Discussion in 'TR650' started by roscotom, Oct 27, 2012.
This one was a bit further east, around Noojee area. Loads of good spots around..
Good ride today. Two totally different rides, both fun. Not a lick of trouble, both running perfect. Just need to add the extra fan on each before summer hits.
IMHO a second fan is not necessary.
We are running several TR650s here in Philippines with ambient air temperatures up to 40c and even as high as 55c in city traffic.
None of the bikes has a second fan, but we all have the thermostat delete to ensure 100% radiator efficiency.
We do not have any overheating problems to necessitate fitting of a second fan.
It's amazing how familiar the countryside out of Tuscon looks to me. My photo taken about 35 miles north of my home in Melbourne Australia. I had the same eerie feeling of familiarity riding down Hwy 49 in California a couple of years ago.
The thermostat is for keeping the engine at a constant temp, the extra fan will keep the radiator coolant at a lower temp than what the engine/thermostat requires. Thus, when thermostat gets warm enough to flow, the radiator coolant is lower temp to quench the heat.
I have checked with my 911, and the fan does not kick on until 103º C. How is the thermostat to keep the engine under boiling temp if the coolant is already past boiling.
The temp gauge should be constant once warmed up. It is a factory issue, which can only be remedied by an aux fan or switch which bypasses ecu control. T-stat delete is not needed if the radiator is cooling down the liquids within, and that won't happen sitting in traffic with no air movement or until the fan kicks on at 103º C which is past boiling.
If you are running without some sort of thermostat, you are damaging the engine, maybe only a little, but damaging none the less.
In a moderate climate that does not see cold weather, you may not have the issues as those who drive at freezing or near freezing temps without a T-stat.
To my knowledge there is not any passenger vehicle (liquid cooled) that is manufactured without a thermostat. Do the math. And it is not just about emissions either. Every car I have owned, even pre smog had a thermostat.
It has to do with metallurgy and expansion.
If you look at the right side of the photo and zoom in, it says Tucson 50 Kilometers. Did you know our interstate is one of the few measured in kilometers in the USA. Yep, I'll fit right in down under in the Land of Oz, mate.
But what we don't have is that big reef thing along the coast. I so want to spend a month or so diving that. I could drive a couple hundred miles into Mexico and dive, but still nothing like your reef.
Question, have you ever driven the "longest shortcut" across the island? Is there enough gas along the way or do you have to really pack mule it?
To be honest I had to google that to find out what you were talking about. Cairns to Perth across the centre of Australia. Its one of those trips that I don't actually hear about people doing. One end is 3000km away and the is 3500km away so that probably explains the lack of familiarity. I guess if you were living in Tucson that'd be like a trip from Winnipeg to Miami. I think fuel along the route is available at intervals achievable without carrying extra, but you would carry extra just in case. I think most people in those areas would carry enough fuel to be able to skip a stop (or to have to turn around and head back prior to reaching the next fuel supply. Fuel supplies in the remote outback are unreliable - it would not be unheard of to arrive at a station which sold fuel only to find that they had run out and you had to wait a couple of days for the next delivery, and although the roads where you were might be fine, the fuel tankers might be waiting for impassible roads hundreds of km away to open. Many outback roads are officially closed for a period after any significant rainfall to allow the roads to dry as heavy vehicles can easily destroy a road and make it impassable for other traffic.
So...Are you running straight water in your cooling system? If you've added say 50% glycol, your boiling point will rise considerably. And thats before we start talking about pressure.
Another great ride today. 90º and still got this pic. The friend who was driving my Strada in the previous pics bought one last night.
Only if the thermostat works correctly. The design of the BMW Thermostat is different from others as it is a bypass and not an open shut affair.
You seem to think that the thermostat on a TR650 has to heat up to allow coolant to flow to and from the radiator - wrong !
You obviously have no idea of the properties of Ethylene Glycol type coolants and the use of a pressurised system to raise the boiling point of the liquid in the system. The settings are fan on at 104C and off at 94C.
Radiator efficiency is the key element, and if the thermostat is still bypassing inside the radiator (which it often does) then it does not matter how many fans you fit, the cooling will not be effective.
Prove it !
I have run my bike in a very hot climate (ambient 30C with traffic temps up to 50C) for more than 16000 km and have absolutely no cooling issues whatsoever. I have also helped more than 50 other TR650 owners here to achieve good stable cooling on all their bikes without fitting an extra fan.
I would suggest that running the engine hot will do a lot more damage - that is a fact.
Which is why the system copes adequately in a moderate or cooler climate, but fails miserably in a hot one.
Yes and 99.95 of them have a different method of thermostat operation whereby the thermostat is closed when cold to allow the engine to warm up then it opens and allows the coolant to flow via the radiator. The TR650 system is completely opposite and prone to be inefficient.
When you have opened up as many TR650 cooling systems as I have, you will know how the small plastic tab fails to make the thermostat operate correctly due to the excessively strong spring or the cage itself actually falls apart and prevents proper operation.
Summing up, I do not know of one owner who has performed a Thermostat Delete on a TR650 (by whatever method) and caused any damage or not been happy with the improvement in cooling.
This is the out and about thread. But if you insist on being a jackass, maybe if you understood how an engine worked you would not have had to open up so many radiators.
Put a fan on it, or program the ecu to turn the stock one on at the correct temp. Once the fan kicks on, the temp drops indicating that the radiator and thermostat work just fine. Nothing wrong with the cooling system if burped out proper.
Anybody who had done any amount of engine repair understands what the thermostat purpose is for. Anyone with any knowledge of physics understands metal expansion and differing expansion rates of different metals and materials and thicknesses and understands that the constant temps are healthy for an engine.
If you wish to bandaid up bikes, that is your choice, if you wish to fix em proper, do the delete and use an inline thermostat. Then add an aux fan if you do slow trail work or get stuck in traffic alot.
And FYI, do a bit of research here and find out who actually was involved in the t-delete development before you go shooting you mouth of anymore. You might actually find out I understand this system quite well.
...and that is all it comes down to!
The last Melbourne summer (110F+ambient, then add slow going in heavy terrain while packed for camping) has been the proof (to me).
The Thermostat Delete has been the next best fix to the PodMod+PreFilter combo (for our hot climes, at least). The thermostat also has nothing to do with when the fan kicks in, which are pre-set temps.
My fan is still working as before....just not constantly, only occasionally.
A quick ride in my local forest this afternoon. I had the EWS error for a few months until the earth wire fix got published. Very happy to have the 650 back in action. Now who is going to be the first to comment on my front tire...
Avondale, Newfoundland, Canada. April 18, 2017
Is it a rear tire?
Are you running G650GS spoke rims or custom?
Correct on all counts Ogre. I have the GS spoked rims with a 19" front. I was looking for a front tire with very chunky knobs for grip but also could float on sand. Have yet to test the sand bit (keen to see how it climbs out of sand ruts), but it's works very well on gravel. Stops insane.
^Good thing you have your "Jumpsuit" on.
Look again - I did not originally hijack the thread.
Cut the abuse ok - You made a mistake or were wrong regarding the Boiling temperature and we all know it, so from your post we know you do not understand.
If you cannot live with being informed from experience, then do not try to 'çhange' things.
Read Glitch - he knows more than I do and he is correct too.
Now back to 'Out n About'