TE449 Used Oil Analysis

[danny318]

 

[Tinken]

cSt @100 seems a little low.

 

[OlderHuskyRider]

cSt @100 seems a little low.

That's why I am trying to stay above 40, running 7w45 (mixing oils), I wish M1 made a 10w50

 

[Tinken]

It's because it is Motul, not because it's 10W40.

 

[Blaster11]

So where did you get this done and what does it cost?

 

[OlderHuskyRider]

So where did you get this done and what does it cost?

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/what-is-oil-analysis.php

 

[Arctra]

It's because it is Motul, not because it's 10W40.

Maybe, but I dunno about that - I'd reckon it's coz fuel has made it past the piston rings and has diluted the oil a bit. The Honda CRF450R piston only (used to) have a single ring and used 10w-30 oil - after 5 hours of riding the oil would come out like water coz it was so diluted.

That's why I am trying to stay above 40, running 7w45 (mixing oils), I wish M1 made a 10w50

I use 10w-50 in my bike - but I think it's Motul 5100.

I disagree with their suggestion that you increase your use between service intervals. Frequent changes (i.e. no more than 5 hours between changing the oil) using a cheaper (i.e. non-synthetic) is better than going longer with a fully synthetic oil. Synthetic oils are better in modern multi-cylinder engines that have VERY long service intervals (like my VW has 15000km service intervals) as they take longer and much higher temps to shear. If you drop your oil in your bike every 5hrs you don't have to worry about the oil shearing and degrading as much as it is not in there long enough to cause damage/wear. Another advantage of putting fresh oil in frequently is that any carbon, filings, dust, etc build up in the oil is avoided as it is replaced with fresh oil.

In my opinion - and remember, it's just an opinion - used oil analysis is very useful for commercial equipment that ones livelihood depends on, such as with tractors and commercial trucks. Their service intervals are generally longer and so the oil can tell a better story. Frankly it is quite amaizing what a good oil analysis can do with such vehicles. But for your dirt bike with short service intervals, it's little more than "of interest".

 

[Rearwheelin]

Always nice to see results . Talk is cheep.

Can you take a picture of some of that oil on a paper towel so we can see how dirty it is and maybe another pic of the used oil in a sample jar

 

[Tinken]

Maybe, but I dunno about that - I'd reckon it's coz fuel has made it past the piston rings and has diluted the oil a bit. The Honda CRF450R piston only (used to) have a single ring and used 10w-30 oil - after 5 hours of riding the oil would come out like water coz it was so diluted.

His % of fuel is TR (trace amounts). His oil has clearly broken down in as little as 307 miles. I also disagree with their suggestion to increase your service intervals.

 

[smadams68]

Having worked as a metallurgical engineer for many years and still do, as well as having the opportunity as a young man to work alongside some old pro's in the fuel and oil laboratory for a major railroad I gathered a great deal of experience working with Optical Emission Spectrometers. I eventually came to understand the spectrometer quite well and was responsible for calibrations for both solid metal alloys as well as used oil analysis. Having this capability, also helped me diagnose the crank I had bought for my old 350 chevy. I guess I got lazy plasti-gauging every journal during the build so you might guess the last journal (7 and 8 piston) was too large. Copper and lead through the roof on the analyses. Your wear metals look great for a newly assembled motor and the comments in your report I would agree with. I by no means can advise in regards to oil viscosity, but their is a trade off. An oil that is a little thinner may not provide the hydrodynamic film/barrier puncture strength, but it does increase oil flow and improve cooling. Get another oil analysis done when using the same oils, keep track of mileage, then you can see the wear metals fall way off after break in. Scott

 

[smadams68]

I would agree with Tinken regarding oil change intervals per mileage. These newer 4 stroke higher performance, low oil capacity motors I would change before 600 miles if it were my bike, especially if riding hard woods, racing, overheating, and chugging mud and hills. But then again if I were to take a cross country dirt road trip, I would not be stopping every day to change oil, but maybe every other day. I had a modern racing 4 stroke once, but only for a few months. I believe just over 1 qt of oil was supposed to handle clutch wear and lube vital engine bearing, and take the extreme heat of single track chugging. Went back to 2 stroke.

 

[smadams68]

For those interested in analyses, find a lab. who provides these oil analyses or a local large scale diesel engine rebuilder shop who can do the leg work to send samples to the lab they use. send two samples, one of the exact oil you run out of the bottle and one used oil sample from the motor (label the sample as you see fit). warm the bike up, pull the plug and let some run, then gather some oil from mid-stream. About a third cup is plenty to run vis and spectro for wear metals. Ask only for viscosity and wear metal analysis, anything more for a good old husky is wasting your money. To be honest, it's kind of a waste of money being that you have a husky. In my case I had free analysis, just so happened that I rebuilt a high horse power 350 chevy, and I started hearing knocking inside the motor. Sure enough the spectro analysis put me to the crank bearings, and of course it was the last bearing cap I pulled that was shelled out. On the other hand, I was able to diagnose the problem by just pulling the pan, but then of course had to pull the motor to regrind one crank journal.

 

[Rearwheelin]

If the oil is dark change it. I try sticking with the same oil when possible, every once in a while I go to the next best brand I like. My other oil test I do is put my finger in it mid stream when dumping and rub my fingers together feeling the grit of my finger prints. Tested oil this way for 50,000 miles on a DR 650 at 600 mile oil change intervals , ran great when I sold it. The first time I used motul was the last, this was back in the 90's so I'm sure motul has changed there blends, somthing about the neon green oil didnt seem right to me anyway, toast after 600 . I have not gone over 300 miles with mine yet. Have usually changed it between 100-200 miles just because it needs more changing when they are newer and do my finger test everytime ! I gues if you don't have the touch you can send it to the lab lol

 

[Huskynoobee]

That's some good points you bring up smadams. My specially calibrated seat of my pants, the Rearwheelin finger dab, and my eye all told me that these engines do not fully break in until 600+ miles. But I change my oil three times in that period.

 

[Rearwheelin]

Just my snarky 2 cents fellas , carry on

 

[smadams68]

huskynoobee and Rearwheelin,
I hear you, we all have our own techniques of taking care of our babies, and trust me, I will never send my bike oil out for analysis nor would I suggest anyone to do so. Used oil analysis is really geared for high dollar motors where if something fails, it is more than catastrophic and the end result well exceeds the cost of a husky. Locomotives, and other large diesel engines which take multiple 55 gallon drums to fill the crankcase use these diagnostic tests to determine when the oil has lost its properties or is contaminated, they don't change oil based on some mileage rule or what some oil rep salesman suggests. Monitoring the oil can catch and watch for spikes in wear metals, detect coolant leaks, burnt oil residues, etc, in the effort to catch a motor in distress before rods are pushed through cases, a valve drops, or a piston shatters, or god forbid a crank fails. In the end, I would say to Daniel, go ride that scooter, and have fun doing it. Change the oil every 2 to 3 hundred miles based on how hard you work the motor, and most importantly, clean the air filter after dusty rides. Enjoy. Scott

 

[Huskynoobee]

Just my snarky 2 cents fellas , carry on

I like your 2 cents, with mine we've got four. Scott, I knew those engines were big, but wow!!! My 800 hp V12 generator only holds about 40 gals. How long does that oil change take?

 

[Rearwheelin]

I like your 2 cents, with mine we've got four. Scott, I knew those engines were big, but wow!!! My 800 hp V12 generator only holds about 40 gals. How long does that oil change take?

I would think about a hour or less depending on how fast you can get the oil into a 55 gal drum pulled 3,000 gallons out of a crank case with a vacum truck. The NG powered gas compessor had pistons that came on it's own pallet. That was a 3 hour job by the time I dumped it into oilfield production

 

[Mike-AK]

Looks like it sheared down pretty bad for only 300 miles, and the zinc and phosphorous is pretty low.

 

[Rearwheelin]

What's the universal average ? And why is there a chart value in celcius ?