• Hi everyone,

    As you all know, Coffee (Dean) passed away a couple of years ago. I am Dean's ex-wife's husband and happen to have spent my career in tech. Over the years, I occasionally helped Dean with various tech issues.

    When he passed, I worked with his kids to gather the necessary credentials to keep this site running. Since then (and for however long they worked with Coffee), Woodschick and Dirtdame have been maintaining the site and covering the costs. Without their hard work and financial support, CafeHusky would have been lost.

    Over the past couple of weeks, I’ve been working to migrate the site to a free cloud compute instance so that Woodschick and Dirtdame no longer have to fund it. At the same time, I’ve updated the site to a current version of XenForo (the discussion software it runs on). The previous version was outdated and no longer supported.

    Unfortunately, the new software version doesn’t support importing the old site’s styles, so for now, you’ll see the XenForo default style. This may change over time.

    Coffee didn’t document the work he did on the site, so I’ve been digging through the old setup to understand how everything was running. There may still be things I’ve missed. One known issue is that email functionality is not yet working on the new site, but I hope to resolve this over time.

    Thanks for your patience and support!

Innovate Motor Sports LC2 installation for TR650

drzcharlie

drzcharlie

Husqvarna
Pro Class
Well as many that frequent this forum know I just finished testing the AF-XIED device on my TR. And while it performed as advertised (mostly) I wanted to see to see if I could address the remaining problems that still nagged me such as the occasional lean stumble and rare miss or dead spot at high speed.

So, I started making some inquiries on the wideband o2 sensor project thread on ADV. This convinced me to try LC2 for two reasons. It will allow me to see what the Magnetti Marelli ECU is doing which will help us all and secondly to allow me to target AFR to my liking.

To see what I have done so far check here:

Part I

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=25112862&postcount=90

Part II

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=25116227&postcount=96

Part III

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=25121794&postcount=99P

Part IV

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=25128076&postcount=101

Part V

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=25138117&postcount=119

Part VI

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=25143071&postcount=123
 
Following up on the LC2 installation. Here are my observations to date:

Now that I have had the TR set at 13.2:1 ir 10% more fuel for 400 miles the bike seems to have settled into good habits. The LC2 has proven to me that the bike needs increased fueling.

1. Throttle linear with one small dead or sluggish spot accelerating out of 3rd

2. Zero and I mean NONE, NO, NADA instances of lean stumble. I have had a couple of starts in sub 50*F weather and cold or hot bike makes no difference the bike doesn't stumble or hesitate in any way.

3. Fuel consumption is up, went from 52 mpg at 13.8:1 to 45 mpg at 13.2:1

4. Shifting into 2nd is much better. Went from having to slam it in to an easy shift. Increased rpms I guess?

5. Exhaust note changed to a deeper rumble

6. Bike vibes at the bars are less except when accelerating from third gear.

7. Idle is rock steady. No hunting for idle with a steady 1500 rpm at idle

8. The "Dynoassometer" says the bike is happier, thus, the rider is happier.

At the request of several riders on Cafe Husky I am going to fit the TR with an extended bung for mounting the o2 sensor out of the exhaust stream. We will then compare the LC2 charts to see if removing the o2 sensor from the exhaust stream will make the bike run richer. I'm not sold that this idea will work. It may or maybe it won't. We will see.
 
drzcharlie said:
Following up on the LC2 installation. Here are my observations to date:

Now that I have had the TR set at 13.2:1 ir 10% more fuel for 400 miles the bike seems to have settled into good habits. The LC2 has proven to me that the bike needs increased fueling.

1. Throttle linear with one small dead or sluggish spot accelerating out of 3rd

2. Zero and I mean NONE, NO, NADA instances of lean stumble. I have had a couple of starts in sub 50*F weather and cold or hot bike makes no difference the bike doesn't stumble or hesitate in any way.

3. Fuel consumption is up, went from 52 mpg at 13.8:1 to 45 mpg at 13.2:1

4. Shifting into 2nd is much better. Went from having to slam it in to an easy shift. Increased rpms I guess?

5. Exhaust note changed to a deeper rumble

6. Bike vibes at the bars are less except when accelerating from third gear.

7. Idle is rock steady. No hunting for idle with a steady 1500 rpm at idle

8. The "Dynoassometer" says the bike is happier, thus, the rider is happier.

At the request of several riders on Cafe Husky I am going to fit the TR with an extended bung for mounting the o2 sensor out of the exhaust stream. We will then compare the LC2 charts to see if removing the o2 sensor from the exhaust stream will make the bike run richer. I'm not sold that this idea will work. It may or maybe it won't. We will see.
Click to expand...
 
Did a 250 mile ride yesterday. The bike performed well until it got hot outside (85*). Twice I got the dreaded "red triangle" of death. the bike wouldn't start. Turn the key off, and back on again all is good.

I averaged 55.09 miles per gallon using the LC2 (set at 13.2:1 AFR) on a really spirited road ride with a buddy. We did about 15 miles of gnarly dirt road at the end of our ride on the out bound leg (to check out a campsite), we stopped twice to discuss directions. After each stop the dash had an EWS code thrown. After the bike cooled down all was well. Never had that happen before.

This morning it is raining here so I will do some chain maintenance and then reset the LC2 to 13.4:1 and try that for a while.

Does anyone have thoughts about the EWS error? I don't have access to a dealer within 250 miles of here to check the code.
 
drzcharlie said:
Does anyone have thoughts about the EWS error? I don't have access to a dealer within 250 miles of here to check the code.
Click to expand...


EWS code means that the engine immobilizer is stopping the bike from starting.
A few people have reported EWS codes on their bikes, and a few different causes have been identified.

On pre-2009 BMW bikes, the usual cause of an EWS fault was a faulty antenna ring. Replace the part and the problem is fixed. I don't recall anyone on CafeHusky or ADVrider having a faulty antenna ring. Someone accidentally cut through the wiring going to their antenna ring on their TR650 which caused their bike to throw the EWS code. They fixed that by repairing the wiring.

My bike had an EWS code when it was 1 day old. That was eventually diagnosed to a faulty ECU and that unit was replaced.

Bikes with heated grips or auxiliary lights might throw an EWS error when you try to start them with the grips or lights powered on. When I first installed the lights and grips on my bike it did that, but it hasn't done it again. Not sure if the immobilizer system adapted to the new current draw or what was going on there.

A low voltage battery may cause the the EWS fault to trigger. If I'm recalling correctly, someone found that anything below 11.5v may stop the bike from starting.

Having two keys within proximity of the antenna ring may cause the immobilizer to get confused and throw the EWS error.
 
drzcharlie said:
Does anyone have thoughts about the EWS error? I don't have access to a dealer within 250 miles of here to check the code.
Click to expand...

Been playing in the headlight shell?
Check the wiring/ plug and connector-point of the ignition-lock ring antenna.
There have been at least 5 instances of guys either breaking one of the wires right at the antenna ring connection, others dislodged the plug behind the alum crossbar while fiddling around in the headlight area connecting up personal electrics and 2 guys with busted headlights after crashes, which also destroyed the ring-antenna connection as part of the crash damage.
All coming to the same result : antenna can't read code of chip in ignition key = EWS error= bike won't start.
 
So, my ongoing quest to find the correct AFR/Lambda settings continues. This afternoon after logging my current setting of 13.2:1 I decided to change AFR from 13.2:1 to 13.4:1. For the first run I didn't have the computer with me but:

1. Throttle still very linear
2. No lean pop on decel
3. No lean stall
4. Idles at about 1500 rpm
5. Much snappier on throttle roll (more immediate power)
6. The slight dead spot rolling on throttle into third is gone (peculiar to the 13.2:1 setting?)
7. Torque more immediately available now.

I would expect my mpg to improve slightly with this change. I am supposed to take a ride with friends on Sunday so I can get a read on fuel consumption at that time. I wanted to do a test log at 13.4:1 but it's now started to rain here so no computer on the bike this afternoon.

Now that I know the LC2 is doing good things for my bike I am going to try and adjust for the best performance and fuel economy balance I can find.

Temperature here is 80F with 96% humidity and the barometer is at 29.91 and falling.
 
I changed the AFR a few days ago to 13.45:1 and rode 250 miles or so since the change. The bike continues to exhibit good habits. The "DynoAssometer" felt a much improved seat of the pants experience. I am amazed at how well the LC2 and the MM ECU play together. Adjustments seem very quick often within 10 minutes of riding. The LC2 continues to prove to me that the TR needs increased fueling.

1. Throttle linear with smooth roll on, no dead spots. Torque all across the power curve and it's delivered without bog or hesitation of any kind.

2. Starting is easy and immediate. It used to take maybe three cranks to fire up now you barely touch the starter button and voila' you have a running engine.

3. Fuel consumption is slightly improved using an AFR of 13.45:1. The mileage on this run was 55.05 mpg.

4. Shifting into 2nd continues to be slightly better but still bit clunky, does anyone else have that experience? Is it a TR650 trait?

5. The exhaust note did not change from the last AFR setting. It still has a deeper rumble compared to stock AFR

6. Vibes at the bars are noticeably less except when accelerating from third gear. So this observation remains the same

7. Idle is rock steady. No hunting for idle with a steady 1500 rpm at idle

8. Now for the biggie. I got an occasional EWS error again. After the last run where I got the EWS errors I checked all of the ancillary equipment I put on the bike. The builders box with the resistor bank, my solder joints (checked for cold solder joints), wire routing, etc and yada, yada. I did catch a loose plug leading to the ECU last time and presumed that was the reason I was showing an EWS error and thought the problem was solved.

On this ride it appeared again. It's sort of weird condition really. I turn the key on and if I don't push the starter button for about 30 seconds or so I get the EWS error appearing on the dash and the bike will not turn over. I've learned that I can clear the error by turning the key off and back on again and the bike starts and runs normally.

Regarding this issue, I've been speaking to Roger via email. He is considering that the o2 sensor heater voltages might be the culprit here. If they are, it's an easy fix. The voltage can be reprogrammed using the LC2. This however will be determined with some live log readings tomorrow.

More later.
 
I changed the AFR a few days ago to 13.45:1 and rode 250 miles or so since the change. The bike continues to exhibit good habits. The "DynoAssometer" felt a much improved seat of the pants experience. I am amazed at how well the LC2 and the MM ECU play together. Adjustments seem very quick often within 10 minutes of riding. The LC2 continues to prove to me that the TR needs increased fueling.

1. Throttle linear with smooth roll on, no dead spots. Torque all across the power curve and it's delivered without bog or hesitation of any kind.

2. Starting is easy and immediate. It used to take maybe three cranks to fire up now you barely touch the starter button and voila' you have a running engine.

3. Fuel consumption is slightly improved using an AFR of 13.45:1. The mileage on this run was 55.05 mpg.

4. Shifting into 2nd continues to be slightly better but still bit clunky, does anyone else have that experience? Is it a TR650 trait?

5. The exhaust note did not change from the last AFR setting. It still has a deeper rumble compared to stock AFR

6. Vibes at the bars are noticeably less except when accelerating from third gear. So this observation remains the same

7. Idle is rock steady. No hunting for idle with a steady 1500 rpm at idle

8. Now for the biggie. I got an occasional EWS error again. After the last run where I got the EWS errors I checked all of the ancillary equipment I put on the bike. The builders box with the resistor bank, my solder joints (checked for cold solder joints), wire routing, etc and yada, yada. I did catch a loose plug leading to the ECU last time and presumed that was the reason I was showing an EWS error and thought the problem was solved.

On this ride it appeared again. It's sort of weird condition really. I turn the key on and if I don't push the starter button for about 30 seconds or so I get the EWS error appearing on the dash and the bike will not turn over. I've learned that I can clear the error by turning the key off and back on again and the bike starts and runs normally.

EDIT: IT WAS A LOW BATTERY FROM ALL OF MY STATIC ADJUSTMENTS AND SETUPS FOR LOGGING. ALL IS OK NOW.

More later.
 
Regarding my last post. I just came back from logging the new setting. If anyone wants to load Log Works it's free. You can get the Log Works software here. Once the software is loaded, and assuming that you want to see the log for this run, click on this THIS LINK. Please note that if you do not download Log Works, you will not be able view the log. You will see a message when you click open the log. Just "X" out of that window and the log will be shown.

Impressions with this run:

1. No lean stumble
2. Rock steady idle but the rpm's have changed from 1600 to 1500 rpms
3. No lean pop on decel
4. The "Dynoassometer" reveals no differences from the previous setting.
5. The third gear bog is back but just slightly and is almost undetectable
6. Vibes are the same, no change. Smooth as silk
7. No miles per gallon observation as this was just a 10 mile run.

Weather: Temperature 79*F, Humidity 34%, Barometer 29.86 steady.

EDIT: I am doing a camp and ride this weekend with loop of about 200 miles +/-. I will report mileage once I have returned. For those following the progress with the LC2, it is a process. A fairly long process without a 911 tool working for our bike. So bear with me as I muddle through this. I would suggest that if you are thinking about getting an LC2 you should be downloading Log Works and try to get familiar with how the logs work. The link to this log is shown above
 
Well I'm back from the weekend camp and ride. My observations:

1. The bike ran fantastic! Best ever, absolutely flawless (almost)
2. No stumbles
3. Extreme torque throughout the power band
4. You could not make the bike "chug" if you lugged it. Still very smooth at crawling speed
5. It had a very, very slight bog into third but you would have to ride it before to know it.
6. Shifting was very smooth
7. Idle at 1600 rpm with no hunting on start while warming
8. MPG at this setting: 56.85 (not bad)

Temperature: 45* at ride time, 45% humidity, Barometer 29.87 steady

I did have some problems though. I ended up having three EWS error events. The new events were like those of my previous ride. Sort of a weird situation, I got the red triangle twice, steady, no blinking. But unlike last time turning the key off and back on again didn't allow me to start the bike or clear the condition this time.

The third time I turned the key off/on the triangle cleared and I could start the bike.

It is definitely an electrical issue. I've not had a chance to make battery voltage yet but will today. It was low last Thursday, and I re-charged to 14.58 volts and it held. This time my gut is telling me it's a different behaviour and I am leaning toward key switch radio antenna ring maybe?
 
drzcharlie said:
Well I'm back from the weekend camp and ride. My observations:

1. The bike ran fantastic! Best ever, absolutely flawless (almost)
2. No stumbles
3. Extreme torque throughout the power band
4. You could not make the bike "chug" if you lugged it. Still very smooth at crawling speed
5. It had a very, very slight bog into third but you would have to ride it before to know it.
6. Shifting was very smooth
7. Idle at 1600 rpm with no hunting on start while warming
8. MPG at this setting: 56.85 (not bad)

Temperature: 45* at ride time, 45% humidity, Barometer 29.87 steady

I did have some problems though. I ended up having three EWS error events. The new events were like those of my previous ride. Sort of a weird situation, I got the red triangle twice, steady, no blinking. But unlike last time turning the key off and back on again didn't allow me to start the bike or clear the condition this time.

The third time I turned the key off/on the triangle cleared and I could start the bike.

It is definitely an electrical issue. I've not had a chance to make battery voltage yet but will today. It was low last Thursday, and I re-charged to 14.58 volts and it held. This time my gut is telling me it's a different behaviour and I am leaning toward key switch radio antenna ring maybe?
Click to expand...

Are you charging with an external 120v charger?

Anyway, what you can do is measure voltage key on. The hook up the charger key on and measure. Then unhook charger and fire bike up and measure. Do not charge the battery in this process, as you are checking to see how much the bike charges vs how much the plug in charger charges.

I suspect the plug in will take the voltage up higher than the bikes system, giving you a false indication of the batteries abilities.

In short, the bikes electrical is sufficient when the battery is good. With the battery fading as I suspect it is, you need the mega volts to bring it up, but eventually it cannot hold on with the stock charging system.

Another thing you could try is if you have a variable voltage source. Pull the battery, and see at what voltage you get the error and when it doesn't. Might be that circuit is weak. Meaning, my bike may be fine at 12 volt and error out at 11.9. Your bike might be fine at 12.5 and error out at 12.4. (arbitrary numbers)

My money is on the battery. I have thought about buying one of the little 12v lifepo batteries just to carry as a spare. It would not be enough to crank the bike, but it would be enough to light up the system to push start. The lifepo can sit for a half year and still be full charge, and it is light weight and small. For you guys with the stock BMW battery at or over a year old, I highly recommend that or jumper cables LOL. If your by yourself, jumper cables wont help.

Oh, and just as a caution, the longer you tax your alternator the more strain and damage you are doing to the system. It pull alot of current to charge a bad battery.
 
Thanks Dave,

You are preaching to the choir when you talk about over taxing the stator. I had six of them in my DRZ over 5 years. I was looking at your battery when you posted the picture earlier. What specific model battery is that? I know the brand, what I am looking for is the model please.

Thanks in advance.
 
drzcharlie said:
Thanks Dave,

You are preaching to the choir when you talk about over taxing the stator. I had six of them in my DRZ over 5 years. I was looking at your battery when you posted the picture earlier. What specific model battery is that? I know the brand, what I am looking for is the model please.

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

They don't have models. Just a 4-8-12 cell. http://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/ballistic-performance-8-cell-evo2-battery.

In your case, you may want to go to the 12 cell to be safe. My 8 cell seems fine. I have let the bike sit for a month or more, no issue starting. Never had to do an extended cranking either. Never been on the charger.
 
drzcharlie said:
I've read that cold weather causes problems for these batteries. Any truth to that?
Click to expand...

Probably. How cold do you ride?

The easy remedy is to turn on the ignition and let the light draw power for a little, to warm the battery. I would go for the 12 cell in this instance.

I had an Odyssey Battery in my R100gs and I really liked that one. http://shop.odysseybattery.com/p/pc680-p They may make one that fits the Terra. AGM does not do as well in the desert heat they say, yet I have the Gates Optima Marine (blue top) and that keeps kicking after 15 years. Regular lead acid lasts about 1-2 years and has to be changed.

So they say the lifepo batteries don't like the cold, oh well... or overcharging. The stock charging system is just fine, but if you put it on a charger, you really have to watch it. I don't have a balance charger.

The weight savings is totally worth it to me, the space savings is added bonus but not really. I'm hoping to get 10 or more years out of it.
 
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