• Hi everyone,

    As you all know, Coffee (Dean) passed away a couple of years ago. I am Dean's ex-wife's husband and happen to have spent my career in tech. Over the years, I occasionally helped Dean with various tech issues.

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Trail Access and Insurance

Willlyons

Willlyons

Husqvarna
AA Class
Our local riding area was recently shut down, supposedly due to a four wheeler breaking his arm and the owners of the property receiving a letter from an attorney several days later threatening a law suit. Here's my question:

Does the AMA or any other organization offer a blanket insurance policy to cover it's members and relieve land owners of the threat of lawsuit if people (club members) are riding on their land?

In this case, the reason we lost access is because bud light swillin' necks got hurt and were looking for a free ride. While this probably wouldn't hold up in court, I'm sure just the hassle of having to deal with it enough times over the years was enough to get our little haven shut down. I want to start approaching new land owners to find somewhere local to cut in some trails, and I'd love to be able to say something like "Only people who pay for a key to access the gate will be able to ride, and when they buy the key, they'll have to be a member of XX organization which protects you, the land owner, from any sort of lawsuit with their blanket insurance policy." Does this exist? What does everyone else do?
 
that sucks just cos some quadtard cant ride properly(unless it was booby trapped-pit/wire across track?) & wants someone else to take responsibility for his actions/pay his bills. lookin for a free ride. disappointing that theres people like this around, ruin it for everyone else. seems these days you fall off ya chair you sue the carpet! pure wank.
 
Yea, and the area we ride is pretty damn rural and there aren't enough jobs to maintain the addictions so it's pretty sad really. I wish there was a way we could convince the land owners they could make money and it would be worthwhile to allow bikes only but they won't hear it. Unfortunately the money isn't really there.
 
No real answer for you Will, but I moved to this American colony as my fix to the issue you are writing about ... I had to have some relief from what was being fed to me and wanted to be a full time rider before my time was up for riding. In AR in the 70s when I was growing up, a lawsuit was a very very big deal ... Not that the lawyers were not the winners then also but no frivolous lawsuits back then for that time and place ... This liability issue that is in the forefront of everyones' mind today did not really exist back then that I can remember ... All that stuff has been taught to us and its a money maker for so many.

Maybe a fellow Kentuckian can help you with some riding ... The land of Dan'l Boone has got to have some juice left for you guys and it looks like you got at least 3 really cool bikes to ride ...
 
here in pa, we have a few places to ride that the land owners have turned into a commercial enterprise. you can become a member, or pay a daily fee. you sign a release form, and go tear it up. the advantages are maintained trails, its legal, almost all trails are directional, and they are marked for difficulty. the only real disadvantage is they get pretty rutted up from quads and side by sides but i chalk that up to practice. the place i got to the most does have a dedicated single track route.
www.minesandmeadows.com
perhaps you could show this place to your landowner friend. they have a campground area as well for families or whoever to camp at as well. i go in with a few other guys and get the "family pass". 75 bucks and i ride all year as often as i want..
 
Just, now that's what I like hearing****************************************! People helping people with a little green on the side to grease the wheels ....:banana:

--

I gotta bring this Hard-Chargers' words out from that his website as an example of what a single good man can accomplish ..

On May 21, 2014, Bob Svihra passed away after his long battle with cancer. What follows are Bob's thoughts, shared in his own words, about his reasons for building Mines & Meadows and his vision for the future.

"Although I have spent nearly 40 years as a successful risk taker and entrepreneur in Western Pennsylvania, I probably still surprised many local developers when I decided to invest nearly $2 million of my own money into development of an ATV riding resort like Mines & Meadows. I have felt driven to do this project by some basic beliefs: a love for the sport, its great camaraderie, and an intense desire to pass along some of the joy I've found to others that might not otherwise have the opportunity. My goal is ultimately to provide ATV riders with the country club atmosphere they deserve. Cynics might say that at more than 70 years of age, I will never recoup my investment; they may be right. I prefer to think that providing a state of the art resort where friends and families can congregate and enjoy this wonderful sport is my way of giving something back."

To all our loyal customers, thank you for your continued patronage and for helping us keep Bob's dream alive!

Sincerely,
The Staff and Management of Mines & Meadows

Robert_.png
 
THERE ARE STATES WITH HOLD HARMLESS LAWS SUING THE LAND OWNERS NOT THE THING TO DO ITS NOT HIS FAULT IF YOU CRASH N BREAK NECK YOU SHOULD BE THANKFUL THEY LET YOU IN TO RIDE IN THE FIRST PLACE IF THERE'S ENOUGH RIDERS IN THE AREA THE LAND MAKE A LITTLE MONEY SO SIGN THE RELEASE PAY THE 10 BUCKS RIDE YOUR ASSOFF DON'T LEAVE A MESS [AND TAKE ONE IF YOU FIND ONE] AND THANK THE LAND OWNER WHEN YOU LEAVE
 
Tennessee is one of those states where the landowner can't be held responsible for injury or death resulting from someone participating in risky recreation. The insurance companies want to try to recoup money they paid out, so they will sue if they can. When I destroyed my shoulder last year, I got a letter from my medical insurance company asking how and where it happened. I put "in the woods of Tennessee' in the where section and never heard back from them.
 
I'll have to look into Kentucky law. It's not the people like us who sue, it's the folks with no jobs on beater bikes/ATV's sipping bud light looking for a hand out who sue. This place has actually been an off road park for a long time, waiver, $10/day, used to have camping and even a motocross track at one point. Not sure why the tables have turned, I've just heard through the grapevine. I think the main thing is a lot of people just abused it, and the owners weren't exactly into enforcing the rules/working at all. What I heard was someone recently tried to sue them and that was the straw that broke the camel's back.

I wish I had $2mil to invest in a riding park I'd start one tomorrow! Dirtbikes, ATV's (that can't hold coolers or guns), Mountain Bikes, maybe even a chair lift for the mountain bikers. Anyone else want in? I think Kentucky would be a great central location for it!
 
Many times it's not the person who was injured that does the suing, but an insurance company trying to recoup their money. You cant tell your insurance company not to sue, unless you pay for your medical bills yourself.
 
The Carnegie OHV park in Livermore CA. between Tracy on Corral Hollow road which is ran by the state of CA. nowadays suffered the same type situation back in the mid 70's. When I was a kid back in 66', 67',68' and 69' maybe into 70' before there was even a fence along the road. My Dad and Step Mom took us to the old Carnegie Brick works concrete slab which still remains to this day and we used to go shooting there into the mound that used to be for the rail service cars off loading for the brick factory. Long ago. Even then, there was a monument out on the edge of the road for the old Carnegie brick factory back in the 60's. I would think it's probably still there as it had a brass plaque embedded into a rock mound with concrete out along the road.

My Dad traded a 22' rifle for a mini bike in 67' and we cut some trails there riding around, myself and my 2 brothers. We used to throw it in the trunk of a 64' Olds F85 Cutlass to bring it there until we got skinned up a few times and my Mom whom I lived with was a bit upset with my Dad, being brought back in this condition after spending the weekends with him. I was only about 7 years old at the time.
More and more we started seeing mini bikes and so on with others riding there too.

Then one weekend while shooting. The first true dirtbike I ever saw was a white gas tank 67' or 68" DT Yamaha 125 or 175 pop up from the backside of the hill we were shooting into. That was the end of that as a shooting destination. It soon got a fence put up along the road and became Carnegie Motorcycle park.

A few years later we used to go there to watch the GP world Motocross races there and it was all trails. I watched Roger Decoster snap his frame in half at one of those races and all the factory teams from all over the world would be there. At one of those MXGP races we watched a guy in his 4 wheel drive truck between heat races drive up a hill near the pits off the side of the track and his big 4 wheel drive Chevy pickup spare tire rolled out of the back of his bed and started rolling down the hill. It took about 3 bounces and cleared the pits by the time it reached the bottom of the hill. several hundred yards before it stopped. It hit a spectator along the edge of the track and put him in a wheel chair for the rest of his life.

The lawsuits started right after that. I later met the kid who got crippled when I moved over the hill from Castro Valley to San Ramon to live with my Dad when I was about 21. The park was closed for a time and the CA State parks and recreation took it over after that. I haven't been there since about 1990 or so. The mound of dirt we used to shoot into had been covered, seeded, taped and flagged off to allow the natural vegetation to grow back.

I told 1 of the Park Rangers one time when I was riding there that we used to shoot into that mound and he about flipped out! Saying "you're not allowed to bring guns out here".. I walked him over to the mound of dirt and dug into it with my hands for just a few minutes and handed him a handful of lead cartridges still in the dirt just a few inches below. He about had a heart attack. Until I explained we were coming here back in the mid to late 60s and went shooting there before there was even a fence out on the road and had cut some of the first single track trails with an old minibike. I moved onto riding 400/440 Maico's and than a TRX250R Fourtrax with a CR 500cc Honda for power I built back then. I had a 500 Suzuki Quadzilla purchased new in 89' which got sold quickly as the Honda was about 40 lbs. lighter than the big Suzuki. Both were flatrack and TT raced at the Lodi Cycle bowl, back then.

Even when I had the Quads, I would still bring one of my Maico's along for a ride back then.

The Carnegie OHV park is huge now and quite the destination for anyone who lives in the Bay Area. Hollister hills being the next big place to go but a farther drive from where I was living at the time.

Living in Castro Valley we used to also ride out off of Redwood Road hill climbs too but it got closed down as the hills to a beating and erosion was out of control between Castro Valley and Skyline Blvd. in Oakland.

Those were the days.

Where I'm at now in AZ I can ride just about anywhere with plates on my bikes and an OHV sticker. Oh how things have changed.
 
Kentucky doesn't have the hold harmless law. That would be great. As you know, I started the KORHS series (and later sold it), believe me I've researched your question through and through. Saddleback East is as close as you're going to find as a model. Getting landowners to host events, let alone open riding, is a tough row to hoe! I worked with groups in Southern KY to try to set up something similar to Hatfield-McCoy in West Virginia. My title as AMA Dist 10 President (only 2 years) meant very little to landowners as well. The location you speak of really needed better rules enforcement, but you're on the mark with the trouble makers' dilemma. I'm good friends with the 'former' proprietor of the 2,000 acre area in Scott County that sold a couple of years ago, quads killed his enthusiasm quickly. Hit me up sometime and I'll take your to my secret stash. Have you ridden Hatfield-McCoy?
 
Willlyons said:
Our local riding area was recently shut down, supposedly due to a four wheeler breaking his arm and the owners of the property receiving a letter from an attorney several days later threatening a law suit. Here's my question:

Does the AMA or any other organization offer a blanket insurance policy to cover it's members and relieve land owners of the threat of lawsuit if people (club members) are riding on their land?

In this case, the reason we lost access is because bud light swillin' necks got hurt and were looking for a free ride. While this probably wouldn't hold up in court, I'm sure just the hassle of having to deal with it enough times over the years was enough to get our little haven shut down. I want to start approaching new land owners to find somewhere local to cut in some trails, and I'd love to be able to say something like "Only people who pay for a key to access the gate will be able to ride, and when they buy the key, they'll have to be a member of XX organization which protects you, the land owner, from any sort of lawsuit with their blanket insurance policy." Does this exist? What does everyone else do?
Click to expand...
The answer is NO. You can buy 'club' insurance if you have a club grounds, but not through AMA.
 
I think you guys should see if your local AMA district can help with looking into a public riding area. There is some pulic land out there still I hope. As a native Mayfieldian and potential future escapee from Commifornia looking to join the folks in going back home I was hoping there would be some public/state type riding areas out that way.
 
There is not am insurance policy or waiver that removes that threat..... they will always sue for more than it covers and regardless you will still be stuck in litigation forever
 
Huskynoobee there's still quite a bit of public land to ride on, this place was just great because it was less than an hour away.

I figured no insurance was the case but the reason I asked is because my dad does a lot of fox hunting and they ride horses and jump fences and run hounds across people's private property. The MFH, their equivalent of the AMA, provides insurance coverage to land owners to protect them from lawsuits from people hunting on their land. Thought maybe the AMA or some other organization may do the same.
 
I get that for sure. I'm lucky to have two riding areas within a half hour drive. Good to hear that there's open riding out there. My patience with the place formerly known as the golden state is wearing thin.
 
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