I wonder if there is not some type of very thin hard metal shims you could wedge between the CS sprocket and the shaft splines. Something malable enough you could hammer over splines to shape and then jam the CS sprocket on over it. To ease the jamming install maybe grind a bevel on the inner side of the sprocket? After my ride next week I plan to open mine up and take a peek. Hoping for the best but plenty of miles on my bike so this thread has me somewhat concerned. _
Not a bad idea- another possibility for extending out a case splitting session. Like you I've been concerned so pulled the CS sprocket. As mentioned above mine has play- very little but still clear- though the splines appear to be in good health. Also as mentioned above my concern is that my little bit of play will turn into a lot and eventually hose the splines. Still open to hearing from folks as to which brand of 14T they're using- I'd like to get one that fits better than the drivesystemsusa.com one I have now. I sure wish we didn't have the groove/circlip design on our TE's.
For the above idea... You could use little chunks of feeler gauge. Cheap and comes in a bunch of sizes. Find a size that fits and cut some little strips with sheers and stuff it in there. Put them on the side that takes the drive force. Might work. Glue them in with loctite.
Ken, sorry to hear of your issues. Incidentally I was having a new chain and sprockets put on my bike yesterday and Dan at MotoXotica mentioned to go with a stock (14T) Husky CS instead of an aftermarket one. Yes it was a little more $$ but he mentioned something about some fitment issues people have had with aftermarket ones.......at the time I didn't think much about it until reading these posts this morning. I'm not saying it's a good or bad idea to go with an aftermarket CS sprocket, that's your choice.........it's just ironic to me that I heard of this issue in a two second conversation and now I'm reading about much more of it today.
That may be a good way to go. I tried to get a stock CSS at the local dealer and they gave me what they said was OEM. It said MV Augusta! And, I was for the wrong shaft, so no go. I will see about getting a stock sprocket somewhere else. The sprockets I had were the ones that George at UpTite said were the best, and they were JT. I'm not convinced that it would have made a difference, and in any case, it won't make a lot of difference for me at this point. See you in a few! I will more than likely go straight to Death Valley as I have to detour to Zip Ty's shop to re-flash my TE310R ECU on the way. Or at least that is my intention.
MV Agusta labeling is common for OEM husky parts, no worries there. The bike crates also said MV Agusta for a long time.
Well, checking my CS yesterday while replacing the chain/rear sprocket was pretty upsetting. I'd really like your opinions on this though. As you may or may not recall (post #8 of this thread) I had a tiny bit of CS slop in Feb., about 1300 miles ago. Here's the thing... Have a look at the video, then the pic. You'll see what I think is a lot of slop...about shat myself when I felt that. Then you'll see a pic of the CS splines- they seem ok. Puzzling. The assumption, I guess, is that the Drive Systems sprocket is taking the whittling down. What do you guys think about these splines? Sorry if the pics aren't that great. Thanks gang- off to ride.
That is about what I had, or have, except in my case the shaft splines have the wear. Just get a new sprocket and keep fresh Honda Moly 60 or other high pressure grease on the splines. If you want to keep the bike consider spending the money on a good Cush hub.
Thanks for the feedback guys. I think I will at least try a new sprocket...see if an OEM will fit more snug. Will also try the moly. I do hope to keep the bike a long time (have just about 8K on it now) so may indeed have to look more closely at converting to the cush.
Some sprockets fit like the one in the video when they are new. Ironmman sprockets have the tightest fit that I have seen.
Before my slop developed the sprocket had virtually no play at all, and that was after 4000 plus miles. After my next trip, over 2000 miles, the slop was there. Splines worn but not the sprocket. I think it was a JT sprocket, from George at UpTite, and has the half sun logo.
I think I understand what you are getting at. If the sprocket is harder than the shaft ..... That is what bothers me about the Ironman sprockets. They are advertised as being made from the same alloy as punch press dies. That's some hard/tuff stuff. The PBI sprockets that I have used from BMP fit fairly snug when new and aren't as hard as the hubs of hell because my splines wear less than the sprocket. CS sprockets are just another consumable part on these bikes even with a cush rear sprocket or hub IMO.
They are pretty cheap, so that's not a big problem; anyway, they are for sure much cheaper and easier to replace than a countershaft.
I believe herein lies the wisdom...choosing a CSS that's softer than the shaft. In my case, and Theo's, it would appear the sprocket is taking most of the wear...that's good...but I'm sure the splines are taking some, just not as much (as all are and considering myself thankful mine isn't like Ken's...don't get me wrong I feel for you Ken.
this was posted on the gas gas forum in response to iron man sprocket Hello, sorry to hear of this problem, however it is not the sprocket that has caused your problem. Our sprockets are hard, true, but they are still not as hard as your counter shaft. Counter shafts on all modern dirt bikes are made from very hard gear material which is stronger than our sprockets. (Its hardness is about 59-60Rc on the Rockwell scale). We have front sprockets on thousands of different bikes all over the world, some on the bikes of world class off-road racers for the last 9 years. With this long history of use, combined with our own testing, there is no additional or abnormal wear caused to any counter shaft (on any model bike) from our sprockets. We have many of our front sprockets on Gas Gas bikes, including some very skilled pro riders who attended the ISDE in Greece. (among other events) The "c" clip which holds your front sprocket to the shaft should be snug at initial install. If it is not, it should be replaced. A loose or worn "c" clip can produce a sliding movement of the sprocket on the counter shaft, this will greatly accelerate the wear on both the counter shaft, and the sprocket. For this reason, the "c" clip design is not an ideal securing method for a front sprocket. In addition to a loose sprocket situation, one other thing often noted about Gas Gas is they tend to develop a leaky counter shaft seal. Is your seal leaking, or has your seal been leaking in the past? This condition creates a bad situation as it will hold abrasive material like sand to the area around the leak. This grit will eventually work its way between the sprockets and splines. It is more likely that a loose sprocket is the cause of your issue however. We are very sorry to hear of your problem, we certainly hate to hear about a fellow rider experiencing down time. I can assure you however, this was not the fault of the sprocket. I will be happy to send you a replacement front sprocket so you have a new ready to go when you finish the rebuild. Please send me your shipping address. If you have further questions please let me know. Thanks very much, Nate D. Dirt Tricks 775-267-6361 2559 Precision Dr #4 Minden, NV 89423 USA
IMO it would be useful to understand how much a play like that could affect the ride quality or the engine durability. Maybe not much (except for those splines), because if I engage a gear and try to spin the countershaft without rotating the crankshaft, I will notice that it can move much more than the sprocket on the countershaft. So, that play slighlty increases an already existing play between the countershaft and the mainshaft. Do you notice the same thing when you engage a gear with the engine turned off? For example, when you park the bike on a slope and shift in first to prevent it from moving, can the rear wheel rotate a little, not only because of the chain slack?
That won't affect ride quality or engine durability. It's just a wear concern. This is especially true if the shaft is only surface hardened (I don't know if that is the case here) because the wear would accelerate after breaking through that layer. I just grease my shaft/sprocket interface and check it when I change sprockets, there's nothing else you can do. It's fine so far, if it wears out I'll replace the shaft.
Guess I would deb how hard my output shaft is since it is worn and not the sprocket (not Dirt Tricks). I have a new shaft on hand and hope it is harder than the original. Circlip is tight and splines regularly greased.
