TO PCV OR NOT TO PCV THAT IS THE QUESTION

[huskydude59]

I know I am opening a can worms here but. Can anyone please.. In English. Tell me the benefits of buying a PVC for my TE511. I have some very sad moments with that throttle issue. Took out top butter fly to fix. Has been a great jump.forward. no high idles. No stalls off jumps etc.. I do miss the smooth off the bottom control I had.. don't miss the the throttle lag though.. I am willing to pay the bucks if I can fix those issues and get to putting my bike back to std.. As I said before.... Great idea poorly implemented.....

 

[bigmo]

Well it sounds like your bike is running well now post butterfly. I would suggest if the only thing you are missing now is some delicate throttle control going with a G2 Throttle Cam. They are extremely well made, very inexpensive, and give one the absolute best throttle control over anything with a twist throttle. You will probably love the 400 cam.

Why add another layer of complexity, tuning, and a potential point of failure?

I am not anti PCV - but I was fortunate to get my bike running flawlessly both without a PCV (nor JD) and I still have the butterfly in. I cannot explain it...poor quality control??? Who knows. I am ridiculously picky about mechanics working right and I cannot imagine a better running motor.

 

[huskydude59]

Well it sounds like your bike is running well now post butterfly. I would suggest if the only thing you are missing now is some delicate throttle control going with a G2 Throttle Cam. They are extremely well made, very inexpensive, and give one the absolute best throttle control over anything with a twist throttle. You will probably love the 400 cam.

Why add another layer of complexity, tuning, and a potential point of failure?

I am not anti PCV - but I was fortunate to get my bike running flawlessly both without a PCV (nor JD) and I still have the butterfly in. I cannot explain it...poor quality control??? Who knows. I am ridiculously picky about mechanics working right and I cannot imagine a better running motor.

I know what you mean. I just want it to ride as it was engineered to go.. Being old school, I am a bit perplexed by it all.

 

[gillies]

The benefits? Many here swear by the PCV and have experienced a profound improvement in fuel delivery with the use of one. I don't doubt their experience one bit.

However... Dare I say it? My bike has ripped and throttled properly since '11 using a JD. Complexity? The thing is pretty darn simple to install and adjust, if needed. Did the trick for my bike and many others, and it's a heck of a lot cheaper that a PCV, too.

Try mounting a PCV here:

 

[RickyDZero]

I have a txc 511 I was wondering about the butterfly removal sounds like the way to go. I am also having some of the same issues, flame out not so much, but high idle is a problem. To be honest my tc 250 feels faster, so I am hoping the jd tuner I bought and the butterfly mod will wake this bike up. Might be the way to go, I will give report when done.

 

[Cosmokenney]

I know I am opening a can worms here but. Can anyone please.. In English. Tell me the benefits of buying a PVC for my TE511. I have some very sad moments with that throttle issue. Took out top butter fly to fix. Has been a great jump.forward. no high idles. No stalls off jumps etc.. I do miss the smooth off the bottom control I had.. don't miss the the throttle lag though.. I am willing to pay the bucks if I can fix those issues and get to putting my bike back to std.. As I said before.... Great idea poorly implemented.....

I bought a used JD for $120 shipped. It has transformed the bike. The 5 minute install is a kind of refreshing, too. I had ZipTy do Map #3 and it never ran right. I didn't want to spend a dime on a bike that I paid a premium for. I expected that a modern EFI bike would run amazing out of the box. I was so disappointed that the Map #3 was such an epic fail that I actually lost sleep over it. When I saw the JD come up for such a low price, I figured I'd give it a shot. I had an extra $120 in the bank that month, so why not? Even if you don't use it to bump up the fuel much in the various RPM ranges, the accelerator pump feature is amazing. No more lugging when trying to get the front wheel up. Just twist the throttle and concentrate on your technique instead of cringing and thinking the bike is going to die and dump me over the side of the trail. Doing the butterfly also added ever so little to the hit overall. It's well worth the 30 minute, $0.00, effort.

 

[RickyDZero]

$0.00 got to like that. Trying to maintain 2 bikes can be $$$. However I do plan on getting a pc5 for the 250 and have zip ty work their magic

 

[Teambowles]

I know I am opening a can worms here but. Can anyone please.. In English. Tell me the benefits of buying a PVC for my TE511. I have some very sad moments with that throttle issue. Took out top butter fly to fix. Has been a great jump.forward. no high idles. No stalls off jumps etc.. I do miss the smooth off the bottom control I had.. don't miss the the throttle lag though.. I am willing to pay the bucks if I can fix those issues and get to putting my bike back to std.. As I said before.... Great idea poorly implemented.....

What mods do you currently have? Here's what I did and it worked great for my 511. Took smog junk off, fmf slip on with quiet core for back pressure, map 3, had a few flame outs so I matched the brass screw with my 449 to 5 1/4 turns out from all the way in, and tps reset. Bike runs great now no flameouts, just pulls hard, idles smooth, starts first press of the button. Just FYI I disconnected the positive battery terminal left it off for about an hour and adjusted the brass screw when battery was disconnected. After adjustment and reconnect of battery it started right up and I let it idle for 5 minutes before I rode it. Worked in my case. I'm not big on piggyback stuff and I didn't want to take the butterfly out.

 

[TomGlander]

Ditto everything Teambowles wrote, except for the battery disconnection part. My TE511 is amazing with the ZipTy ECU flash. Just runs perfectly strong from no throttle to full throttle. No need for PCV at all.

 

[huskydude59]

So , I guess the question now i need to ask is why does the electronic butterfly not do its job. Why is it such an issue. The one thing I know is that my power delivery is now more abrupt off the bottom since I have removed the top BF. Why doesn't it work on some and does on other's. I work in the fields of analysing failure and root causes. To just find a work round does my head when I don't know why.... The was designed with a feature of smooth power delivery. In some way I have lost that feature. I would like to take the back to that.

 

[Dangermouse449]

I know I am opening a can worms here but. Can anyone please.. In English. Tell me the benefits of buying a PVC for my TE511. I have some very sad moments with that throttle issue. Took out top butter fly to fix. Has been a great jump.forward. no high idles. No stalls off jumps etc.. I do miss the smooth off the bottom control I had.. don't miss the the throttle lag though.. I am willing to pay the bucks if I can fix those issues and get to putting my bike back to std.. As I said before.... Great idea poorly implemented.....

The PCV system is a good thing, lots of adjust-ability available for any future mods (requiring changes to fueling)
However, the PVC unfortunately, cannot control the second butterfly, so problems in that system may remain - My main reason for not going down that path first.

There may be other ways to fix hanging idle & dead throttle issues, but having the idle arm off & no butterfly worked in my case 100% for those issues. (Something I spent 18 months trying to achieve without resorting to removing factory parts)

If your bike is fairly standard, Map3 & the butterfly out may be all you need if fueling is correct like that & it runs well.
Have a read through the original post.

 

[underwatersimon]

Took the butterfly out and it did what folks are saying but in the end I put it back in.
My reasoning... Without a PC or JD and a way to really see what the air fuel ratio was doing I wasn't confident tuning it by the seat of my pants.
My bike runs pretty well in stock trim Ie. Map 2 and Akro.
I would like to open it up some but I'm holding off until adding a PC or JD and A/F gauge.

 

[huskydude59]

Took the butterfly out and it did what folks are saying but in the end I put it back in.
My reasoning... Without a PC or JD and a way to really see what the air fuel ratio was doing I wasn't confident tuning it by the seat of my pants.
My bike runs pretty well in stock trim Ie. Map 2 and Akro.
I would like to open it up some but I'm holding off until adding a PC or JD and A/F gauge.

I am in the same frame of mind. I want to be the way it was engineered. My mate has the BMW 450. There is a lot of similarities . His has no top BF and runs fine. In the early stages of owning it I was amazed with how the engine kept in control. I was riding rokeby here in Victoria in the rain yesterday. I gotta say, there were times when I couldn't keep the traction on the rear. I can't help feel I have backwards in some way.

 

[huskydude59]

Does anyone actually know why it doesn't work.. What control's the top BF. How does it know when to work. Where does it receive its info from. And why the f#$% doesn't BMW buy there model back off KTM...Damn it....

 

[Teambowles]

Does anyone actually why it doesn't work.. What control's the top be. How does it know when to work. Where does it receive it info from. And why the f#$% doesn't BMW buy there model back off KTM...Damn it....

Sounds like you need if you haven't already go to dangermouse449 thread on the BF removal. He and others cover this quite extensively. Theories, real world applications etc...bottom line is IMO with fmf, map 3, smog junk off, a few minor adjustments you don't need to spend a ton of money on programmers to make these bikes rip. There's actually 2 threads on here that cover the BF removal both pages long and beat the BF thing to death.

 

[Dangermouse449]

I am in the same frame of mind. I want to be the way it was engineered. My mate has the BMW 450. There is a lot of similarities . His has no top BF and runs fine. In the early stages of owning it I was amazed with how the engine kept in control. I was riding rokeby here in Victoria in the rain yesterday. I gotta say, there were times when I couldn't keep the traction on the rear. I can't help feel I have backwards in some way.

The choice is of course entirely yours.

Mine is 'only' a 449, but I don't have any problems controlling the amount of throttle, even in wet clay rides we do from time to time.
I find it easy to 'trials-bike' it around near idle & it does this better when it isn't stalling all the time for me.
I really love the extra torque that was missing from the bottom & mid range, that may suit some I understand.
In my own bike, there is no holes or rideability issues after the BF removal & adjusting the TPS for mixture.
I plan, as soon as time permits, to do some measured runs to test the mixtures & will post those up so we are all able to see any effects.

 

[huskydude59]

What mods do you currently have? Here's what I did and it worked great for my 511. Took smog junk off, fmf slip on with quiet core for back pressure, map 3, had a few flame outs so I matched the brass screw with my 449 to 5 1/4 turns out from all the way in, and tps reset. Bike runs great now no flameouts, just pulls hard, idles smooth, starts first press of the button. Just FYI I disconnected the positive battery terminal left it off for about an hour and adjusted the brass screw when battery was disconnected. After adjustment and reconnect of battery it started right up and I let it idle for 5 minutes before I rode it. Worked in my case. I'm not big on piggyback stuff and I didn't want to take the butterfly out.

My 511 come uncorked unlike the ones in th US. It's std with the akro muffler and race map2. It has also had attempts in the shop. I was riding a local spot when it gave the ghost. Did the BF mod back at the car. 1/2 hr later it was back on the track hooting along...had some stalling. But that's about all. I now notice that it's not that great up top. Seems to feel lean....

 

[Dangermouse449]

You should have the richer updated map 3 & run with the jumper plug fitted.
It may also need the TPS shifted(as per the original post) or a PCV to tune with, even after this if it remains lean.
Just removing the butterfly is not recommended without making changes to fueling as well.

 

[RickyDZero]

Did the jd install, all I can say is this bike does not play nice any more it rrrrips.511 txc now feels way faster than my 250r. I wonder how much hp this install mod made. For 200$ well worth it.

 

[jerbear610]

The benefits? Many here swear by the PCV and have experienced a profound improvement in fuel delivery with the use of one. I don't doubt their experience one bit.

However... Dare I say it? My bike has ripped and throttled properly since '11 using a JD. Complexity? The thing is pretty darn simple to install and adjust, if needed. Did the trick for my bike and many others, and it's a heck of a lot cheaper that a PCV, too.

Try mounting a PCV here:

I'm currently using a PCV but have used the JD Tuner before. I stated this before and I'll say it again the most noticeable power increase that I've experienced was after installing the JD Tuner. The only reason I switched
to the PCV was because I couldn't get rid of the flame out issues. It's definitely a nice and more economical mod with a nice power gain.