TE630 Rear Tire Replacement

[CJBROWN]

I burned through a set of Motoz in about 600 miles. If you do a lot of pavement riding, they won't last long at all. Pirelli MT21 has been the perfect balance of mileage and good off road hookup for me.

Was it the Desert HT or one of the other models? From what I've been able to gather, the Desert HT is of harder compound, closer spaced knobs, and very much more durable.

They do seem to be most popular for dirt. And it seems anything with a tall or aggressive knob is squirelly on pavement.

 

[rjdenya]

I'm a little skeptical about how they work. They're just little spheres rolling around inside the wheel, right? Seems like they would just settle into low spots as the wheel spins, without regard to balancing weight.

jtemple, check out this link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq263AYgyYg

 

[zoomdude57]

Replaced mine with a Dunlop 606. No noticable difference in size. Much better off road tire but a bit noisier on the highway.

+1 and worth it! Greatly improved off road and acceptable for the road. Now going to try a 606 up front as I still have a Karoo.

 

[rjdenya]

+1 and worth it! Greatly improved off road and acceptable for the road. Now going to try a 606 up front as I still have a Karoo.

I had a pair of Dunlop 606's on my DRZ400S. They were terrible in the sand and also quite loud on the street. Other than that they are close in performance and tread wear as my current Pirelli MT-21's.

 

[zoomdude57]

I had a pair of Dunlop 606's on my DRZ400S. They were terrible in the sand and also quite loud on the street. Other than that they are close in performance and tread wear as my current Pirelli MT-21's.

So far road noise not much more than the Karoos. Not much sand where I ride. MT21s are wrorth consideration though.

 

[Stroker Ace]

I'm curious what you hated about the Dyna Beads? Once installed they never need replacement, or adjustment, you can't see them...or hear them...or know they are there. They constantly adjust as the tire wears. Please explain.

Put them in and they didn't balance.... the front tire would bounce off of the ground at high speed. I didn't have a rim lock though, so that may have been part of it. There's no way to tell how much you need unless you go to a balance stand and find out how much you need, then you need to dust off your cocain gram scale to weigh them out. Last but not least, you get a flat, switch tubes and there you are. I cut my old tubes open to get them out but was afraid to try them again. Or you loose them altogether and you have to buy more. With these neat looking re-usables all of that is off the table. Set screw them on, change flats all you want,(careful not to rotate the tire while fixing the flat), hit the road, and you're still balanced. Get a new tire, take them off , re-balance, put them back on, done. Like I said, buy one set, and you're done. This way just works better for me..... The rims on these bikes are too narrow to deal with the stick ons, and they do look awful, and come off too easy,so I use them to get the desired weight to balance, then match it with the re-useables and I'm done...... hope this helps, my bike rides like a dream now......

 

[ContraHusky]

I'm a little skeptical about how they work. They're just little spheres rolling around inside the wheel, right? Seems like they would just settle into low spots as the wheel spins, without regard to balancing weight.

That's not what they do because the wheel is not on a fixed axle...it's on a suspension. They settle opposite the heaviest part of the wheel once the wheel is up to speed. Well-established physics behind it*. They work if you use the right amount and install them properly. It can take as much as 4oz of beads on a wheel with a rimlock. That said, getting them in and out of a tube makes them less than optimal, IMO, for dual sport bikes. Much better for tubless wheels.

*Same way a washer balances on spin cycle. The axle is not rigid -- the tub can move around off-axis as it spins. If the clothes are stacked up on one side, the water moves to the other side. When washers won't spin smoothly, it's usually because the springs that suspend the transmission are not working right and the axle is too rigid.

 

[jtemple]

Was it the Desert HT or one of the other models? From what I've been able to gather, the Desert HT is of harder compound, closer spaced knobs, and very much more durable.

They do seem to be most popular for dirt. And it seems anything with a tall or aggressive knob is squirelly on pavement.

Enduro IT. The Deserts are supposed to be a bit tougher.

 

[jtemple]

That's not what they do because the wheel is not on a fixed axle...it's on a suspension. They settle opposite the heaviest part of the wheel once the wheel is up to speed. Well-established physics behind it*. They work if you use the right amount and install them properly. It can take as much as 4oz of beads on a wheel with a rimlock. That said, getting them in and out of a tube makes them less than optimal, IMO, for dual sport bikes. Much better for tubless wheels.

*Same way a washer balances on spin cycle. The axle is not rigid -- the tub can move around off-axis as it spins. If the clothes are stacked up on one side, the water moves to the other side. When washers won't spin smoothly, it's usually because the springs that suspend the transmission are not working right and the axle is too rigid.

How do you get them into the tubes, anyway? Cut a slit & patch it? Stuff them into the valve stem?

 

[CJBROWN]

How do you get them into the tubes, anyway? Cut a slit & patch it? Stuff them into the valve stem?

They are funnelled into the valve stem and a special core is then inserted.
Don't feel bad, I don't like them either. Too much hassle.

After balancing mine on the inside with tape weights it's easy, permenant, and invisible.
Once I got my wheel within a quarter ounce of balance I put one bead of the tire on the rim, and the rim lock, and re-balanced, spinnng the tire around the rim until I found precise balance. I did not need to add any more weight. The red dot on the tire ended up aligning to the heavy spot on the rim assembly. If I had needed a bit more weight to balance then I would have added a quarter ounce block to the rim by bending it so it would fit onto the center mound, or get some of the spoke weights. Then inserted the tube and mounted the other bead, aired up to seat...works perfectly.

The dynabeads come under all kind of brand names for truck and RV's too. Seem to be popular, but there are associated problems, like stuck valve cores, not enough to balance, and a mess if the tire needs to be changed, patched, or they get water in them.

 

[rjdenya]

Put them in and they didn't balance.... the front tire would bounce off of the ground at high speed. I didn't have a rim lock though, so that may have been part of it. There's no way to tell how much you need unless you go to a balance stand and find out how much you need, then you need to dust off your cocain gram scale to weigh them out. Last but not least, you get a flat, switch tubes and there you are. I cut my old tubes open to get them out but was afraid to try them again. Or you loose them altogether and you have to buy more. With these neat looking re-usables all of that is off the table. Set screw them on, change flats all you want,(careful not to rotate the tire while fixing the flat), hit the road, and you're still balanced. Get a new tire, take them off , re-balance, put them back on, done. Like I said, buy one set, and you're done. This way just works better for me..... The rims on these bikes are too narrow to deal with the stick ons, and they do look awful, and come off too easy,so I use them to get the desired weight to balance, then match it with the re-useables and I'm done...... hope this helps, my bike rides like a dream now......

Motorcycles


Motorcycle applications are easy for all bikes, 2 wheel or 3 wheel


Front


80 - 120 mm tire width

1 oz


80 - 120 mm tire width (BMW Telelever only)

2 oz


130 mm tire width

2 oz


Rear


130 mm - 240 mm width

2 oz


250 mm - 360mm tire width

3 oz


195 - 205 car tires on the rear

3 oz


Scooters


10" diameter wheels (scooters)

1 oz


12" & Up diameter wheels (scooters)

2 oz


Dual Purpose / Off Road with Rim Locks


Front - 80 - 120 mm tire width

2 oz


Rear - 130 -230 mm width

3 oz

Rim Locks - add one ounce over what you normaly use for that size tire to accomodate the additional weight of the rim lock. Two rim locks opposite each other don't require any more Dyna Beads other than stated above, as they have a tendency to cancel each other out.

Note: Filtered valve cores do not fit all stems. They require a seat 1-1/4" down in the stem. If you cannot use them, simply rotate the tire so the valve stem is about the 6:00 position, then give the valve stem a quick shot of air prior to checking pressure.


www.innovativebalancing.com

A 3oz bag of Dyna Beads cost $8.99. If you get a flat and need a new tube the beads are cheap.

My 2c

 

[ghost man]

Good luck with that 908 it may look aggressive but traction is practically nil, they are real heavy and suck up HP to turn them, they ride horrible on the road and God help you if you ever have to make a tire repair in the field because the side-walls are so stiff that it takes two elephants and a small boy to push them onto the rim.

Rajobigguy thank you for the best wishes!

Here is my experience so far. Did about 150 miles on the 908's a little mud, forest service roads and pavement dry and raining. Good news is they hook up better than the karoos on all surfaces, more than 1 surprise wheelie where the karoos justed roosted. I did not compare the weight side by side so I can not speak to the weight issue or HP theft, but it seems about the same amount of power maybe a little more? Either way I am in for at least another 1,000 miles (at least) I hope. I did not notice any difference on the road up to about 85. I hope I do not get to experience the joys of plugging any more tires but if I do I will post the results.

 

[rjdenya]

Did a bunch of online research last night on balancing DS tires with rim locks.

The consensus is that a balanced tire on a motorcycle going over 60mph is a REALLy good idea. There are handling and wear issues otherwise. One guy said his tire bounced all they way off the road it was so far out of balance. The consensus is also that rim locks are a really good idea for more aggressive knobby tires used off road, and where air pressure drops below 20-22lbs. Otherwise you risk tire slip which is likely to pull the valve stem out. More than inconvenient when riding way out in the wilds.

One solution was to notch the bead area of the rim with a sharp chisel, angled for accellerating on the rear, and for braking on the front. Nice idea, but I'm not real keen on chewing up brand new $250 Excels and then still have the tire slip if it gets too low.

The new motion pro lightweight rim locks are one way to go. They're expensive, but save an ounce or so, more on the rear.

Some are using two rim locks across from each other to balance. Makes tire mounting a real biatch though. Two of the new lightweight rim locks for the rear is about $35. The old style ones would run about $16.

There are wheel weights that clamp onto the spokes. Another expensive option. You could easily spend $20-$40 per wheel buying enough weights to balance standard rim locks which weigh about 3.5 ounces for the rear. The problem is the rim locks weigh quite a bit no matter which, so it takes a lot of weight to counter balance them. Somebody else suggested wrapping silver-solder onto the spoke nipples and up the spoke 'till you get enough on there to balance the wheel. Yuk!

The very best solution I found and the one I'm going with (don't know why I didn't think of it!) is to balance the wheel with the rim lock before mounting the tire. Bend and mould tape weights into the rim groove inside, and then duct tape over them.

Do final balance after mounting with either tape weights or spoke weights. I'm going to bend the tape weights the other way for the outside so they'll mount between the spokes on the crown of the rim. They are too wide to go onto the rim flats, but will fit between the spokes just fine. Once the wheel is balanced it shouldn't take more than an ounce or so to finish balancing the whole assembly.

BTW, I have never used rim strips. I always just pull them off and throw them away. I use duct tape, rip about a third of a 2" roll to about 5/8's of an inch wide and go about four wraps around the rim groove over the spoke nipples, and then cut out holes for the stem and rim lock with a knife. It seals the spoke nipples and protects the tube from them, never slips or gets out of place, and makes mounting and getting the tube and rim lock in there WAY easier.

I have a Rally-Pro front tire coming, will do a write-up when I do all the mounting and balancing. Going to add rim locks to both ends and balance everything up.

EDIT: Oops! Quoting the above post was pointless . I thouhgt I hit "reply" on a different quote from CJBROWN.

CJBROWN,

I like my current Pirelli MT-21 front and rear set up but would consider trying something new. I see you are happy with the Pirelli Scorpion Rally front tire. I'm thinking the Scorpion Rally front or MT-21 paired with a Mefo Super Explorer on the rear. I do have some concerns with the Mefo rear tire. Will it be good enough off road compared to an MT-21?? It's not a full knobby tire but looks aggressive enough. I'd be willing to give up some traction for longer life. I try to go easy on the pavement when accelerating and braking because I want to save the usable MT-21 tread. When talking tread life there is a bit of a grey area. Some guys run a tire until it's bald and useless. Others, me included, toss the tire when the usable tread life is gone. If I could get at least 3,000 miles out of a rear Mefo Super Explorer and have acceptable off road traction then it may be worth the money. My first rear MT-21 was tossed at 1,000 miles. It had some life left in it but not enough for me off road.

Let us know how much and where you can get the Mefo. PM me if you don't want to broadcast the info. This thread has got my wheels spinning...no pun intended!

I did see the Mefo for $170.00 on twistedthrottle.com. Above you mentioned $150.00

 

[CJBROWN]

CJBROWN,

I like my current Pirelli MT-21 front and rear set up but would consider trying something new. I see you are happy with the Pirelli Scorpion Rally front tire. I'm thinking the Scorpion Rally front or MT-21 paired with a Mefo Super Explorer on the rear. I do have some concerns with the Mefo rear tire. Will it be good enough off road compared to an MT-21?? It's not a full knobby tire but looks aggressive enough. I'd be willing to give up some traction for longer life. I try to go easy on the pavement when accelerating and braking because I want to save the usable MT-21 tread. When talking tread life there is a bit of a grey area. Some guys run a tire until it's bald and useless. Others, me included, toss the tire when the usable tread life is gone. If I could get at least 3,000 miles out of a rear Mefo Super Explorer and have acceptable off road traction then it may be worth the money. My first rear MT-21 was tossed at 1,000 miles. It had some life left in it but not enough for me off road.

Let us know how much and where you can get the Mefo. PM me if you don't want to broadcast the info. This thread has got my wheels spinning...no pun intended!

I did see the Mefo for $170.00 on twistedthrottle.com. Above you mentioned $150.00

I couldn't have said all this better myself, my thoughts exactly. I don't like worn out tires, I also replace them when they get worn enough to degrade traction performance. The MT21 is said to be very much so-so offroad, good on road, but wears out very quickly. Same for the 606, great offroad, super popular, surprising on road, but wears out really quickly. I'm not real excited about any tire that's gonna wear out at or around a thousand miles. Unless they're really cheap of course! Then you just buy another one and throw it on there for your next big ride.

Trail Tricks is the west coast distributor for Mefo. If you write Javier from his contact link at his site and you're a ADV inmate he'll quote you $150 plus shipping and tax if you're in CA. www.trailtricks.com That's for the 140/80/18 Super Explorer.

I too have some concerns about the super explorer. Some of the reports I've found from the super enduro riders (KTM 950/990) say they are just outstanding, in fact Javier regularly runs his through Mexico and all over south America and he says it's the very best tire going. He is also the one that cinched it for me on the scorpion rally - good call there. Others have said the Mefo is a great tire if you like to spin up the rear offroad. I'm okay with that, steering with the throttle is fun! It's just not going to hook up as well as a 908 or a 606, or obviously a kenda trackmaster, etc. But it grips well enough for dualsport riding, gives outstanding performance on road and of course it has the extended life we're looking for - like up to or more than 5K miles. If that's the case I think they might be worth the extra bucks to buy one. Traction can't be any worse than the Karoo Traveler they put on stock, that thing spins all over the place. If it's just equal I'd be happy to gain the durability and keep the road manners.

It's been said over and ove that any tire with tall aggressive knobs is said to be mushy on road, squirmy is the word I see a lot. Plus the smaller contact patch makes some downright treacherous on wet pavement, and of course they wear out really quickly if you run them on the road much. The 908 is over $200. It's THE tire for the 950/990 guys, but not many like them much on road and it's not any better than anything else off road. But it's durable enough for the super high horsepower bikes, so seems to be their ticket. For the TE? I think not so much. The 690 guys seem to really go for the 606, as do the DRZ guys. It's probably a good tire for the TE as well, but plan to get a thousand miles out of it.

I did some more searching and kept hearing about the Michelin T63. It is a lot like the Karoo, but better traction and a little better wear. Same knob pattern as their world famous desert baja racing tire that has been discontinued. I was all set to order one from motorcycle superstore for $67 but they're backordered. The Scorpion Rally rear is also reported good and it is also a relatively cheap tire at about $70. For a really cheap tire like these, if they work good then would be worth it even if you only got 1200 miles out of them. As I've said, my $150 Karoo traveler that came on the bike is pretty much toast at 750 miles. Screw that!!!

So there are some good choices out there. I have a bunch of stuff selling on ebay and as soon as I have the funds to pop for a tire I'll pull the trigger on one of them. I'm still up in the air!

 

[Huskyfly]

TKC-80 from Continental on the front and a Mefo Super Explorer on the rear

The Mefo..

This tire is 98.915% a Heidenau K-60 Scout!!! Not a cheap tire but the rear I have on my 1200GS has 13,000 miles on it. NO JOKE!!!

http://www.moto-amore.com/heidenau/index.html

 

[CJBROWN]

That's right, virtually the same tire. I think each is made on the other side of the wall.

So, what do you think about running it on the 630??? Enough traction offroad for a 70/30 dirt bias? Seems to me they call it a 50/50 tire.

 

[Huskyfly]

That's right, virtually the same tire. I think each is made on the other side of the wall.

So, what do you think about running it on the 630??? Enough traction offroad for a 70/30 dirt bias? Seems to me they call it a 50/50 tire.

Well, all things considered it's about as true 50/50 for a big enduro (KTM 990/1200GS etc) that I've been able to find. Throw in how well it wears (most people get 7K-10K out of a rear) and there's not much to complain about.....well, maybe price?! About $169 for a rear and $139 for a front. Most (BIG BIKES ie... KTM 990/1200GS owners) go with a TKC80 front IF they need MORE traction as it gives better traction than a K-60 front (although I use the K-60 front and rear). To me it's hard to beat for the wear and how hard and durable this tire is. NOT AT ALL AN EASY TIRE TO REPLACE ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD!! Hard as hell side wall!! As a side note, IT'S NOT THE END ALL BE ALL TIRE.......but a great option IMHO.

For the 630, the great thing is that there's LOT'S of options depending on how you want the bike to be set up. The K-60 in the 140/80 still has the old thread block pattern ( see it here http://www.moto-amore.com/heidenau/k60_spread_english.png ) that for the Husky should give a good balance for grip and wear. I'm no expert, I'm not an aggressive rider, but I did do some crazy riding at the Rawhyde Adventure Challenge in Moab and for having 10K-11K on my K-60's (1200GS), I thought they did great!

To sum it up, yes I think it's a true 50/50 tire, probably the only true 50/50 tire on the market and certainly the only true 50/50 tire that gives good grip on road with great wear of any tire on the market for all terrain. From this medium I think tires either go more 80/20 (80% on-road/20% off-road) or 20/80 ( 20% on-road/80-% off-road ). The latter is spec'ed more on personal preference and off-road terrain choice......but I'm no expert. I do know Heidenau makes moto-cross DOT approved tires and I'm trying to get the importer to get's some to try out. I suspect their wear life, for a full knobby off-road tire, is probably pretty good.....but it's just a guess.

 

[rjdenya]

Thanks to CJBROWN and others who posted their valuable personal experiences with tires. Now I'm thoroughly confused on what to buy next . Seriously though, my MT-21's are fairly new and work well so I'm in good shape for a while.

One last tire to consider is a Pirelli MT-43 trials rear tire. I have no personal experience with this tire but it gets great reviews on Motorcycle Superstore's product review section. Have a look if you want.

 

[CJBROWN]

Thank you. I dig for info and happy to pass it along. I'm like a sponge...it all goes in and gets mix-mashed and I can forumulate strategies and recommendations based on all the input. Did the same thing for the road bikes (Kawasaki Versys) and ended up with fantastic tires that perfectly fit my riding style. I've become a real fan of Pirelli tires in general - they have the broadest selection for the widest applications, and everything is always good quality.

I run the MT43 on my KTM 250XCFW. It's the bike I use for TST (tight single track) but also gets out to the desert. No license plate on that one so it only sees dirt. It is a fantastic tire for that bike. It just never slips. It does take some getting used to because you can't power-slide in corners. It hooksup and follows the front wheel so it's a different feel on the trail. I've only put a dozen hours on mine, but it hardly shows wear. They are reported to last 3-5 times longer than a regular knobby. Good info and testimonials here: http://stewardsofthesequoia.org/Ultimate_trail_tire.html

BTW, the Pirelli is the one to get, and it's the cheapest. The michelin one is too expensive and too soft. The IRC one doesn't hook up as well and also costs more. 2 rim locks are suggested as you'll run 6-8lbs off road and 20 on. When running way low psi the likelyhood of slipping the tire on the rim is very high. I have one lock and need to add another, it's stlipped a bit and starting to pull the stem over - from braking though, not accelleration! These things even hook up in a sand wash!

It is a radial with soft sidewalls, and there aren't side knobs, so there are some limitations. It cakes with mud so not so good there. And it is said to be squirmy at speeds over 50 mph on road. One of the reasons it hooks up so well is the flexible knobs, but a high-HP bike with a rider that likes to roost will litterally shred them. I do think it's the ultimate trail tire and will never change it off the trail bike. I'm just not convinced yet that it's the answer for the big dualsport. It is also quite a narrow tire and due to it's flexibility I have doubts about its weight carrying capacity. A few guys have run them on the big bikes though, and they like them for trails and slickrock. It is THE tire for Moab.

Oh, and it's DOT approved so no problem there.

 

[CJBROWN]

Well, I've got a brand new Karoo that I put up on ebay and couldn't get a bid for $45. So I guess I'll run it myself. Have a big trip coming up to Death Valley with a lot of miles so I'll change out the stock K2 Traveler.

I have a brand new front too, had it up for sale but no takers, and the stock traveler for the front that I took off at 600 miles. No buyers for tires at cheap prices.

If the Karoo is crappy or wears out really fast then I'll have to spring for one of these great tires we've been discussing.

I ended up ordering one of the new super light rim locks for the rear because the standard one is over 3oz. Will take a helluva lot of weights to balance it. At least the lite one is just 2oz. Getting the front balanced with a standard went just fine since for the 1.60 rim they're only 2oz.