Flaming out, cough stalls and false neutrals, 14 250r

[JAM]

I found, so far-keeping my fingers, toes, and eyes crossed; that .74volts / (40) clicks out -ccw from fully in cw on the idle adjust works.

 

[JAM]

Been a real PIA having a new bike with lot of bugs... THANK YOU B I G time to Ty Davis & my local / no-longer a Husky dealer for being there! I can not say enough good things about the Zip-Ty Racing folks. My only complaint is they are on the opposite side of the US. :0)
THANK YOU again Ty Davis!

 

[JimBob]

Are you saying that the cold start/idle button adjusts the TPS voltage? Simply turning the knob changes the voltage?

 

[JimBob]

Are you saying the cold start/idle adjust knob changes the TPS voltage? Turing the idle adjustment alters the TPS?

 

[JAM]

Are you saying the cold start/idle adjust knob changes the TPS voltage? Turing the idle adjustment alters the TPS?

No. The TPS is adjusted by loosening he Torx25 screw that holds the TPS on the (L) side of the carb- below the idle / air adjustment screw. You can not accurately set the TPS without using either iBeat, a voltmeter / the connection shown on the TPSTOOL page, or a computer connection.
See video for detailed explanation.

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JWclkhd6weU

 

[rschneider]

I just wanted to add to this. I ran into JAM while I was out riding today. He had his tools with him so we adjusted the TPS on my 2014 TXC310, and I took it out for a test run. Adjusting my TPS from the factory setting of .58vdc to .71vdc made a very noticeable difference. While I wasn't have a huge problem with flame outs, they only would occur occasionally when trying to accelerate from too low of an RPM/ too high of a gear. I am also going to add that I have over 1000mi on the bike already, the flame outs were much more of an issue when the bike was new. The problems that I was having were an issue with a lean pop when i chopped the throttle, And the power felt very weak through the mid range. After the adjustment I noticed that there was lot more off idle and mid range power, to the point I gave myself a nice oh s%@t moment when I grabbed a handful of throttle and the bike jump a lot faster than I was expecting. I tried accelerating out of corners a gear or two to high and getting on the throttle hard to see if it would stall, the bike just pulled with no issues. The lean pop, if its still there, is virtually unnoticeable. I was at the point that I was going to try an aftermarket exhaust and get to ECU reflashed to the race map to get rid of the lean pop and fill in the mid range power. I think, at least for now, simply adjusting the TPS gave everything I was looking for. The great thing is, is that it is cheap and easy to do. Especially if you run into someone who has already bought the wiring harness adapter that makes this so easy. Thanks again JAM.

 

[rabskyline]

Mine will flame out at low revs in technical rocky terrain.
Its my only gripe, love it otherwise(as did my mate who owns a 300 Kato)

Edit, no shortage of power , lugs well and mid to top, it absolutely hauls arse !
No complaints on power delivery etc at all.

 

[rschneider]

I guess the power issue is relative, I am a fairly big guy, 6'5" 225-230lbs. I was looking for a little more midrange grunt to pull some of the bigger hills and get better drive out of corners. And while, I did have some issues with pop stalls/ flame outs. I doesn't seem like it was as big of an issue for my TXC as it is for TE owners. And I was purposely trying to get it stall and it didn't. I guess, to sum it up. Its a fairly easy thing to try. It might not work for everyone, but in my case, I gave me what I was looking for.

Edit:
Thinking about this today. I don't think that anyone has said why it would make a difference. Or why you would want to do it. I am going to try and sum up what I think it does. And why it makes a difference. Keep in mind that I am fairly new rider and am still learning. Feel free to correct me on anything. I am going to make a lot of assumptions here.

First: Lets think about the symptoms. Pop stalls/ flame outs(this happens when transitioning from closed throttle to open quickly at a low rpm), decel pop, and in my case, what I felt was weak midrange power. We can also throw in here, running hot. Since a lean condition will cause a motor to run at a higher temp.

Now if, I am understanding what I have read correctly. These could all be symptoms of a lean condition.

Second: Why adjusting the TPS would make a difference. Assuming the TPS is just a potentiometer. By slightly advancing the TPS you are increasing the voltage signal to the ECU telling it to increase the fuel flow. This should increase the fuel flow at any given throttle opening across the RPM range of the motor. Again, assuming the TPS is a potentiometer, and that its output is linear. What ever % you advance it by, should see a corresponding increase in fuel flow at any point on the curve for the fuel map.

Also assuming that the TPS is a potentiometer. I see no reason why you couldn't make the adjustment by just taking a resistance reading off the TPS plug, instead of using the wiring harness adaptor and a voltage reading, that JAM and myself used.

Of course, this is also assuming that you are running one of the open loop maps, and not the stock TE map(which I believe is closed loop and uses the o2 sensor for map correction).

See, I told you guys I was going make a lot of assumptions. If anyone is interested, I can take the time to test my theory on using a resistance reading for the adjustment vs a voltage reading. Or if I am just plan wrong, tell me that to.


Second edit: Changed open loop, closed loop on Johnrg's input.

 

[JAM]

Hum - Seem reasonable. I have been riding since 1978 , but this EFI thing is a humbling experience to say the least.
I am thrilled that there is such a great resource as the Cafe Husky to help us. Knowing many of our dealers of many years are no longer authorized Husky dealers leaves limited options. I am extremely immersed with Zip Ty Racing and their interest to support, as others on this forum. Those of us still want to ride these bikes! I was ready to chunk the whole thing, and am now thrilled with riding!
Again, thanks for the help from this forum!

 

[Johnrg]

Reverse open and closed. Closed would be the TE. Once you power up you go to open loop (map 3 on the 13/14 is open even if the O2 is present as it ignores it). As well, the engine may run open loop until the sensor warms up.

 

[rabskyline]

I'll give the tps a go, mine also seems to flame out more in hot single trails.

 

[JimBob]

Jam,
Excellent info and great video. So on your previous post you were saying .74 volts on the TPS combined with 40 turns out on the idle produced good results for you, correct? Please verify that this setting applied to your 2014 TE310. My bike idles perfectly at 34 turns out, should I expect that to change as the TPS voltage is increased? We'll be increasing fuel in the mixture but will that necessarily impact idle speed? My buddy just got a steal of a deal on a new 2014 TE310. It was surging at idle. When I checked the idle position I found the dealer had set it to 47 turns out. I adjusted it to 34 and the now the bike purrs at idle. We have a harness coming so we can test our TPS settings. I know mine has been changed as the paint marks do not line up. The video shows the connector on the KTM at the throttle body under the rubber housing. Does the TE310 have a connector in the same position or is the connector under the tank at by the ecu?

 

[rschneider]

I know you were asking JAM, but I think I can answer the question for you. On his 14 TE310R the setting he was running was .74vdc on the TPS and 40 clicks on the idle adjustment. On my 14 TXC310R, I am at .71vdc on the TPS and 37 clicks on the idle adjustment. The idle adjust seemed to act like a mixture screw. As we increased to fuel flow we also had to open the idle adjustment up to allow more air flow. The connector is kind of tucked up under the side of the tank. You can get to it without removing tank. Its a little tight, but doable. We made the adjustment to mine in the parking lot at the trailhead in just a few minutes. I am kind of interested to see what others find as the factory settings, and where they end up adjusting it to. And how the different base maps effect the setting.

 

[JAM]

Jam,
Excellent info and great video. So on your previous post you were saying .74 volts on the TPS combined with 40 turns out on the idle produced good results for you, correct? Please verify that this setting applied to your 2014 TE310. My bike idles perfectly at 34 turns out, should I expect that to change as the TPS voltage is increased? We'll be increasing fuel in the mixture but will that necessarily impact idle speed? My buddy just got a steal of a deal on a new 2014 TE310. It was surging at idle. When I checked the idle position I found the dealer had set it to 47 turns out. I adjusted it to 34 and the now the bike purrs at idle. We have a harness coming so we can test our TPS settings. I know mine has been changed as the paint marks do not line up. The video shows the connector on the KTM at the throttle body under the rubber housing. Does the TE310 have a connector in the same position or is the connector under the tank at by the ecu?

I second what rschneider posted. Could not have said it better.
I have the Db buster in my silencer, as I am underwhelmed with loud..., so perhaps your setting will differ? Like rschneider said- give us your feedback so we can learn from it.
PS- Thanks to rschneider for providing some reasons for me to go out and spend money on my new TE310R. Nothing like seeing what others are doing to their bikes to make you fuel the economy.

 

[JAM]

I know you were asking JAM, but I think I can answer the question for you. On his 14 TE310R the setting he was running was .74vdc on the TPS and 40 clicks on the idle adjustment. On my 14 TXC310R, I am at .71vdc on the TPS and 37 clicks on the idle adjustment. The idle adjust seemed to act like a mixture screw. As we increased to fuel flow we also had to open the idle adjustment up to allow more air flow. The connector is kind of tucked up under the side of the tank. You can get to it without removing tank. Its a little tight, but doable. We made the adjustment to mine in the parking lot at the trailhead in just a few minutes. I am kind of interested to see what others find as the factory settings, and where they end up adjusting it to. And how the different base maps effect the setting.


View attachment 46342

I think the idle adjustment is actually an air mixture screw and affects all RPM ranges / increased, or decrease air added to the mix. If this is incorrect I am hoping someone on the forum will chime in.

 

[Tinken]

I guess the power issue is relative, I am a fairly big guy, 6'5" 225-230lbs.

Did you have the LeoVince map loaded? Even with this map, the bikes run on the lean side.

 

[Johnrg]

My dyno map and final autotune table/map say otherwise. Below is my final sea level map based upon the Open LV Map 3. To me anyway, it appears slightly rich except in a couple of places/cells. This is with the stock pipe with cat removed. The only time I had some flame out was at over 9-13k feet of elevation and so I attribute that to the richness shown at 2-10% throttle and low revs. I'de bump the idle screw out 2-4 turns at those elevations and keep an active throttle hand on technical downhills using the clutch to avoid a stall. Heading north for a week or two to elevation and will generate a map there and see what Autotune says about it.

 

[JAM]

Did you have the LeoVince map loaded? Even with this map, the bikes run on the lean side.

I was told by the dealer that he loaded the middle map- MAP 2? I am curious with the ability to make changes to different ranges on the RPM; e.g., add more low end grunt and lessen the hit. Is the PCV, or JD Tuner my best option?

 

[JAM]

Riding a gear higher, 4th vs. 3rd on most of the trail seems to be a lot easier at the end of the ride, and actually I feel I am going faster- okay I realize that is a relative term...

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2Zkd_hBRpY

 

[Johnrg]

I debated the JD and inquired with Tinken before approaching Dynojet. JD is seat of the pants tuninig unless you have some figures from a dyno tuned bike and you get to tune in segments like you would a carb... pilot, needle, needle position and main. PCV gives you a finer breakdown as shown in the table above. So you have more exacting control as well as Accel. Pump and TPS and AFR adjustments. Then there is Autotune, your dyno on the trail.

I have a feeling Map 2 slots between stock and Map 3 and could be slightly leaner than 3. PCV seems to put you in the drivers seat as they say.