TE310 camshaft and rocker arm wear

[xliteredhead]

Hello guys! I did a valve check on my recently bought used 2013 TE 310 red head.
It has approximately 75 hrs on the clock.
I wanted to check the valves especially because it has been having trouble starting with kick- or electric only.

I suspected the left exhaust valve (under the auto decompressor) to be too wide, and boy, it was..
I was strugling a bit with the feeler gauges, but ended on 0,63 mm (spec is 0,20 mm for exhaust and 0,15 mm for inlet). The other three were not more than 0,05 mm from spec.

I also discovered wear of about 0,5 mm (not measured) on the cam shaft lobes. This was both on the left exhaust and left inlet. That is, both camshafts had this wear on their left lobes. Right were fine on both. Also left sided rocker arms were quite worn down. See pictures attached.

So, anyone think I have to change camshafts and rocker arms?
Is this kind of wear indicating that something might be wrong with oil supply on the left side of the cams?
The shims were all 2,05 mm and they go up to 2,60 mm, so i could try to replace the one way off with a 2,50 mm, wich would result in a new clearance of 0,18mm if i'm correct.

Answeres are highly appreciated, as i am quite inexperienced with this to say the least..

 

[hhdwtmtw]

Wow.
The left cam lobe and finger cam follower are stuffed. I think you are on the right track with oil starvation.
Check the oil passages are not blocked and the decompressor functions correctly.
Good luck with the rebuild.

 

[Trenchcoat85]

I would say insure you have oil flow, but only one lobe looks bad.

someone with a '13 TE310R discovered that their ADC was installed wrong from the factory (causing the decompressor to stay on longer), so you might want to check that- it's on that worn exhaust lobe.

good luck.

(later edit: wow. I should've read the post above- they're almost the same)

 

[xliteredhead]

Thanks for answers! The auto decomp seems to work, but not sure how to check other than push it and let it spring back.. I tried to pour engine oil onto the cam housing oil entry hole, and it seems to flow out of all the holes over the lobes and sliding points. However it seems that the holes closest to where the oil comes from, get oil first. Not so surprisingly, but i am thinking that maybe a stuffed oil filter, bad oil or damaged oil pump might have previously resulted in low oil pressure into the cam housing, resulting in starvation to the right sided lobes, furthest away from oil entry... otherwise it could be a manufacturing flaw resulting in too tight passage in the cam housing?

I am thinking of changing both cam shafts + housing. But i want to make sure oil pump is giving enough pressure. Any tips on how to check the oil pump?

Thanks!

 

[Trenchcoat85]

...But i want to make sure oil pump is giving enough pressure. Any tips on how to check the oil pump?

Thanks!

well, the standard method is to measure the oil pressure with a gauge, right where the oil line goes into the head. To do this, get a double banjo bolt, another banjo, and plumb the gauge in. Start the bike up and expect to see at least 20psi in 10 seconds or less.

but that is a pain if you don't have the right stuff. here is the mickey mouse way (you can remove the spark plug to make this work better): take the banjo bolt off the line at the head, hold your thumb and finger over the banjo tightly, hit the electric starter and wait for oil pressure to squeeze by your fingers- making a slight mess. If instead you decide to leave the spark plug in and start the engine up, don't run it too long... maybe 5-20 seconds; and you might wanna pre-lube the upper end (i.e., spray oil around first).

if oil flow and pressure are low or non-existent, make sure the filter is orientated the right way. some reverse installations can block the oil flow. Filters usually come with a pressure bypass in case they are clogged. Check the line and passages if you can, too. If that's not the problem, you probably have an oil pump issue (unless the screen is clogged) which means splitting the cases.

 

[xliteredhead]

Thanks a lot!
Did the mickey mouse way and it made a good mess of oil in the plastic bag after a few seconds. So i assume the oil pump is fine

I also reassembeled the top end with a 2,50mm shim under the decomp, and now she starts easily with the e-start button, unlike before.

I am ordering new cam shafts and rocker-fingers now.
Any thoughts about huskymoto.co.uk for parts in Europe?
The were roughly 60% of local dealer price.

Cheers

 

[xliteredhead]

Ok, back to this te310r top end. I have ridden the bike about 200km since this repair with new cam shafts and finger followers. The bike is running and starting nice with e-start, but i decided to do a little inspection.
The cam lobes are showing vague signs of use, but no wear that i can feel with my fingertip/nail. However the inlet cam shaft is pretty hard to turn, and i remember that from last time beeing the case with both the old and new cams.
There are also wear marks on the sliding surface of the inlet camshaft. The exhaust cam is turning smoothly, but has som vague marks on the sliding surface.
The cam housing journals on the other hand show some pretty clear signs of smear. See attached picture.
With this top end problem and since the rekluse failed on my last trip, and i was also curious to have a look at the piston, i decided to take out the engine for a semi-tear down. (everything but splitting crank case).

Results according to my own inspections and a local MC workshop:
Top end: needs replacement, of if a machinist can add some material and then drill out new holes (expensive and maybe not possible).
Can keep exhaust cam shaft, but inlet should be replaced with new top end.
Cylinder/piston: Very good condition and measured according to service manual.
Crank and conecting rod seems very good with no slack an smooth and silent rotation.
Oil pump also seems to be in very good condition based on visual inspection.

The dilemma now is that i cant find a nice used top end and a new one is like 2500 USD including parts i would have to replace.

Any good suggestions regarding repair of the old top end or how to find a cheaper one?

Thanks!

 

[Trenchcoat85]

I have some good news (sorta): your bike is not worth very much now. In the US a 310R in reasonable shape goes from $2700 to $3900, I would guess. Which is sad for me, too.

So anyway, why is that good news? Because now you can slap your bike together and ride it until you find a new upper end, without worrying about losing any value.

BTW, I would insure that the cam cap is flowing oil (blow through it or something). Actually, check all the top end oil passages. Use a light grease (aka assembly lube) on the bearing surfaces too. And then check to see if the cam rotates any easier... oil film is the bearing surface here. It seems like something is going on in your top end; take a hard look at everything.

If you put on a new cam cap or modify your current one, you may need to align bore the head/cap together. They're usually a matched set.

hold off on this advice to see if anyone says I'm full of shit.

 

[xliteredhead]

Good point! I guess thats about the value here as well. For me though, the value is having a rideable bike vs paying 10k USD for a new one

I sanded the journals until the cam is turning smoothly. My plug key with sand paper is by coincident an EXACT fit and length to do both journals in one. (5/100 of a millimeter thinner than cams with micrometer) So a bit of turning in there did the trick, but of course now the tolerance might be too wide so we'll see how it goes after some riding.. sloppy cams might not be good. However i cant feel any slop after torqing it down.

I found a dent on the top end oil supply hose, kind of a flattened spot. Hopefully that could be causing this..?

One question though; do we still recomend using stainless steel oil filters and 0W-40 oil? I might want to try that as well. I have been running hiflo116 with 10w-50 until now.

 

[Trenchcoat85]

Good point! I guess thats about the value here as well. For me though, the value is having a rideable bike vs paying 10k USD for a new one

I sanded the journals until the cam is turning smoothly. My plug key with sand paper is by coincident an EXACT fit and length to do both journals in one. (5/100 of a millimeter thinner than cams with micrometer) So a bit of turning in there did the trick, but of course now the tolerance might be too wide so we'll see how it goes after some riding.. sloppy cams might not be good. However i cant feel any slop after torqing it down.

I found a dent on the top end oil supply hose, kind of a flattened spot. Hopefully that could be causing this..?

One question though; do we still recomend using stainless steel oil filters and 0W-40 oil? I might want to try that as well. I have been running hiflo116 with 10w-50 until now.

oil: yeah, I'm fully on-board the oil flow theory. I use Mobile-1 0w-40; I'm a little less enthusiastic about the stainless screen oil filter. Probably great for race bikes, but I'm not so sure how they perform in the sub-25micron filtration. Lots of people happy with them though. I also use a Hi-Flo on my 310R.

dent- I doubt it's causing an oil flow issue... but maybe. hook an squirting oil can to the top end and pump oil through it (with and without the cam maybe?) just to see whats going on.

sanding- well, if you still have oil pressure, you're probably okay but be careful. The crap we're talking about would have professional mechanics rolling their eyes.

 

[Trenchcoat85]

complete used xlite engines (250, 310) seem to be going for $2000 and under here in the US.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/12-Husqvar...ash=item2ca2a21c0d:g:CqkAAOSwGvhT5Or-&vxp=mtr

https://www.ebay.com/itm/13-Husqvar...ash=item2ecf296535:g:mzsAAOxy4fVTD5qi&vxp=mtr

good luck.

 

[Johnrg]

You should be able to carefully pinch the line and get it back to round. Not sure what type of hose is under the black cover but assumed mine was crushed braided ss when I got my bike back from it's engine rebuild. Line was pinched and I asked about it and was told it had good pressure. In any case I was not thrilled to have to replace that hose or worry about oil flow and luckily found it came back to shape easily.

 

[TitoMKD]

Hi there , I have TE250 2007 4 stroke and same problem but exhaust valve .

 

[xliteredhead]

Is it possible that your oil filter have been installed the wrong way since the last time you ispected the cam shaft? Or maybe the bike was dropped and left running for a while? Thats what i am suspecting has happened to my bike with the previous owner. Cheers.

 

[TitoMKD]

Hi again, what actually happened, the husky was driven without oil for long time but it was running without problem , after I heard some strange sound coming from valve cover the oil level was 100ml , immediately insert oil Motul 7100 10W60 and after 1-2 hours driving the second (ex) valve brake!! Opened the valve cover and realized that rocker ex arms are like on the pictures!!! The damage of broken valve was expanded -hit valve seat, hit piston , hit cylinder. Bought second hand cam, new rocker arms, new piston, new valve...put it together and run again. Just to be shore that oil pump is not affected from running without oil I put manometer in the oil line where it meats the head *have video but can not upload) the pressure is great 20 psi so Here I am m on road agaiiin ...