TE 511 Race Map Set 3 help

[jasonmt]

PCV - Try this link, its an extra $20 for the 511/449

https://www.motomummy.com/dynojet-powercommanders/dynojet-powercommander-v-dual-sport/dirt/

And I can confirm that I have bought a PCV for a TE630, a TE449 and (2X) Autotune modules from them - they were more than happy to ship via USPS to me in Canada at a very reasonable price and I would not hesitate to order from them.

 

[tjb45]

Update - Checked for air leaks and all clamps were tight.

Did a TPS reset, and adjusted the air bypass screw. I wound it all the way back and counted about 5 1/2 turns. Seemed a lot...
Turned it 2 1/4 out and the bike was very hard to start and wouldn't idle. Kept winding out, about 4 turns the bike would idle, but flameout when cracking the throttle.
Ended up with it about 5 3/4 turns out, and the bike starts and idles well, no flameouts when cracking the throttle, and also seems good in the bush.

Is this odd to need the bypass screw so far out?
I also still have the dead throttle problem, but getting used to expecting it now.

 

[Dangermouse449]

It would seem to me that there are a number of bikes (A handful/20/50/1000 who knows) that the FBW motor arrangement doesn't function as intended.
Also, that when they don't, the 2nd tps system doesn't log a 'fail' on the dash as might be expected with the ecu monitoring feedback.
Clearly it isn't every bike, but my own bike, motosportz bike & many other people report this 'dead throttle' issue.

That is - Turning the manual throttle & getting no, or a least minimal throttle increase.

The only thing between the incoming air needed for revs to increase & the inlet valves is the FWB butterfly setup when you have the manual throttle open.
I don't know why it does not log as 'fail', I imagine fault logging for it has been disabled, or set up for just open circuit testing....who knows?

I do know that with the butterfly removed from the shaft, and any slight fueling changes needed, the motor driving the shaft can do whatever it wants without affecting the riding of the bike.

 

[Teambowles]

Update - Checked for air leaks and all clamps were tight.

Did a TPS reset, and adjusted the air bypass screw. I wound it all the way back and counted about 5 1/2 turns. Seemed a lot...
Turned it 2 1/4 out and the bike was very hard to start and wouldn't idle. Kept winding out, about 4 turns the bike would idle, but flameout when cracking the throttle.
Ended up with it about 5 3/4 turns out, and the bike starts and idles well, no flameouts when cracking the throttle, and also seems good in the bush.

Is this odd to need the bypass screw so far out?
I also still have the dead throttle problem, but getting used to expecting it now.

My 449 was 5 1/4 turns out. My 511 was stalling so I matched the 511 to 449 and now have no issues with stalling. 449 always ran great 511 stalled occasionally so matching them made sense and worked for me.

 

[Tinken]

The engines are designed to idle between 1850 and 1950rpm, although the maps may be too lean until closer to 2100 rpm which causes the flame-outs. On the Husky service tool I am able to set -3 to +3 fuel settings, but most of the bikes are already set to the richest setting and still having the lean issues.

Sometimes I really wonder if some of the dealers really know what they are doing when it comes to flashing the ecu's? Many times the ecu's do not take the maps, but I am sure the dealers say they flashed the ecu anyway so they can charge their fee. The only way to be sure is to check the ecu mapping with the hst. I hate to turn away customers, but I am brutally honest.

The 2011 ecu's are the worst as they contain map set #1 (modes I&II). 2012-2014 come with map set #2 which is much improved over #1, but not as enriched up as #3, nor does it have the ignition timings. Even #3 is only meant to work with exhaust systems up to the TC or entry level Akro race exhausts (Husqvarna Special Parts system), not anything FMF (full or slip on) nor Akro evo1 systems. Installing a resonator is a huge improvement for flame-outs for this engine due to the increased back pressure at low rpms.

 

[HusqRacr]

As for gas, remember that I'm in Cali, and can only get the 15% garbage.

I've done the DIY TPS resets. Both the disconnection of the battery. And the full DIY reset (mine is a 13 and hence, no key, so the jury is still out on whether it is even possible to DIY). However, after the last full TPS reset, it does seem to be running a little better.


It is quickly becoming my belief, however, that Map #3 is not suitable to the TE 511. The people who have the best success with it seem to mostly be on TE 449s. The OP and myself both have 511s, whereas yours is a 449. One exception would be Kelly's threads about Map #3 on his bike. Pretty sure its a 511. But, he's still running the JD Tuner even after having it flashed with #3. I just picked up a used JD Tuner and am in the process of installing it. But I'm also watching the Butterfly Valve Removal thread with great anticipation of some real world results.

For what it's worth, my 12' TE511 has the Map 3 (akro) and FMF and runs like a raped ape. 3 Turns out on air screw and TPS set at 3-4%. I have a Bazazz and JD tuner at my disposal but it runs so dang good, I' don't want to mess with it- ZERO flameouts. I did just preform the butterfly removal and it seems even more responsive but havent ridden it yet. Maybe my bike was assembled on payday..

 

[Tinken]

It's been awhile since I fooled with a Bazazz, we had them here, but the looms were too heavy for racing purposes. I was going to say if you had access to a pcv and not a HST (not sure if it's the same with Baz), you can set the TPS voltage as it will display in the TPS calibration window. If your starting TPS voltage is off, then the ecu will not pick up the starting point on the oem ecu in the right location which would certainly cause a lean starting condition.

 

[Dangermouse449]

The engines are designed to idle between 1850 and 1950rpm, although the maps may be too lean until closer to 2100 rpm which causes the flame-outs. On the Husky service tool I am able to set -3 to +3 fuel settings, but most of the bikes are already set to the richest setting and still having the lean issues.

Sometimes I really wonder if some of the dealers really know what they are doing when it comes to flashing the ecu's? Many times the ecu's do not take the maps, but I am sure the dealers say they flashed the ecu anyway so they can charge their fee. The only way to be sure is to check the ecu mapping with the hst. I hate to turn away customers, but I am brutally honest.

The 2011 ecu's are the worst as they contain map set #1 (modes I&II). 2012-2014 come with map set #2 which is much improved over #1, but not as enriched up as #3, nor does it have the ignition timings. Even #3 is only meant to work with exhaust systems up to the TC or entry level Akro race exhausts (Husqvarna Special Parts system), not anything FMF (full or slip on) nor Akro evo1 systems. Installing a resonator is a huge improvement for flame-outs for this engine due to the increased back pressure at low rpms.

Great info in this post for everyone, thanks for sharing.

 

[tjb45]

Thanks Guys, I believe "some" mapping change happened, as the popping through the exhaust is clearly new. Some of my riding mates commented that's its very annoying riding near me now..

Should I be concerned about this? Is it a "lean" condition when rolling off the throttle that is causing the popping?

 

[Tinken]

Should I be concerned about this? Is it a "lean" condition when rolling off the throttle that is causing the popping?

Not sure if you have the pcv on your 511 or oem ecu?

If pcv, this is the cure:
That's a lean condition caused by your map not being populated in the 0-10% high rpm area.
Here's a good example in the image below. You can see in the 0-10% area is filled with zeros, therefore when you let off the throttle at high rpm, the map is extremely lean. Try populating this area with numbers consistent with the rest of your map, smaller numbers at zero and larger as they get closer to populated areas. Less is more in this case, try smaller numbers and work your way up until the popping has diminished.

 

[tjb45]

Thanks Tinken, but I don't have a PCV on my bike.. Just the Standard Acro muffler, Map Set 3, Race Map II plug.

 

[Tinken]

You said the performance got worse after map 3 was loaded? I bet your TPS is slightly off and that is what is causing the issue. Unfortunately it is not something you can set yourself.

 

[tjb45]

Performance isn't worse, maybe a little snappier in the low rpm range after map 3 loaded. Just the popping and slight surging when cruising at 90kph.

 

[Tinken]

You can see what's wrong by looking at the pcv map, but we cannot adjust the OEM map like the pcv. Best thing we can do is zero the tps to your 0.5 or 1% position, shifting the map slightly.

 

[Motosportz]

In order of changes, bike ran better with each solution...

2011 TE511
factory jumper
gutted stock can
JD tuner (helped a ton before any other solutions were offered)
free flowing muffler
ZipTy reprogrammed Map3 (JD tuner still installed and still needed to richen map3)
Secondary BF removed

Bike runs better than ever.

Thoughts:
My bike ran pretty good stock, ran better with each mod. I find the JD very useful for me, great and EZ tune on the trail device. Many of my friends run them and it for sure makes their KTMs run better. Very nice to click a few buttons on the trail and see what works and what does not. This to me is the beauty of EFI. Very liberating to just push a few buttons and change your fuel mixtures.

Map 3 was very noticeable on my bike. Ran the JD to pass original signal and not add or subtract and found my bike was still lean. Use the JD on top of map3 to richen it slightly and it runs far better.

Removed secondary BF. For me on my bike it was a very noticeable improvement. Snappier, more power in the bottom and mid, much more consistent running, no dead throttle issues yet. Once again used JD to fine tune, actually went leaner on the mid and richer up top. Bike runs better than ever. More responsive, more consistent, better more predictable off throttle, less feeling it would stall, starts as good or better, more bottom and mid power.

My opinion only on my bike in my riding areas. Just hard cold facts of how MY bike runs, no speculation why or theories just honest reporting of facts from riding my bike. Good buddy with a KTM350 rode my bike and was stunned how well it ran. It is literally perfect right now. His comments about the motor was powerful, beautiful, flawless.

 

[Dangermouse449]

You can see what's wrong by looking at the pcv map, but we cannot adjust the OEM map like the pcv. Best thing we can do is zero the tps to your 0.5 or 1% position, shifting the map slightly.

tjb45 - That is what worked for my non-piggyback installed bike. However my dealer is a far drive from me.



My method isn't recommended workshop procedure, but for my own circumstances, I deemed it worth a try.

Essentially, I warmed the engine to normal, cracked the lower TPS screw with it idling & moved the TPS VERY slightly until the idle smoothed out.
The same as you might adjust an old school mixture screw on a carb.

There is a real possibility to go too far & go out of the range of voltage reserved by the ecu for 'idle'. Very small movements are the key here.

As I said, it isn't recommended procedure & would be better done as Tinken describes as above by a dealer with a HST, then you can see the voltages.

(I am in the throws of making up a test lead set [to use to get a live reading] using after market original style plugs & I will post up how to buy the plugs & make them when I can.)

 

[tjb45]

Thanks Dangermouse, is the "lower TPS screw" the stop grub screw shown on the left lower side with a dab of yellow paint in the below photo?

 

[Dangermouse449]

No, that is a set screw for the fast idle arm that goes to the fbw cam above.
(I tried ages ago to adjust that in & out to stop hanging idle but with no success)

The head of primary set screw is hidden behind my thumb in this shot.
The threaded end can be seen just above the lower cable, near the yellow screw.
If you do adjust this plate, it moves in relation to the stationary tps. The sensor will need to be physically reset to the correct voltage to maintain idle mixture.
Whether this is by a dealer or 'best reckoning' is up to you, but as mentioned, there is only a small window of allowable voltages for correct idle.

Not yet sure of this systems upper range, most others from about 0.45 up to near 0.6v before moving into the light throttle maps.

 

[Dangermouse449]

Update.
After obtaining a test lead set from tpstool.com my own bike responded best to a primary TPS setting of 0.75v.
Most of the other bikes I've had feedback on were at or below 0.6V as deliverd.
We've found from original BMW engineer setting docs that the maps were based around 0.7 V as the base setting point (and the reason most are lean around idle)

 

[donjohnson]

Just adding my readings, mines set at 0.75, pretty sure it's as it came from the factory. Runs well at idle.