All 2st Time for More Advice

[mikebru]

I determined a while ago I would make the change from the TE449 to a smaller 2 stroke due to my slow riding. The 449 just was too heavy in the tight stuff for me to have any fun.

I had my mind set on a WB165 and almost had one but it didn't work out.

So, I'm back in the market. I'm trying to work to a certain budget. Unfortunately, when it's time for me to make a choice on a bike I let money rule instead of my brain.

I've searched for 144's or 165's and found a WR 144 without the light or speedo setup. It looks to be in good shape and is a 2013. It's a bit over my budget plus the extra dollars to put into the lights, etc... and it's about a 4 hr ride from my house to pick it up. However, its a 2013.

I also found 2 WR250's, both 2009. Much closer to my budget and house and both have the light setups. Seem to be in good shape, too, but 4 years older than the 144.

The advice I'm looking for is this: Should I "splurge" on the 144 and get what I was ultimately after, and which I've never ridden by the way. Or, take the budget-driven approach and go with one of the 250's? The big question in my mind is will I feel a big weight difference and feel between the 250 and 449? And, will the 250 be too much for me since I've never been on a 2 stroke or will the 144 better suit my slow style.

I want to make this decision with my brain and not wallet.

Thanks for whatever you can tell me.

Mike

 

[Kyle Tarry]

You should test ride the bike(s) before you buy them. I'd be happy to let you ride my 300, that will give you a very similar experience to the 250 and you can see how it feels in the woods. Downside is, I won't be around (vacation, work travel) for another few weeks. I might be able to squeeze in a ride on the 8th but I'm not sure that I can count on it. Otherwise it's going to need to be closer to the end of March.

Plus, I have always wanted to try out a 449.

 

[Steve Kanya]

I guarantee if you ride my 250 with the awesome Rekluse on the nastiest, off camber, slick, rooted uphill you can find you will be all smiles. The bike clawed me up every stopper at the last Unadilla GNCC with ease as bikes where scattered everywhere stuck. These 250s are torque monsters and find traction when you least expect it.

 

[GhostRider32]

While I don't have a 250, I do have a WR300 with a Rekluse and I love it. It is definitely a torque machine and easy to ride...... You say you're a slow rider so a 250 with a Rekluse might be more up your alley since typically a 144 class bike needs more revs to crawl vs. a 250, or so I've been told. I have never actually ridden a 144cc bike so take that for what it's worth.....

 

[mikebru]

Thanks for all of the info guys.

Kyle - I sold the 449 on Black Friday and been without a bike ever since so you can't ride mine!

Steve and GhostRider - How does the 250 feel weight-wise? Is it a lot to handle? If I hit the gas will it rocket out from under me? I handled the 449 fine it just did a job on me after miles of singletrack. However, I like the idea of the torque and crawling abilities of the 250. I'm starting to lean now after reading the posts to the 250.

 

[mikebru]

Also, how's the starting on the 250's? I think I read here that it takes some tricks and technique to kick them over.

 

[Pedec]

I have rode both and think you would enjoy the wr 144 more and teach you to be a better rider in the long run. You can not buy a bigger bike thinking it will make you faster if anything its the opposite will make you slower. Later on put a 165 on bike and you will have the the best of both worlds, the 165 kit with a lectron greatly improves the bike bottom end pull. The newer frame on the 2013 makes the bike feel a lot more light,lower and easy to manage over wr250 old frame design. When I ride my 2013 wr 125 it a hoot, all I have done is change to 12 tooth front sprocket and leaned out carb a little and the lttle 125 pulls nice and clean. I found the wr250 a old school off road bike in that its tall and stable or slower handling and will tire a less experienced rider out a lot faster than a small bore wr. The reason everybody rides most of the times is for fun and it hard to beat a small bore Husky wr 125,144,165. The small bore wr will teach you throttle and clutch control with out ripping your arms off which might be a little frustating at first but once you get the feel of bike it the most fun you can have on a bike if you are riding slow single track. This is only my oppion and might be wrong.

 

[Kyle Tarry]

Starting the 300 is "interesting." I get mine on the 1st or 2nd kick almost always, but it takes some technique and some strength. Starting is super subjective, some guys would say "it starts easy" and some would say "it's impossible." You've definitely just got to try it for yourself.

As far as the power... that's subjective too, but the 250/300s are really f'ing saucy. The thing is that 2 stroke power delivery is very different than a 4-stroke. Because of the tiny amount of rotating mass, they are very "snappy," which I love, but it definitely demands that your smooth on the throttle. I love 2-strokes because they lug so well; they might not make a ton of power down low (although I think it's pretty good), but they'll turn over at what seems like about 200 rpm, whereas my experience is that a 4-stroke just gives up below some engine speed and flames out.

Even though you sold your 449, I'd still be happy to let you ride mine. I wish I had known, I was out this weekend and we could have met up. Anyway, my offer still stands, but you'll have to wait until the end of the month.

Note: I am not advocating that you get a 300. I think that a 144/165 would be just as good for you, and I think both bikes could work great. I think you should try to ride them both, and I happen to have one of the big bikes so I am trying to offer what insight I can into them.

 

[mikebru]

Thanks for the thoughtful responses guys. Now the 144 sounds good again! This site is great, though, for this very reason.

Thanks for the offer, Kyle. I'll see where I'm at in the process at the end of March. May have to strike while the iron is hot with what's available.

Mike

 

[uranys]

I have both bikes, a 2009 wr250 and a 2009 wb165 and i've ridden a 449 a few times.

I like the 449, the power is nice and smooth and I didn't have much trouble adjusting to it except the way the side panels get wider towards the back of the bike. I move around a lot and they banged the back of my knees.

Handling wise the 125/144/165 feels like cheating compared to the 250 or 449. I would describe it as almost psychic, it just kind of goes wherever you want it.

The big question in my mind is will I feel a big weight difference and feel between the 250 and 449?

Hell yes. The 250 will feel lighter and the 125/144/165 even more so.

will the 250 be too much for me since I've never been on a 2 stroke or will the 144 better suit my slow style

I don't think the 250 would be too much.

The 250 with a gnarly and a lectron makes a great woods motor. It lugs down almost to a stop and still rips pretty good up top and it's got a pretty linear delivery. If it turned like the tiddler it would be the best bike in the universe. The 125/144 make good power but you'll be shifting more. The 165 kit is as popular as it is because it goes a long way in bridging the gap power-wise.

I agree with Kyle, you should try to get a ride on both bikes. A real ride if possible, not just putting around a yard or parking lot.

 

[mikebru]

Great info, thanks uranys (typed with a straight face).

 

[msmith345]

My opinion is that you'll have to work a lot harder on the 125/144/165 than the 250/300.

I really haven't ridden my brother's WR144 that much, it's fun in the more open trails, but when things get technical, I much prefer my 300. I'm 200lbs, so I always feel like I'm straining a small bore. I raced a KTM 200 for 4 years and it was the same thing, fun but I had to work for it, and it really needed to work a lot more than if I was 30 lbs less. With the 300, I can be a lot more lazy and I don't have to get the revs up and work the clutch near as much. So, most maneuvering I can do with the throttle only. Am I faster on a 300? Open trail, no. Tight and technical with huge elevation changes, logs, rock gardens, and extreme conditions, I'm absolutely faster on the 300.

It really just depends on what feels right to you, but one thing's for sure, but are a huge step up from a 449 in handling and ridability off road.

 

[firedog55]

I had the same quandry. My WR450F is big and fast but heavy and hard to change directions on in the woods. I considered the WR250/300s, but decided to go LIGHT, and bought a new CR125 from Hall's. Couldn't find a WR125 close or reasonably priced so I bought a CR and am in the process of making it more woods usable. I kept the WR for times when I ride open areas or fire roads. Good luck with your choice.

Here's my post on the CR conversion:
http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/14-cr125-to-woods-weapon.39971/

 

[Chef]

I ride a 125 , a 144 and a 250. I am faster on the 144 but I do have to work a lot harder than on the 250. That being said, at he end of a days ride I feel more like I've been doing aerobic excercises when I'm on the small bore as opposed to weightlifting when I've been on the bigger bike.

 

[Pedec]

Chef that is a very good comparsion. Like I said before small bore 2 strokes teach good riding habits you need to ride the bike to make it go fast not just open the throttle.

 

[mikebru]

Once again great input, thanks. I really like reading all of the viewpoints. Keep 'em coming. There are lots of nuances to think about. Seems like I can't go too wrong either way.

 

[rockdancer]

I will say I have a 165 but for years I have been thinking of going up to a 250 to feed my desire for more power - I think the 250 will have the power I am looking for without the high compression ( which I cant really run due to fuel type)
I am sure that a 165 can be made to really fly though . I would look at newer 250s 2011 on

 

[edmoto]

I came to riding the CR125 as a woods bike from riding a KLX400, XR250, KTM640, and a VOR. I like the CR (doing a full woods conversion like Firedog55) best for trail riding after having been on all the others.

- even with it being a 125 (I've adjusted the PV, and use a Lectron) I find I can modulate the throttle pretty smoothly. Not like my experience from 15 years ago with a 125 where the power was weak weak weak then WHAM comes the power. However, if I am sloppy with the throttle, or get a little whisky throttle going on, my 125 will remind me my butt is only 37 or so inches from the ground.

- Rekluse makes shifting a non issue, so plodding along with zero risk of stalls helps make me ride very smoothly. But I have been toying with the idea of going back to full manual throttle because I think the 125 has made me a better rider and I think fanning the throttle could be fun again (that was not so when I started riding the 125, and stalled out on a switchback where the downslope side was on the left and I couldn't put a foot down to kick the bike over and start it again... main reason I got the Rekluse)

- the lack of engine braking is an experience which for me, I have become a big fan. When I was even just a little into the power of one of my four strokes and then chopped the throttle the bike would lurch forward (engine braking). I have my suspension set up very soft, so the bike would pitch forward a little (sometimes a lot). That is normally called bad riding technique. But on the 125 I can roll on, whack on, hit the power and chop the throttle and the bike stays balanced. Great for sloppy roots and rock riding.

- light is right. The sensation of turning, stopping, balancing a 125 2 stroke is worlds apart from any 4 stroke I've ridden. And it is a feeling for the better.

There has been a downside, which I am learning to overcome (thanks to all the recent warm and cold, melt and freeze weather). On the 125, even with careful throttle control and riding a gear higher, when it is slick the rear wheel can spin up easy in low traction conditions. In those conditions I sometimes miss the chug chug and torque of one of my 4 strokes. But I recently came to a realization... sit back, loosen arms, let the bike dance a little and loosen my sphincter and my 125 will roll, spin, and wiggle its way through snow, mud and muck pretty well. I was able to get through the same conditions on the 4 stroke a little easier, but I was more tired after riding those conditions on a 4 stroke than the the 2 stroke. I chalk that up to the weight differences.

Any my final comment is that, even with only a fair bit of mechanical skill (I can boil water and eat burritos with one hand), I have been able to fully service my 125 without any issues. I've saved plenty versus going to the dealership for top ends, bad acting power valve, carb adjustment, and clutch service by doing all the servicing myself. I've never had a bike as easy and inviting for me to work on, and I love that aspect of a Husky (Italian) 125. Nothing turned me off more from a bike than trying to get to the carb on the KLX400, or valves for adjust on the 640, or sorting out a decompression issue on the XR250.

I have no experience with a 250/300 2 stroke, but if given a choice and had money to spend on another bike, I'd chose a 2009-newer CR125, convert it to woods riding, and install a 144 or 165 kit.

Good luck!

 

[troy deck]

dont for get about wallies new 177 stroker i an a BIG dude even as a 12 year old and well over 200 lbs and riding up anything on old DT an IT 175s unless your some sorta freak a 125 based bike can get it done 4t have there place but its not off down in tite greasy rocky rooty steep woods or in your case knee deep sand whoops and jack pines and the 2 hour $200 top end jobs are nice

 

[shrubitup]

My opinion is that you'll have to work a lot harder on the 125/144/165 than the 250/300.

I really haven't ridden my brother's WR144 that much, it's fun in the more open trails, but when things get technical, I much prefer my 300. I'm 200lbs, so I always feel like I'm straining a small bore. I raced a KTM 200 for 4 years and it was the same thing, fun but I had to work for it, and it really needed to work a lot more than if I was 30 lbs less. With the 300, I can be a lot more lazy and I don't have to get the revs up and work the clutch near as much. So, most maneuvering I can do with the throttle only. Am I faster on a 300? Open trail, no. Tight and technical with huge elevation changes, logs, rock gardens, and extreme conditions, I'm absolutely faster on the 300.

It really just depends on what feels right to you, but one thing's for sure, but are a huge step up from a 449 in handling and ridability off road.

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