250 2 stroke KTM freeride...

[rasputin]

Love it. Would make a killer trail/play bike. Hope they build it in the same factory making the smaller Dukes so the price isn't sky high and they bring it to the States.

that bike's built from ktm and wp parts. it's surely assembled in austria.

maybe it doesnt have an expansion chamber because its injected

no, it's not injected.
apart from mixing air with fuel in a different way, injected two-stroke engines are similar to carbed engines. they, too, depend on a tuned pipe, too, in order to get that "two-.stroke power".

r

edit: here's a dyno sheet (and noise numbers) of a freeride 350 versus a 350sx-f. it's a little bit off-topic here, but anyway... the two-stroke engines are likely to follow the same philosophy.

 

[Tinken]

It has a number of interesting features: no powervalve, old style spring clutch, adjustable footpegs, hybrid trials style tires and composite subframe. KTM puts the weight about 20 pounds under the 2014 250xcw model and about 15 less than the 350 version. The one thing that I expected and don’t see, is any mention of cleaner emissions.

This is a pretty cool platform. The one thing I would change is the old style spring clutch, a newer dds clutch is smaller, light weight and absolutely bullet proof. I don't really see less emissions on this carbureted model, emissions could be greatly reduced using throttle body injection like that of which is already used on the four strokes and with very little investment of time and money.

 

[guscycle]

....FUGLY....

 

[duggoey]

that bike's built from ktm and wp parts. it's surely assembled in austria.


no, it's not injected.
apart from mixing air with fuel in a different way, injected two-stroke engines are similar to carbed engines. they, too, depend on a tuned pipe, too, in order to get that "two-.stroke power".

r

edit: here's a dyno sheet (and noise numbers) of a freeride 350 versus a 350sx-f. it's a little bit off-topic here, but anyway... the two-stroke engines are likely to follow the same philosophy.
View attachment 30581

I thought that the purpose of a tuned pipe is to scavenge fuel that escapes from the exhaust port when the new charge of air/fuel mix enters the cylinder. On the "new type" of cylinder direct injection 2 strokes the need for a tuned pipe would be negated? I.e. the fuel is sprayed into the cylinder after the exhaust port is shut from the piston.
It looks like it is carbed in the image of the motor though . Sorry for hijacking the thread.

 

[juicypips]

yeh it was my bad an ignorance, your correct on scavaging effects. but the bike is carb so they must have done some funky cad design and dyno work to get lowdown torque.

 

[Kyle Tarry]

I thought that the purpose of a tuned pipe is to scavenge fuel that escapes from the exhaust port when the new charge of air/fuel mix enters the cylinder. On the "new type" of cylinder direct injection 2 strokes the need for a tuned pipe would be negated?

The pipe isn't there to scavenge just fuel. It's there to force fuel AND air back into the chamber, significantly improving VE. At the right engine speed and throttle angle, a tuned pipe works a bit like forced induction (the same applies to 4-strokes as well, by the way).

This bike also doesn't have a power valve, which is interesting.

It's a cool concept, but I'm not sure how I feel about it. It would also really depend on the price. It's not a light as I would have hoped, and the lack of a power valve might mean it's not very zippy up top...

 

[Ogre_fl]

With that long exhaust tract before the smallish expansion chamber a power valve wouldn't do much anyway.
My undertanding of a power valve is to create a longer tract before the chamber for better low end power, but then switch over for a shorter tract at higher RPM's for power up top.

This one is set up like a trials engine.
Long exhaust tract, minimal expansion chamber, lots of low end.
Its not going to turn snappy on top.

 

[robertaccio]

an everymans trials bike in the vein of G-G Pampera and others.
The before KTM quasi trials bike
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/b...ke-Reviews/Gas-Gas/Gas-Gas-Pampera-2001-2005/


ps that bike certainly has an expansion chamber type pipe on it. trials bike type 2 ts dont use the big fatty that regular 2t machine uses, that kind of exhaust pipe is not needed for this application. Look at any top tier enduro 2t they all have long headers into small expansion chambers.

 

[Kyle Tarry]

My undertanding of a power valve is to create a longer tract before the chamber for better low end power, but then switch over for a shorter tract at higher RPM's for power up top.

Power valves also very significantly change port timing. It's not just about pipe length.

 

[rasputin]

the lack of a power valve might mean it's not very zippy up top...

i guess that the power curve of that bike is quite similar to the four-stroke version. it would be a mix between and enduro and a trial engine. you don't need a powervalve or tuned pipe to achieve that performance. but i don't fully understand why one such performance would require a "power kit" that is not road-legal.

r

 

[Kyle Tarry]

you don't need a powervalve or tuned pipe to achieve that performance

With a 2-stroke, you need a tuned pipe to do anything better than idle.

Tuned pipes and expansion chambers are not equivalent.

 

[rasputin]

Tuned pipes and expansion chambers are not equivalent.

thank you. i just saw that i confused those two terms twice in this topic. sorry for that.

r

 

[Motosportz]

The Scorpa T-ride and long ride are similar type machines and get zero press but have been out for years.

 

[Radbuster]

Crap!
I just realized the Freeride 250R is the bike I need and want.
And on this side of the pond it will be quite cheap.
That seriously screws up my planning

 

[Radbuster]

Relief!
The new realization is that for the 1st-2nd-3rd gear trails around here a WB165 with 200 pipe is needed.
Good try KTM, maybe next time.

 

[organ donor]

We don't really need the negativity. If you do not like something just move on...

Ok I´ll just move on ....

 

[Motosportz]

Relief!
The new realization is that for the 1st-2nd-3rd gear trails around here a WB165 with 200 pipe is needed.
Good try KTM, maybe next time.

Bingo. I have yet to try a bike of any kind I like more than my WB165 husky for the woods. Period.

 

[Motosportz]

Hope they build it in the same factory making the smaller Dukes so the price isn't sky high and they bring it to the States.

Thats what they SHOULD do.

 

[Motosportz]

This should be on par to a vintage trials bike that you could buy for $2,500.

Well except for real suspension travel, real dirt bike trans ratios (ever ridden a trials bike?), real seat, full sized brakes which will work for speed, a light, correct for dirt bike riding geometry... on and on. IMHO it seems to split the trials bike and dirt bike thing nicely which a lot of my riding buddies seem to think is a good idea. Kinda a blend of all the good attributes of both focused for more play riding and exploring and less racing. I see it kinda like a modern IT175. Smaller, gentle, useful, fun, trail bike. 204 lbs is less than our beloved 125's or about the same as some.

When I worked at Fastway there was a GG300 trials bike that I had access too. I rode it a few times with my off road buddies. Once because I noticed my bike was messed up when loading it. IMHO there are a lot of things that need addressed to ride them in a dirtbike like manner verses a trials bike manner. The transmission does not work well with the first 4 gears super tight and the last one or two way out there. The brakes heat up quick at high speeds. The suspension is all wrong (not enough damping by design for hopping), the geometry is to quick, the forks are to flimsy, the bike is to short, the motor is odd (all bottom and torque but no real power), etc. It worked good at the super tight gnar as expected but was a huge compromise in everything else.

 

[Xcuvator]

From what I see and read I like the idea.
Let's see some testing.