te250 timing chain

[tadgh]

i have about 120hours on this bike, all off road either enduros or hare and hound races. lately its beginning to sound noiser and specifically i think the cam chain needs replacement.

the tensioner is barely halfway out so the chain hasnt stretched much, there is side to side movement in the chain on the cam sprocket but i cant lift the chain up off it like you can when a drive chain is worn out.

i know at those hours i probably should do it but i am just curious of anyone elses experience.

i am going to do this myself if it needs it, first time on a husky so what tools do i need?
is the chain in a loop or do i need some kind of chain riveter? is there a timing mark anywhere for TDC or how do i find that? what do i need to take off the generator wheel?
i have seen a few threads about replacing the cams and timing but none on replacing the chain. maybe i could take a few photos of it.

any advice appreciated

 

[tadgh]

sorry just realised that the 2 marks on the sprocket for checking the valve clearances are TDC..

 

[Eurofreak]

You remove the cam chain tensioner, remove the center cam sprocket and water impeller shaft, and then the flywheel. The chain will come out in one piece. You will need the requisite Husky flywheel puller.
What year is your TE?

 

[tadgh]

You remove the cam chain tensioner, remove the center cam sprocket and water impeller shaft, and then the flywheel. The chain will come out in one piece. You will need the requisite Husky flywheel puller.
What year is your TE?

its a 2007 model, wonder would a impact gun work instead of the puller?

 

[Eurofreak]

no- the nut is easy to get off but the flywheel is on a tapered shaft. Got to have a puller.
Is it possible to take the nut off and bring the bike to a dealer just to pull the flywheel?

 

[tadgh]

ok i have gotten the cam chain and the dealer said i ought to do the piston as well, so i am going to do it this week and have the bike ready for a race on sunday.

ok so i have the new piston, rings, wrist pin, two circlip type things for the pin, and the head and base gasket. plus the chain.

i am going to take the motor out of the frame, i assume if rotate up the subframe and remove the bits and bobs the motor comes out easy enough or is there a lot of jiggling?

as for timing, i have seen the marks on the main wheel plus the smaller marks on the head for timing the top end, is there something similar on the bottom behind the flywheel? or do i need mark it some how?
i bought a flywheel puller so that should be ok, is the nut on the flywheel right hand thread? i just dont want to kill it with the impact gun by turning it the wrong way.

looking at the water pump shaft, is this just a push fit item through the two bearings and the central sprocket? probably slide out easy enough when i release the tensioner?

lots of questions i know, plus ill listen to any tips you guys have. plus if anyone wants a few pictures of any part let me know and ill take them while i do it.

thanks

 

[Eurofreak]

1. You can do the work with the engine in the frame no problem. I have never taken my engine out of the frame to work on the top end.
"as for timing, i have seen the marks on the main wheel plus the smaller marks on the head for timing the top end, is there something similar on the bottom behind the flywheel?"

2. the flywheel has a key -no need to mark it. It can only go on in one position. Just set the motor at top dead center. You will notice the outer marks on the flywheel do line up with the case. i will use a marker to mark the case where it lines up so i don't have to keep looking at the cam sprocket marks ( when installing the camchain)

"i bought a flywheel puller so that should be ok, is the nut on the flywheel right hand thread? i just dont want to kill it with the impact gun by turning it the wrong way."

3. I think the nut is normally threaded- If you're nervous about it put the bike in gear, hold the rr tire, and use a socket and wrench to remove the flywheel nut. Don't think it's on that tight.
i bought a flywheel puller so that should be ok, is the nut on the flywheel right hand thread? i just dont want to kill it with the impact gun by turning it the wrong way.

"looking at the water pump shaft, is this just a push fit item through the two bearings and the central sprocket? probably slide out easy enough when i release the tensioner?"
4. You are correct- remove the water pump impeller nut, then the impeller comes right off the shaft. Then remove the bolt holding on the cam sprocket. The shaft come right out.

I have an'04 service manual- think it's very close. PM me w/your email address if you want me to email it to you.
Good luck

 

[tadgh]

I have an'04 service manual- think it's very close. PM me w/your email address if you want me to email it to you.
Good luck

thanks for the offer, i have gotten a manual for this model 2007 so i am good. the manual isnt very detailed but its a good reference

 

[tadgh]

work so far

i decided to take out the motor as i wasnt comfortable doing this work without full access to the engine. as you can see the bike is an absolute disgrace ..i really ought to have cleaned it first . anyhow with a bit of jiggling it comes out, i will lift the subframe though to put it back in, as its a tight squeeze on your own.

i had drained the oil so i took off the generator cover, set it at tdc (not sure if i needed to as i am changing the piston too, so i could do it afterwards anyhow) the bolt on the flywheel (normal handed thread) came off no problem with an impact gun, you could hold the flywheel in your hand. i then used a puller from husky sport to pull off the flywheel, and it popped off very easily.

some marks on the rivets of the flywheel where the coil loosened one day and was rubbing on the inside of it. (note to future buyers of this bike.. dont worry about it )

I then took off the tensioner, its about half way out (120hours) the guides on the cam chain look fine. The next part was to remove the water pump shaft which threads though a bearing then the main timing spocket and finally an internal bearing. This just pushed out simply and i was able to take the sprocket out easily. the timing spocket has 3 white marks with punches on them, double punched lines up with a mark on the inside of the head for tdc and the two other ones are where you mesh the cam shafts into for intake and exhaust

the old chain then dropped out easily, in comparison to the new chain (old is on top) its only about 5mm longer than the new one, the new one seems laterally a lot stiffer though.

new piston from wossner

top of the head, i took this because the cam shaft retainers seem to have numbers on them for the place to put them in (1 to 4)

ok well i shall continue with this, taking the cams off, head and old piston the rebuild it back together in time for sunday for a hare and hound race.

one question for those more knowledgeable than me.

the lower sprocket coming directly off the crank is held in place with the small key on the shaft, however there seems to be huge play on the sprocket unless it is pulled all the way out on the shaft. does this happen when the engine in rotating or should it be a tight fit with no play? the picture isnt great but i am sure anyone who has done this probably knows.

 

[tadgh]

piston removal

after removing the cams etc to get to the bolts underneath (the bearings etc on the cams all seem good) i started on the removal of the head.

it all popped off easy enough without too much drama, seems like alot of carbon on the valves? or is this normal? should i soak it in something to remove it or what is usually done here?

removed the cylinder then and could see this piston also had the same build up on it, once again i am not terribly sure what thats an indication of? rich mixture?

the cylinder has no marks on it what so ever except a slight cross hatch pattern, and maybe a little glazed. i dont have a hone, is there a need to hone this or is it possible to lightly sand this off myself?

so thats the story so far. i'd appreciate if any one can cast some light on some of the queries i have. also where the big end bearing seems to have side to side movement but nothing up or down, i take it thats usual

 

[Eurofreak]

That is a fair amount of carbon buildup. It can be removed with a 3M scotchbrite scouring pad ( the hard industrial plastic type) and a cleaner used for carbon buildup- a fuel additive such as Seafoam.
The cylinder glazing should also be removed using the scotchbrite type pad.
The carbon could be from your crank breather tube that evnts to the air filter. If the bike has been on it's side a bit. Did your plug look like that too?

 

[tadgh]

That is a fair amount of carbon buildup. It can be removed with a 3M scotchbrite scouring pad ( the hard industrial plastic type) and a cleaner used for carbon buildup- a fuel additive such as Seafoam.
The cylinder glazing should also be removed using the scotchbrite type pad.
The carbon could be from your crank breather tube that evnts to the air filter. If the bike has been on it's side a bit. Did your plug look like that too?

well i cleaned it down last night, with some engine degreaser and it pretty much came right off. also rubbed down the cylinder and it seems fine.

the plug top has an almost perfect even brown colour so looks to be fine, i am going with the breather theory you have as being the culprit.

anyhow i refitted the new piston ,(is there an easy way to put in the circlips as it was very hard to do) and slid on the cylinder all went well.

I turned the piston then to tdc in the cylinder to see where it was, and on the crank/flywheel is seems like the locating notch for the flywheel is perfectly at 12 o'clock.
am i right in saying then if i put the top end on and set the central sprocket to the two marks lined up with the head, that i have the top and bottom timed correctly.

thanks for the help so far btw

 

[tadgh]

job done

ok finished the rebuild, just have to refit it into the frame.

so one remaining question having changed the piston, rings, wrist pin, timing chain and gaskets; what way should i break it in?

ride it hard or take it easy? i am thinking seeing as its the top end maybe i should ride it hard.

comments anyone?

 

[Eurofreak]

Yes, the flywheel notch is at almost 12 noon. Warm the motor up, then I broke my rings and piston in by accelerating and then decelerating hard for short bursts in 1st and 2nd gear. Did this for 10 minutes or so and then allowed to cool off. Repeat a couple of times, then use the higher gears and again do the hard on hard off throttle- just ride aggressively but don't lug the motor or do hillclimbs, etc. After you have about an hour on it, let it cool off then ride normally. This was my dealers suggestions and it has worked well for the various four strokes I've had.
Have fun!
I'm about to replace my bent exhaust valves and hopefully fire it up tomorrow.

 

[tadgh]

final story

well i heated it up for about 10 minutes and let it cool down, then later i ran it around the block.
took it to the hare and hound and razzed it around for 3 hours and it all seemed ok.
no major difference in the power etc so it probably shows that the chain and piston (even though with high hours) were still pretty good. the only major change was it was much easier starting.
also it is still as noisy, imo, as ever. so it must be the husky trait. the cams were fine, cam bearings fine,valves fine and new piston and new timing chain. still sounds rattly

thanks for the help eurofreak, much appreciated. anyone attempting this now i should be able to give them some advice if they need it

 

[dfeckel]

Mine is all rattly, too. Sorry to hear that the timing chain didn't fix it. I only seem to notice it around idle speeds--anything beyond that, it sounds great, and runs strong. Hmmm...

 

[Phoenix]

My 510 is rattly too. At about 3000 miles I replaced the cam chain too with the same outcome. It still rattles. I did find that the drive chain had rubbed through the chain slider and was slapping the swingarm, making some of the noise. I felt a little stupid after the discovery. lol I replaced that slider and eventually moved to a different sprocket setup to try and get the chain a little farther from the swingarm. Nevertheless, I have noticed that the engine itself is still very noisy. It comes as somewhat of a relief to hear that two others have the same problem.

 

[Eurofreak]

Glad it runs Tadgh-glad to help. I'm putting mine back together tonight as well. I hope to go to the Baby Burr 2-day dualsport on Ohio with it. If not, my two smoke is ready to take it's place.
How did you do in the hare and hounds? How is the race formatted? We have hare scrambles- two hours for the winner, 2=21/2 hrs for everyone else. Run laps over a 6-10 mile loop, all off road.

 

[tadgh]

yeah the h&h format is all offroad, it was a 12 minute loop i think for 2 hours 45 minutes. It was a pretty good event, I think I might have got 10th or so in the B's. We dont have different engine sizes or age groups here, it is A, B or C regardless of age of bike.

I think I was lapped 3 times by Gordon Clarke one of the WEC riders for TM

heres a pic one of the trackside amateur photographers got of me.

edit to say: one of the reasons i have always liked the carbed te is that i can do 3.5 hours on this bike on a full tank and no need to pit for fuel, which is always worth a few places at the end. I am reluctant of the FI because of this

 

[Eurofreak]

What type of terrain? I see the grass track. In northeastern US we have conditions ranging from clay, short steep hills to rocks and larger hills or low mountains. We may have grass tracks or not depending on the race promoter.