clutch dragging and adjustment help

[dukkman]

Briggs and Stratton engine oil is straight 30.

 

[fran...k.]

The two half rounds or clutch cams I posted are what I have removed from these vintage bikes. The true half round is the earlier. I did fix one of the true half rounds with hardfacing welding rod at one time. I would have to inspect the rods (clutch push) to see if any have the profile in the re posted cropped picture. I would think a squared off end ought to go on the clutch end if only one end is that way. This one has me wondering what is inside my 99 te410 engine. From the parts sheets it looks as if a protusion was added to the bottom and a bushing where it seems to me the bulk of the wear would be on these. I did do one of the sealed bearings with the seal kind of glued back on top of that on one of mine.

 

[400rally]

I have used Castrol 20w 50, gear oil 140w GL1,gear oil 80w 90 and 30w , and the engine is still slipping when i accelerate, it slips more with the castrol and less with the 80w90, do i need to open the clutch cover and disassemble, or do you suggest another type of oil like Transmission fluid?

 

[silverstreakNZ]

my cr 500 wont find nuteral when stationary but it really doesnt matter . it will find it really easily when rolling back to the pits and it becomes a habbit for every bike anyway .


i wouldnt call it dragging . dragging is when it pulls the bike forward

you have a big angry motor and a gearbox designed to put up with the abuse behind it so i think its acceptable if it wont find neutral at idle like a gn125

 

[husqyhamm]

Finding neutral when stationary on 500s and 510s is a bitch, period. Do it on the roll.

You have 7plate baskets, 8plate baskets, thick clutch plates, thinner ones, allu discs, steel discs and the sintered 4T clutches. Also the flat and radius cams as well as the scalloped ones on 4Ts from the 90s. Push rods with a bullet end and ones with a flat end, different lengths. At least 4 different spring rates to use too. Variety of cam lever lengths.
Magura levers have 30mm fulcrum, and moderns like Domino have 26mm.

With all the above ive built many clutches with the only criteria being
1) pull, as comfortable as possible for application.
2) bike must be able to idle with clutch pulled standing still
3) zero slip under max accelleration on hardpack or asphalt.

Neutral is the least of your concerns on a ripping 500

 

[suprize]

I have used Castrol 20w 50, gear oil 140w GL1,gear oil 80w 90 and 30w , and the engine is still slipping

Oils!! these gearboxes are not designed to take heavy industrial car gear oils like a straight 80 -90.
Im using ATF -F (for the early ford Borgwarner auto) and the transmission and clutch are like butter.

A lot of guys use tractor fluid ? i assume this is for the hydraulics on general tractors.

You may have coated your plates with a friction modifier if you have used a heavy gear oil. i would do a kero degrease of your gearbox (dont start it!! just pull the clutch in and kick it over a fair bit) then refill with ATF -F or a straight 20 wt oil. Make sure you have the clutch free play ok. back off the bar end adjuster to make sure the clutch has free play at the arm and isnt holding some tension on. good luck.

i pulled my clutch down and scuffed up the plates with some wet and dry on petrol to deglaze them and it has been excellent for a husky clutch on a 400. i CAN select neutral at idle....

 

[400rally]

I have used Castrol 20w 50, gear oil 140w GL1,gear oil 80w 90 and 30w , and the engine is still slipping

Oils!! these gearboxes are not designed to take heavy industrial car gear oils like a straight 80 -90.
Im using ATF -F (for the early ford Borgwarner auto) and the transmission and clutch are like butter.

A lot of guys use tractor fluid ? i assume this is for the hydraulics on general tractors.

You may have coated your plates with a friction modifier if you have used a heavy gear oil. i would do a kero degrease of your gearbox (dont start it!! just pull the clutch in and kick it over a fair bit) then refill with ATF -F or a straight 20 wt oil. Make sure you have the clutch free play ok. back off the bar end adjuster to make sure the clutch has free play at the arm and isnt holding some tension on. good luck.

i pulled my clutch down and scuffed up the plates with some wet and dry on petrol to deglaze them and it has been excellent for a husky clutch on a 400. i CAN select neutral at idle....

Will Do Thanks.

 

[400rally]

To update my engine slipping problem, SOLVED, i replace the oil with ATF(thanks for the tip, suprize)and checked that the pushrod had no free play so i disassemble the clutch check the discs OK and found that the pushrod was not the original so i replace it, and now works perfectly

 

[suprize]

ideal result, just change that atf pretty regularly is the tip

 

[Tinken]

You may also use a 0w40. This will float the plates better when cold and still maintain proper oil thickness when hot. I would suggest replacing the push rod as well as the multi-grade oil.

 

[justintendo]

anyone know if i can sneak out the seal and shaft out of the top of the case which taking my clutch apart? i just reassembled everything but have the bearing upgrade coming to replace the rubber seal..i guess i could always try it and if i have to pull the pressure plate and rod out so be it..

 

[suprize]

if you have enough freeplay at the lever, you should be able to. lie the bike clutch down so the rod falls away from the pivot!

 

[justintendo]

thats what im thinking..should be just enough with the cable off....not that the lil 250 doesnt already have a pretty light clutch..the bearing upgrade sounds like a pretty cool mod from andy

 

[justintendo]

Excellent Andy, thanks for chiming in! That cam, being as small as it is, will make large movements of the pushrod with relatively little rotation I would guess. But if the surface is worn, then I suppose you would get unacceptable pushrod movement no matter how tight you have the cable adjusted...just won't get quite enough plate separation to prevent the dreaded drag. In theory anyway. Worth looking into, or resurfacing if possible. I wonder if this isn't the cause of what appears to be a pretty common symptom of these 'ol bikes?
Any input on the proper sealed bearing size that will fit this shaft and case bore?

6900 rs

 

[speedyauto]

I played with my 85 500 on the weekend & had the same problem, I realized I had used my 4stroke engine oil when I filled it. So I drained it & put the ATF fluid in I normally use in it & presto problem gone.
PS-- I also use an adapted magura hydraulic clutch which makes it really nice to use.

 

[Tinken]

The thinner oils float the plates better at cool temperatures.

 

[justintendo]

the steel plates i got from phillip work EXCELLENT! it came with barnett frictions and i guess everyone here hates barnett?? i have used their kits in street bikes and they held up and functioned great! kinda concerned about it but it seems to work as well as it ever has. doing the adjustment on the pushrod it vital! i can find neutral while running easily as well...im still using the original factory springs

 

[suprize]

looking for a new set of plates and was wondering re the steels ...no more!! will order thx

 

[silverstreakNZ]

yeah my clutch started slipping at the end of a day of riding . was the first meeting since i got it running again with gtx diesel 15-40 in it . think the total clutch stack was near minimum height anyway . so ill prolly replace it . so what are the arguments regarding steel v alloy plates ?

 

[justintendo]

where is your clutch slipping? slipping at takeoff tends to be the friction plates and slipping under load at higher speeds tends to be a spring/holding pressure issue..