Toasted Top End Avoided

[TomGlander]

Riding to work today, stopped at light, noticed smoke. Then saw oil. All over the engine. Have ZipTy oil breather system. Been just fine. Never an oil drop anywhere. Until today.

Well, last night I took the oil breather off the head, then put it back on. Have to remove it to get to the sparkplug. I didn't check the hose, and left a nice kink in it.

So today, the oil is everywhere. Is that kink in the hose going to make oil go all over the place? I turned around, and headed for home. Then the bike went into a low RPM mode, like a loss of power. Then it just stopped. Dead. I pulled in the clutch and coasted downhill to a gas station. Lucky me.

My wife got the bike home via AAA. After work, I checked it out. No sign of any issues. I readjusted the kinked hose, and filled the case with oil.

Tried to start the engine. It didn't want to turn over. I tried again, this time a little click. Then again, and it slowly started turning a little. Then again, and it started turning faster. Finally, after the fifth attempt, and lots of turning, faster and faster, it started.

I wonder what was going on internally on the first through fourth attempts?

I was worried it might be seized. But no, it now runs "just fine."

Was that kink in the hose enough to cause the oil spillage into the airbox? I opened it up, and oil literally poured out of there. Cleaned everything up.

The system Tinken sells has worked perfectly. That kink in the hose that connects the breather elbow to the oil bottle was the only change.

So I'd like to know what was happening. RPMs on the way to work are around 8000, running 75 mph. Gearing is 15 front, 44 rear, supermoto wheels. About 3/4 throttle for 2 miles. Nothing different than any other day, except for that kinked hose.

Anyone have any input or ideas on this, love to hear them. I'm glad the ECU shut down the engine. If this were a carbureted bike, and I didn't stop, the engine WOULD have seized.

I think I came real close to literally blowing something up. Thank you Husky engineers for creating a system that shuts things down when they get too hot or not enough lube or whatever you did to save my bacon today.

I should have stopped sooner, but when you're hauling ass on the freeway watching for cars, you aren't looking at your engine and don't notice the oil leaking.

I got lucky today. It's far better to be "good" than "lucky." But I'll take luck today.

I'm going to monitor this thread to see what kind of replies I get. Anyone want additional info, I'll be watching so I can answer questions or add more detail if needed.

 

[Motosportz]

kinked hose cause pressure buildup that pushed lots of oil into the airbox and then sucked into the motor. Your lucky you did not hydro lock and bend a rod. You should have taken the spark plug out when it would not turn over much like when you drowned a bike in a river.

 

[TomGlander]

kinked hose cause pressure buildup that pushed lots of oil into the airbox and then sucked into the motor. Your lucky you did not hydro lock and bend a rod. You should have taken the spark plug out when it would not turn over much like when you drowned a bike in a river.

Interesting. I never thought of a fluid lock, as water and motorcycles have never gone together in my experience. (Never ridden where there's any water.) It makes sense.

Kinked hose... pressure builds up.... oil pushed into airbox... I'm with you. But at what point does the oil get sucked into the motor? One hose goes to the airbox, and oil is is being pressured from the engine into the airbox. The only possible entry back to the engine is via the EFI system, isn't it?

Trying to understand how fluid lock would occur.

Taking the spark plug out would have been the smarter thing to do, for sure. Thanks for the input. And thanks for making a great steering stabilizer, which I'm enjoying each time I ride!

 

[Motosportz]

If it pumps enough into the airfilter it is going to suck it into the motor via the EFI throttle body. I have drowned many a bike in a river. They don't want to turn over either. Fluids do not compress, or at least not like air and can and will lock the motor.

 

[TomGlander]

So that makes sense. It sucks in enough oil and suddenly the engine just goes dead. Fuel air ratio is all messed up at that point. I wonder how much oil would be required for this to occur. Seems like it would have to be "enough." Drowning a bike in a river sounds kind of fun, actually, as long as you can rescue it after the drowning. Do you have to turn it upside down after removing spark plug and let all water drain out? There must be a protocol to follow after drowning.

 

[Motosportz]

There must be a protocol to follow after drowning.

Yep...

1. pray you did not bend the rod hydro locking it
2. remove sparkplug
3. remove air filter
4. Stand bike on rear wheel as the exhaust is full of water too
5. kick it til most the water is out
6. wring out the airfilter and reinstall
7. Start bike

 

[juicypips]

Drain oil from crank case too as more than likley thats now water loged and change oil filter, re lube everything dry wiring etc.... Drain swing arm as that fills up too, oh re grease bearings.
More hastle than its worth

 

[MotoMarc36]

My bet is that it did, in fact, sieze. Everything K said about hydro-locking is true. However, it generally happens all at once, the bike is running and then BAM it hydro-locks. It doesn't "go into low RPM mode, like a loss of power" before stopping.

Then, to get it going after a hydro lock, the starter isn't EVER going to slowly put it past TDC and clear the oil, the starter cables would get melty-hot from the current. You would need to pull the sparkplug. Then, there would be oil dripping from every orfice of the exhaust, and it would smoke like a chimney fire.

It is possible that it partially hydro-locked, and enough oil bled past the rings over night to allow it to crank through. Or that it got enough oil in the intake to kill the motor but never really locked, but why the no-to-slow-to-faster crank? I bet the big-end or top-end got tight. Did you open the airbox and check for evidence of oil ingestion?

 

[Tinken]

What's water...

 

[Tinken]

Where exactly was the kink in the hose?

 

[SDPUTTER]

Interesting. I never thought of a fluid lock, as water and motorcycles have never gone together in my experience. (Never ridden where there's any water.) It makes sense.

Kinked hose... pressure builds up.... oil pushed into airbox... I'm with you. But at what point does the oil get sucked into the motor? One hose goes to the airbox, and oil is is being pressured from the engine into the airbox. The only possible entry back to the engine is via the EFI system, isn't it?

Trying to understand how fluid lock would occur.

Taking the spark plug out would have been the smarter thing to do, for sure. Thanks for the input. And thanks for making a great steering stabilizer, which I'm enjoying each time I ride!

I haven't riden mine with the Zip-Ty system much. I initially put 1300 - 1400 ml of oil (I like to try and break things). No issues for a few rides. Then, I was trying to keep up with this road racer on a canton road for about 5 miles (seemed like they were Valentino Rossi, but later found out it was a girl). After I stopped to get her autograph, I noticed oil everywhere. WTF! Sorry chaps, but the girl wasn't very impressed with a Husky TE at that point. Anyway, the way I routed my hose from the breather to the tank was away from the tank and looping around the back of the head to the tank. My hose has a bend (almost kinked) in it. I'm thinking that is my problem. If I'm fairly mellow, no problems. But I was high in the revs up and down gears for a while when it happened.

 

[Motosportz]

My bet is that it did, in fact, sieze. Everything K said about hydro-locking is true. However, it generally happens all at once, the bike is running and then BAM it hydro-locks. It doesn't "go into low RPM mode, like a loss of power" before stopping.

Then, to get it going after a hydro lock, the starter isn't EVER going to slowly put it past TDC and clear the oil, the starter cables would get melty-hot from the current. You would need to pull the sparkplug. Then, there would be oil dripping from every orfice of the exhaust, and it would smoke like a chimney fire.

It is possible that it partially hydro-locked, and enough oil bled past the rings over night to allow it to crank through. Or that it got enough oil in the intake to kill the motor but never really locked, but why the no-to-slow-to-faster crank? I bet the big-end or top-end got tight. Did you open the airbox and check for evidence of oil ingestion?

My thought was enough oil got through to cause it to have a semi hydro lock issue, down on power because of all the oil the motor was ingesting.

 

[TomGlander]

Where exactly was the kink in the hose?

The hose between the breather "L" in the top of the valve cover and the intake point on the oil breather bottle. That hose was kinked, folded back on itself almost. My fault for routing it wrong after removing and replacing it.

So oil must have pushed up from the crankcase (lowest point) into the breather bottle, then from there, up the next hose, into the air box, looking for a way to vent itself. Pressure must have been pretty intense.

There was lots of oil in the airbox when I took it apart. Air filter sponge was full of oil.

Now the bike has white smoke when you blip the throttle. Wondering what causes that.

 

[TomGlander]

I haven't riden mine with the Zip-Ty system much. I initially put 1300 - 1400 ml of oil (I like to try and break things). No issues for a few rides. Then, I was trying to keep up with this road racer on a canton road for about 5 miles (seemed like they were Valentino Rossi, but later found out it was a girl). After I stopped to get her autograph, I noticed oil everywhere. WTF! Sorry chaps, but the girl wasn't very impressed with a Husky TE at that point. Anyway, the way I routed my hose from the breather to the tank was away from the tank and looping around the back of the head to the tank. My hose has a bend (almost kinked) in it. I'm thinking that is my problem. If I'm fairly mellow, no problems. But I was high in the revs up and down gears for a while when it happened.

So, I cured the issue by putting two 90 degrees plastic "L" pieces in the tube. So it can't kink now. Haven't had a problem yet, but haven't really ridden hard or that fast yet. Some decent rides, but haven't felt like pushing the bike to high revs for any length of time. Need to get to the bottom of the white smoke issue first, before I feel comfortable with this.

 

[juicypips]

Have you replaced the air filter yet?

 

[TomGlander]

Have you replaced the air filter yet?

No, I have not replaced it. Should I? I wrung it out, so it's not wet, but maybe it should be replaced? Not sure.

 

[juicypips]

If its soaked in oil could be sucking it through. Worth removing it an running without to see if it stops the smoking.
Hows your coolant level? If the engine got too hot from lack of oil you may have warped the head so that could be causing white smoke oils normally a blue hue to it.

 

[TomGlander]

Going on a long ride tomorrow. I washed the air filter and re oiled it. Seems to be ok. The smoke might be more gray that white. After tomorrow's ride I'll know more. Thanks for all the input so far. I hope I got lucky and there's no major problem. Seems to run great, except for the extra smoke, which only happens when you gun the throttle. Otherwise doesn't smoke as far as I can tell. Curious stuff.

 

[Tinken]

I haven't riden mine with the Zip-Ty system much. I initially put 1300 - 1400 ml of oil (I like to try and break things).

1300cc is an absolute maximum and any higher will see a potential hydraulic lock.

 

[Tinken]

Going on a long ride tomorrow. I washed the air filter and re oiled it. Seems to be ok. The smoke might be more gray that white. After tomorrow's ride I'll know more. Thanks for all the input so far. I hope I got lucky and there's no major problem. Seems to run great, except for the extra smoke, which only happens when you gun the throttle. Otherwise doesn't smoke as far as I can tell. Curious stuff.

You might want to have us take a look at your rings to make sure they are still in place where they should be. It sounds to me like there is some sort of issue there and it would be better to fix the issue sooner than later.