sRgCPmAwd66qe6oyAE#5504926258686063698

 

[SA63]

http://picasaweb.google.com.au/100223000876682121078/510?authkey=Gv1sRgCPmAwd66qe6oyAE#5504926305276026082[/IMG]

All the standard 510 now with clarke tank.
-HAD a cr swingarm(I think), I welded brake link on swing arm
-head was no good ( OUCH - replacement was EXPENSIVE)
-some gears and cutch shaft had lost hardening
- came with husaberg carb (no good!)
-standard ignition(SEM) working ok
-Disc mounts had been welded on (cut off)
- Rims no good (replaced with new)new OUCh!)
-Exhaust , standard, but plan to fabricate some alloy mufflers

 

[Michel Dufayard]

Nice !
But isn't it hard to put in an 84 seat with a 83 tank ?
Michel

 

[SA63]

I cut some foam out the front on the seat where it rests on the tank so it can sit nicely against the hump of the tank. the new seat cover material stretches nicely so no problem.
This is the plastic clarke tank though. I would have liked a metal tank, but time and $...
I got the bike at the end of march, so was quite a quick resto for me.
Oh. the clutch cover was smashed and no kickstart or kick mechanism...

I saw the pictures of your bike.. I like the retro look. The white colour is not practical, especially the frame.. but I am happy it goes for now!

 

[pcnsd]

So.. i have reshimmed and rebuilt the second pair shocks without the spacer.

They feel different in the work shop pushing down on the seat, with noticable rebound now. compression still feels minimal, but will try it on the track.(Sunday)

It is similar to my ohlins suspended maico now when pushing on the seat..
Still very different to my modern bike though! (ktm 09 exc 250)(xcw) the ktm feels very hard by comparison(stock as rock)

I have another problem from taking out the 13mm shock spacer. With the length of the shock now increased, the spring is effectively shorter so on max tension on clip position I have more sag (120mm) To get back to 100mm I need a external spacer on the spring now!
So taking out the spacer hasnt lifted the height of the back of the bike, but effectively the it is sitting lower in the stroke now.

What have you done regarding this PC? and what would you recomend for the sag for the husky?

In the seconfd pair of shocks one of the negative springs was broken, and the shim supplier said they arent available now and to leave them out anyhow - so I did, and with a bigger bump stop , probably is fine - any comment?

I have the forks about 12mm out from the top of the triple clamps which is fine for cornering. the 4stroke always seems to get good front end bite compared to a 2t.

Except for spring set up and bearing wear, you can not tell about a suspension without riding it. Bouncing the suspension in a static situation will only operate the low speed damping.
The issue with the removed spacer and running out of spring preload adjustment is new to me. The spring looks new and proper except for not being long enough for preload. Is the spring the stock length? Can you return it for a longer version?
There are just three choices for this and none of them are good at this point.
1. Reinstall the 13mm spacer or a spacer with enough length to provide at least the minimum needed preload for your proper race sag.
2. Install a spacer to the upper shock between the preload collar and the spring. It will need to include a relief to match the existing spring collar and should mirror the spring side of the collar also. To the best of my experience, this will need to be custom turned. Do you have a lathe?
3. Replace the spring with a longer one in the same spring rate.

I set my race-sag at 95-100mm on the 81 430. The spring clip preload adjustment makes it difficult to be more precise. You will be ok at 95 -105mm. 120mm is too much.

Regards,
PC

 

[SA63]

Last weekend Ride report. Where to start? The track was 2km(1 ¼ mile?) of grass track with jumps,drop offs and gullies and tight to 5th gear..great track

I ended up with 90mm sag using a spacer. Ran out of time. In retrospect it is too little. The bike sits way too high- I m 6’2 and with legs straight my feet touch the ground, highest bike Ive ever been on..!!
Being too high at the back, I ended up dropping the forks to level in the triple trees level at the track.
10 -15 mm extra sag is a must
Overall the rear shocks are much better, but still have some kick back, in my opinion and of a mate riding it (i followed him as well and saw what the shocks were doing.)I want to take them one stage further rebound damping wise and ill put a 6mm spacer (yes have a lathe) back in to lower the rear end, and bring the forks back up in the clamps.
With the back improved a lot and at this track highlights problems in the front forks, bottoming out and a bit harsh at the end of the travel. So I should have put air them to make them harder on the day, but never got around to it .
Again I was on the 81 maico as well comparison – it was eating everything up with no problem..
I have been riding the maico for 6years so im pretty used to it.
It has 0.49 front springs, race tech emulators and yss adjustable piggybacks. It sits lower than the husky by a good 2inches. Looking like firmer springs and emulators are the way forward for the 510 here.
The handling is good, great engine – pulls 3rd gear starts. My was worst start was 3rd into the first corner (two stroke 500s etc and a heavily breathed on tt500 engine in a maico frame heh- heh!) and im a crap starter..but had a long start straight and she hooks up!
So back to the bench..
So PC if you want to further recomend the next stage in the damping improvements Im all ears!

 

[pcnsd]

Remember to seek the best compromise and give it a few rides to recalibrate yourself too. Best case is if you can time yourself over a known course and see if your changes are improving your times. What you think is good and what the clock says is good may well be different things.
I thought about warning regarding the ride height in the last post but did not. Sorry, the 80's Husky is a very tall ride to begin with. I think I would run at least a 7 -8mm internal spacer at this point and maybe even stick if the stock one.
The next step will be to replace the 24mm x .25mm shim in the rebound stack with a 24mm x .30mm shim.... But before you do that, I am going to urge some caution. Get the ride height and preload/race sag issues resolved and ride a couple more times. Check for stacking through acceleration bumps out of a turn (Bigger is better for this) if you go up on the valving. If you have too much rebound damping, it will present as poor hook up in the bumps.

Regards
PC

 

[Michel Dufayard]

"I saw the pictures of your bike.. I like the retro look. The white colour is not practical, especially the frame.. but I am happy it goes for now![/QUOTE]"


I like the white ones, especially the Roeseler 510 with oil radiator, uptite exhaust and the pro-circuit with alloy swingarm.

 

[SA63]

Ok will do that testing, the wrong preload cant be helping

Spacer will go back in though, will go with 8mm for now, and will check the ride height. Our prehistoric racing doesnt require a hugely tall bike in general, and what you lose in height you more than get back in cornering agility.

In some ways the track wasnt ideal for testing as it was new hence very few braking or acceleration bumps, only a few rough sections. Great for riding though!

the other bike was my main point of comparison (the maico), and watching the TE from behind with the other rider on it.

So now things are a lot closer, one change at a time only?
Moves are afoot to sort out the front..
I am 85kg by the way (187lb) so must be 205-210 in riding gear

 

[SA63]

pulled aparts shocks

 

[enduro250z]

I have another problem from taking out the 13mm shock spacer. With the length of the shock now increased, the spring is effectively shorter so on max tension on clip position I have more sag (120mm) To get back to 100mm I need a external spacer on the spring now!
So taking out the spacer hasnt lifted the height of the back of the bike, but effectively the it is sitting lower in the stroke now.

what you can do for this is fit the taller Ohlins conical bottom retainer or the 3 pos. cam preload set up. Both will reduce your distance between spring seats. Phillip at Husqvarna-parts has these parts.

 

[Picklito]

Shims and the heaviest springs are still available from Ohlins.I have been following the Ohlins chart to stiffen the damping in stages with thicker shims.

How do I get this chart? Thanks!

 

[SA63]

in the manual..if you want I can scan it and put it in,or send a pm and ill email it to you(easier)

 

[Picklito]

I'll PM ya, thanks!

Where are we buying the triangular valve plates with holes?

 

[SA63]

Bit rusty in the brain, as I did this a few years ago, but if I remember correctly the triangular shims are stock, and no longer made. I think theyre only on the rebound shim stack? a smaller shim will do the same thing or if you must have one, grind it!
I sourced my shims from an ohlins dealer here in Australia, but I imagine anyone working with them in the usa would supply you?

 

[Picklito]

There are some good Ohlins sources in the U.S. I'll post what I find out. And, yes, we have the option of starting with a round shim and trimming to the delta shape. Thanks!

 

[Picklito]

That first internal snap-ring is a bugger...

 

[SA63]

Still scratching for the manual.
I ground a small screw driver into a scoop type shape to make it get it in there easier.
You may know this but ill throw in anyway
I think you can push the seal head down a little if the piggy back reservoir is open to atmosphere to make easier to get at the circlip.- put a socket on the seal head (over the shaft)and give it a good whack .I normally tap the circlip down with a screwdriver and small hammer just enough to dislodge it, as its very hard to get in under it , and to get the seal head out I pressurize the piggyback reservoir using a mountain bike shock pump and it should pop out enough to pry it out.
Yes the first time was extremely frustratin.g....!!

 

[Picklito]

From Ohlins USA:

Thank you for your email.
Öhlins stainless steel triangle shims are available with many hole configurations (see attached sheet).
Please keep in mind, Öhlins shims are sold in bags of 25 pieces only.
Example shim price: 00185-01: 0.15 thick triangle shim with one hole: $2.48 each (x 25 pieces= $62.00)
Please call or return email with any questions & to order.


More than a little disappointing that their minimum quantity is 25. A pack of 10 I could see. Waiting for other responses.