Suspension Setup recommendations.

[RailwayRog]

Alright I figured it out on my own, I need a heavier spring.

 

[JasonfromMN]

Here are the New Base Valves that fix the 45 Marzocchi and Twin Chamber 50 Marzocchi Forks. They get rid of the Harshness, which is common in these forks. I got them from Rider's Edge Suspension, Vernon BC. Ian McKill will also design you a new shim stack based on your weight and rider ability. Total valves and shim stack set me back $200. Plus he can calculate your spring rate, oil height and spring preload.
It turned my forks into a set that is up there with other forks. Best investment I ever did compared to just a revalve, that I waisted money on.

Look at the difference in the valve size, plus you go to 5 wt oil. Old Marzocchi valve is on right. New valve is on left.

Here is a picture of the valve installed with new shim stack on my Twin Chamber 50's

Your stock valve looks exactly like my 50 open Zokes valves. Very nice new ones and glad to know it made a nice difference fot you. Im my 50's their is another "mid" valve that also looks the same. Id bet it would make another difference replacing that with the new one too.

 

[JasonfromMN]

Attempted to set the rear sag (100mm rider) on my 2011 TE310, I'm 227lb geared up, well I screwed the collar practically all the way down and I'm at 115mm rider sag. Maybe I got a couple of turns left. I guess a need a heavier rear spring, if I need a heavier rear spring I assume I need heavier front springs as well? I haven't even attempted to try to set the front sag. Whats the best way to figure out the rate for front and rear springs? Or I'm I doing something wrong?
I just want to get the suspension in the ball park and that's it.


13863[/ATTACH]

I would bet you will need heavier fork springs as well. Do the same measurments with the forks as you did with the shock. youll need to get the proper rider sag without having too little static sag. Some changes in preload will probably be in order along with a spring change.

 

[dartyppyt]

Jason,

You just do the compression valve, then Ian sets you up with a new shim stack for it. Then on your mid or rebound, you get a shim stack set up for that as well. The springs are set due to rider weight and where you want your sag.

 

[JasonfromMN]

Ok, some how my numbers were way off. After racing the Enduro last weekend the balance felt way off. So this weekend went back in the garage to recheck what they were. Somehow my rear was at around 127mm rider sag Not sure how that happened, or maybe because I had my kid help me

Now, after making sure my rear is set properly(with lots of tape measure education and the other kid taking pictures), my numbers are-

Rider sag- 104mm
Static- 34mm

Thats better! No wonder I was at 57mm static!!

The front is still around-

Rider- 52mm
Static- 32mm

From my understanding, this means my fork spring are too stiff, right? If so, how many sizes should I drop? I need to go find out stock springs KG now.

Based on this fork sag, I went to order softer springs from Race Tech. The stock is .45kg and I thought Id start with .42kg. Race Tech told me I had the right spring for my weight (.45kg) and should not soften up the fork springs. I told them my sag numbers and they kept refering to their chart which puts me at .45s. What do ya think? Doesn't real life sag numbers tell the real deal rather than their chart? What would you do? I ordered the .42s.

 

[Picklito]

Jason,
In my experience, Race Tech's spring recommendations have ALWAYS been on the stiff side. Your numbers indicate a stiff spring and it seems that's how you feel the bike is working. Try really hard to get your fronts tested, then go down from there. I'm hearing that these Zoke springs are not always as advertised.

 

[JasonfromMN]

Thanks for your input. These sag numbers are on the 11 TE model with the KYB. Still seems theirs been variances with race techs recomnendations?

 

[Vinduro]

Based on this fork sag, I went to order softer springs from Race Tech. The stock is .45kg and I thought Id start with .42kg. Race Tech told me I had the right spring for my weight (.45kg) and should not soften up the fork springs. I told them my sag numbers and they kept refering to their chart which puts me at .45s. What do ya think? Doesn't real life sag numbers tell the real deal rather than their chart? What would you do? I ordered the .42s.

You are looking for 40-42mm static and 75mm rider sag. Sag numbers do tell the tale. MX / SX bikes may need a bit less fork sag. But not 52mm rider sag.
Go to 102-103mm rider sag in rear. Your static will still be good.

 

[Clete]

I was replacing my reeds the night, and ended stripping the bike down to do some clean up. Got messing with shock compression adjuster to see where it was. I have never touched them since having it serviced. I was kinda surprised to find it two clicks from all the way in (to the +). I need to put it all back together and check the static and rider sag.

Two clicks in from max on the compression, does that seem extreme? Are there not like 30 positions on the clicker.

 

[JasonfromMN]

2 clicks in from the + stop is "harsher" or "slower" part or your range.

 

[JasonfromMN]

You are looking for 40-42mm static and 75mm rider sag. Sag numbers do tell the tale. MX / SX bikes may need a bit less fork sag. But not 52mm rider sag.
Go to 102-103mm rider sag in rear. Your static will still be good.

Well finally got around to testing new sag #'s.

-This is where I need to be-
Forks- 40- 42 mm static
75mm rider sag.
300mm travel.
Shock - 32mm static
105mm rider
296mm travel

-This is where I was at-
Rear
Rider sag- 104mm
Static- 34mm
Front(.45 kg)
Rider- 52mm
Static- 32mm

-This is where I am now-
Shock (no change except from piston to bladder)
Rider 104mm
Static 36mm
Forks(.42 kg and removed 2 face shims)
Rider 62mm
Static 41mm

Seems to me I need to go softer yet to .40 kg and add a little preload? I did a very short ride, impressions are that it feels very good but I did notice a little more fork dive. If I go to the .40 kg I'm afraid I'll get more fork dive but the rider numbers say I'm still too stiff?

 

[Vinduro]

Yes, Go to a .40. Recheck and see if you need more preload. Static sag should be in the area that it is currently. Rise your oil level to max. Be sure to be running a light fork oil. I use 5wt Maxima RFF. On the light side of a 5wt fork oil. OR go to PJ1 2.5wt.

 

[Vinduro]

You want the fork to dive some going into corners. Just not bottoming out when you do. You want the front and back to "SETTLE" into the corner so you can turn sharper.

 

[MattR]

Rear suspension static sag should be 11% of available travel (X .11 = static sag)
Rear suspension rider sag should be 34% of available travel (X .34 = rider sag)
Using these principles you can figure the correct sags for any bike and thus the correct springs without guessing and compromising.​

Dwight,

The 2008 and earlier bikes have shock travel longer by approx. 1" (25mm). Do you still recommend the same 11% static & 34% rider sag rules for these earlier bikes? Let me know what you think.

Here are the calculated sags:
On 2008 CR/WR125: Rear travel = 320mm
35mm static sag (11%), 109mm rider sag (34%)

On 2009+ CR/WR125: Rear travel = 296mm
32mm static sag (11%), 101mm rider sag (34%)

 

[john01]

Man my head hurts after just reading all 6 pages of this. This is over my head but I really appreciate you guys taking the time to help others out; great thread. Now can anybody guess as to what spings I need front and rear on my 08 CR125. I weigh in at 200lbs . I think I'm gonna contact the guys in Canada on their parts as long as they will install them. Thanks.

 

[dartyppyt]

Man my head hurts after just reading all 6 pages of this. This is over my head but I really appreciate you guys taking the time to help others out; great thread. Now can anybody guess as to what spings I need front and rear on my 08 CR125. I weigh in at 200lbs . I think I'm gonna contact the guys in Canada on their parts as long as they will install them. Thanks.

John,

Ian will install them @ Riders Edge. He will also do your preload on forks, valving and correct spring rate.

He's does shocks rear shocks as well and you are probably 5.6 ish on 08 125.

Best thing I ever did to get the Zokes to work like other top forks.

 

[john01]

Cool thanks. I think I'll give them a call on Monday since I'm waiting on my WB165 exhaust.

 

[Xcuvator]

I finally got the rest of my "stuff" and got my WR250 resto. with Ian's base valves finished. All I can say is those valves do what they were claimed to. The bike is a real pleasure to ride now.This is the third day that
I have been riding in Eastern OR. I originally planned to return last night, but the bike is so much fun.
More later.

Just keeping my fingers crossed, but I think I got the Zokes figured out. Dwight has been awesome and a huge help, period! I dropped my springs (6mm preload) and oil wt to 5 like he recommended. The only way I could get my 45's to bottom, was to lower my oil to 140mm (even with the 40 springs). I know, everyone says don't go under 130mm (But how do you get them to bottom). Then I went up 2 clicks like he recommended. Then my compression screws started leaking but I still was harsh on all the sharp, square edged bumps. This bike has always had a problem of deflecting off of stuff at low and high speeds, plus not turning good. My confidence dropped, because I was constantly wondering if the front end was going to kick out from under me. Surprised, that I haven't broke my collar bone yet. I was always on guard looking ahead to avoid stuff and then out of the blue, I would lose my front end.

My forks, when riding, are further down in the stroke, but it feels more balanced and planted. I too was concerned.

I have been keeping an eye on these valves to modernize the harsh issues for 45/50 Zokes. So, I decided to pull my forks completely apart. 3 out of 4 holes in the bottom of the base valves, had burrs in them (From factory machining), closing off the ports 1/4 of the way? Well, one burr was under one of the shims, from breaking loose. I guess my question? Why wasn't this caught, when the forks were revalved. I won't talk bad about anyone, because it could have just been an employee oversight. I did take pictures to back it up and is something to look for?

Last night my new valves got here and I measured the provided shims, and installed them in the new base valves. I also put new seals in my clickers. I was told by the new tuner, to go with a maximum oil level of 125mm/5 wt oil. The valves are huge compared to the Marzocchi ones. They look like Chicago sewer pipes (They have got to flow some oil, now!). He also gave me 5 more clicks of compression adjustment. I rode a couple times last night and adjusted the clickers till I bottomed. I bottomed with the new oil height. Then went up 2 clicks like Dwight suggested. These forks are totally plush, carve better in turns, seem to brake good, but guess what? No, initial harshness on the square edged stuff! Actually, they feel like my old Showas on my old RMZ 250. I still need to do some real, log, creek jumping stuff to fine tune the clickers.

I will do a better post, after some more testing. Also, I still need to go up on the rear spring since I get the sag results but way too much preload, to get there. Now I am getting suspender poor, cause I have to do the Wr 125 yet.

Just a note: I did a good fork alignment thread under General, Tinker Tips. One issue I was having, long ago. The forks would never align properly with the bounce, brake and compress method. I seem to be getting different alignments. So, this is a way I don't have any stiction issues and second guess. This helps out alot in initial, mid and full strokes.

 

[dartyppyt]

Awesome! Glad they worked out good, plus you did it yourself!

 

[JasonfromMN]

Yes, Go to a .40. Recheck and see if you need more preload. Static sag should be in the area that it is currently. Rise your oil level to max. Be sure to be running a light fork oil. I use 5wt Maxima RFF. On the light side of a 5wt fork oil. OR go to PJ1 2.5wt.

I rechecked my sag numbers with all my gear on, I think im supposed to do that with all gear on and the last numbers on the forks were without moto gear.

With the addition of ride gear-

fork rider sag 68mm
fork static sag still 41mm.

Ive had 2 good rides with these new springs.(.42) My impressions are thats its much better. I did bottom lightly on a couple jumps that are the biggest id do.

Is 68mm close enough considering the bottoming or should I still go to the .40kg? The bottoming happened with stock recomendations on clickers.

Thanks for all your help.