SM or TE, that is the question

[XR750]

Greetings from a noob. In '06, after 12 years w/o a motorcycle, I bought a Buell CityX to replace the Sportster I had previously. The Buell was fun, but seemed like a bad compromise, i.e the sports bike guys are too young/fast/reckless, and the cruisers look at you like you're retarded for wearing a helmet and jacket. Anyhow, I sold the Buell this fall and have been mulling the many options for a replacement. I envision my riding to be 10 mile (ea. way) work commutes and exploring fire roads, two-track and ORV trails. At 50 y/o, and never having done much off-road riding, I don't see technical single track as a good idea. I've spent a lot of time on the adv site, but a big KTM or BMW are just too much bike for this thinly built guy, so I'm leaning towards the SM610. So, the questions are:
What is the difference in suspension and road manners between an SM and a TE?
How is the SM as a dual purpose weapon, given my intended usage?
What tires would be best?
Can you put some bags on and carry gear for a long-weekend camping trip?

Thanks in advance for any input.

 

[WoodsChick]

Welcome, XR750

Your post made me laugh

You've come to the right place, and I'll answer your post with a much more in-depth answer as soon as I get off work. In the meantime, do a search of my posts and you will find many photos of a dualsported SM610 with knobbies and small bags.

Happy searching!


WoodsChick

 

[Flying Trash Can]

The SM 610 is excellent on the asphalt and OK in the dirt.

The TE 610 is excellent in the dirt and still pretty good on the street.


you can pack some gear on either one and go camping but they are not pack mules like a KLR (thank God)

That's the best answer I can give you.

good luck.

FTC

 

[Joliet]

One option would be buy a used DRZ for three grand and ride it for a season. Try different kinds of rides and see what you like. You may find that you like single track stuff, or maybe the dirt just isn't for you. Then you can unload the DRZ for close to what you paid for it and get the correct machine for your particular interest. Trust me, you will know at the end of that first riding season what kind of riding you like and what brand, model, and size of bike(s) you want. Ken

 

[WoodsChick]

I'll take your questions one by one and do my best to answer them.

What is the difference in suspension and road manners between an SM and a TE?

According to Les at LTR, my SM610 was pretty much set up from the factory for someone weighing about 200lbs. It is my understanding that the TE isn't much different as far as stiffness goes. The suspension on an SM that's set up well for the street is going to be pretty harsh in the dirt. However the road manners of the SM will be much better. Also, if you plan on doing any canyon carving or semi-aggressive street riding, you'll be wishing you had the SM's monster front brake. It is really easy to outride a regular dirtbike brake on the street. That being said, I find that I can only go so fast in the dirt what with the limited clearance of my lowered SM610 combined with the streety suspension. Truth to tell, though, I have no business hustling a +300lb bike through the trails anyway, so it's ok by me. I would rather be limited by suspension in the dirt than be limited by braking on the street, but that's just me

How is the SM as a dual purpose weapon, given my intended usage?

Sounds like you would be using your bike much in the same manner as I am. I am an oft-injured 45-year-old that cannot afford to take another hit. Yeah, I still ride the dirtbikes on regular trails, but I find I'm really enjoying the dualsport side of things lately...especially since I got my 610! I've ridden it on trails, across the desert, through creeks, through snow, up gnarly hills and, well, pretty much all over. I am extremely pleased with my decision to go with the SM. I bought it with the sole intention of using it as a long-distance dualsport adventure-ish type bike and it has not disappointed me at all. I didn't really plan on taking it on actual trails in the national forests, but it's such a capable bike that I was really curious as to how it would do. It did great! It'll kick my ass big-time if I try to make any serious time on it, but that's not what it's for.


What tires would be best?

My first off-road foray was on a set of Pirelli MT60's. They worked great for non-muddy dirt, wet rocks, creek crossings, not-too-deep sand and totally kicked ass on wet pavement. I found myself having trouble in mud and snow, though, so my next set of tires was going to have to be a bit more aggressive. I settled on a Metzeler Karoo Traveler for the rear (DOT knobby much like a Conti TKC-80) but was having a real problem finding anything agressive for the front. On a bike with as much power as the 610 puts down, I didn't want a wimpy tire on the front that was just going to get pushed around by the rear. I ultimately ended up going with a rear Pirelli MT-21 DOT knobby for the front in a 120/90-17 size. It was the closest I could find to the stock 120/70-17 size. It looks funny, and I thoroughly expected it to feel weird and not like it, but it works amazingly well! It provides me with forward motion in the nasty stuff and doesn't turn weird or anything. I fully expected my steering to be maddeningly slow, but it hardly feels any different than the Mt60's. It holds an edge better, though. The knobbies ride a bit..."lumpy"...on the street, and the front is a bit more slidey than the rear, but I only use them when I plan on being mostly in the dirt. They howl like the devil on pavement, too. The front seems to be wearing really well, but the rear is getting a bit funky...surprise, surprise


Can you put some bags on and carry gear for a long-weekend camping trip?

Yes. I use doggy panniers for bags, and they seem to be working great. I used to use a similar set for my plated KTM 450 EXC. I also have a rack made by ProMotoBillet. Motosportz makes a beautiful rack for the 610, but I went with the PMB rack because I needed pannier protectors, as I will eventually put bags on the rack. I've gone on a 1-night camping trip so far on the 610 and it held everything I needed. I carry a 1gal gas can on the rack when in remote places like Nevada and it works great. Another option for bags is the GiantLoop bag made by a really nice guy in Oregon. It bolts directly to the rear fender and side number plates and is a good option for the more aggressive dirt rider.

Here is my SM610 loaded for a 250-mile ride. Note the 5gal IMS tank...

Hope that answers your questions.



WoodsChick

 

[Muddy Waters]

Woods; that ^^^^^^should be the model for how to answer a question … 10 points

Yeah I would say your answer lays somewhere between WoodsChick (SM converted to a TEplus…)
and mcinfantry (TE to a military SM with bags and such …)

all I can say after riding my neighbors bike is skip the DRZ,
my neighbor (he‘s about your age ), after riding my 610SM second that emotion…
To me it seems like going the Woods way (big fat 17” knobbies on the SM) is a lot cheaper than having to buy 17’ rims and tires plus the big 320 brembo brake for the TE
but at the end I guess it all have to do with how much dirt do you like in your cornflakes…

Good luck with your choice

 

[Fast1]

You now have range with that 5 gl tank and even a small support tank on the rack.

I would think the Motorsportz rear rack and the GiantLoop bag would provide a great set up for DS type riding with overnights.

Can you offer some perspective on how the SM is with the MT60's on graded dirt and fire roads? How does it compare to an equally weighted bike with knobs?

Do you make suspension adjustments for strictly pavement use in comparison to dirt use? Does the SM suspension offer allot of flexibility/adjustment for ride conditions and luggage?

I'm tagging on along with this thead since I also have an interest in the SM610 for longer distance DS rides, including some pavement use, while keeping the TE510 for more difficult dirt use.

Do you feel the SM is capable of conquering the CDT or TAT?

 

[glangston]

If you're mechanical and can afford the extra parts, just get the kit to motard the TE.

I've thought about it...

 

[WoodsChick]

Woods; that ^^^^^^should be the model for how to answer a question … 10 points

Yeah I would say your answer lays somewhere between WoodsChick (SM converted to a TEplus…)
and mcinfantry (TE to a military SM with bags and such …)

all I can say after riding my neighbors bike is skip the DRZ,
my neighbor (he‘s about your age ), after riding my 610SM second that emotion…
To me it seems like going the Woods way (big fat 17” knobbies on the SM) is a lot cheaper than having to buy 17’ rims and tires plus the big 320 brembo brake for the TE
but at the end I guess it all have to do with how much dirt do you like in your cornflakes…

Good luck with your choice

Thanks, MW.

For me, I chose the SM because I wasn't planning on riding anything super-gnarly. I've got dirtbikes for that stuff. Well, that and the fact that I got all tingly inside and hearts started to float above my head when I saw the SM's front brake up close and in person However, I've come to realize that the SM is capable of doing far more than I had originally envisioned in the beginning. Also, it isn't the fact that I don't have the dirtwheels and dirt suspension of the TE that's keeping me from riding it in the super-nasty...it's the fact that I'm 5'1" and don't really want to ride a +300lb bike in the super-nasty...period! It's not like I'm limited in where I can go because it's an SM and not a TE. It's the sheer weight of the 610 (TE and SM) that keeps me in a dualsport sort of mind. Also, as I've stated before, I was way more willing to compromise in the dirt than I was on the street. There is simply no replacement for a big ol' nasty front brake on the street. I swear, it's my favorite thing about the bike


WoodsChick

 

[Coffee]

...There is simply no replacement for a big ol' nasty front brake on the street. I swear, it's my favorite thing about the bike


StoppieChick

Fixed it for you

 

[XR750]

I would rather be limited by suspension in the dirt than be limited by braking on the street, but that's just me
WoodsChick

Is the SM sprung stiffer that the TE to prevent dive when braking? Or is it strictly damping/rebound characteristics?

 

[rajobigguy]

Is the SM sprung stiffer that the TE to prevent dive when braking? Or is it strictly damping/rebound characteristics?

Springs are shorter and stiffer on the SM. Please keep in mind that Woods Chick is a exceptional rider and just because she can take almost anything with two wheels over a AA enduro course dosen't mean the rest of us mere mortals can. The TE is quite at home on the street or hwy. and a much better choice for aggressive (I know that word is somewhat subjective) trail riding.

 

[WoodsChick]

You now have range with that 5 gl tank and even a small support tank on the rack.

I would think the Motorsportz rear rack and the GiantLoop bag would provide a great set up for DS type riding with overnights.

Can you offer some perspective on how the SM is with the MT60's on graded dirt and fire roads? How does it compare to an equally weighted bike with knobs?

Do you make suspension adjustments for strictly pavement use in comparison to dirt use? Does the SM suspension offer allot of flexibility/adjustment for ride conditions and luggage?

I'm tagging on along with this thead since I also have an interest in the SM610 for longer distance DS rides, including some pavement use, while keeping the TE510 for more difficult dirt use.
Do you feel the SM is capable of conquering the CDT or TAT?

Eggzackly! This is how I use my bike. I've got the plated 450 for more trail-oriented dualsport rides and general dirtriding, and I use the 610 for everything else. I don't think I'd want it to be my only bike, but if I was forced to choose only 1 bike out of my garage to keep for the forseeable future, it would be the SM610...no doubt about it.
And now to your questions...

Can you offer some perspective on how the SM is with the MT60's on graded dirt and fire roads? How does it compare to an equally weighted bike with knobs?

The MT60's are smooth and quiet and stick like glue. They are perfect for gravel roads, graded dirt roads and light dualsporting. They aren't great in mud or snow, but they stick like a trials tire in rocks. They also disappear rather quickly if used on pavement. Too bad, because I really like them! They might be my rain commuters Coming from a dirt background, I feel much more confident on knobbies. Yeah, they aren't as smooth or sticky, but on a dirt road with any sort of traction, I prefer the knobbies. It ain't like my rear knobby is anything special, though. It's just a knobby made for the bigger bikes like the Adventures and such. It makes a huge difference off-road, though, as compared to the street tires and/or the MT60's.

Do you make suspension adjustments for strictly pavement use in comparison to dirt use?

Well, normally I would, as SM suspension is usually set up stiff for very aggressive street riding...especially the SM610. I had my suspension re-valved and re-sprung for my weight, with the idea that I would need it to be compliant for off-road. I basically asked Les at LT Racing to do the impossible: make it work fairly well for mild offroad work, but leave it somewhere in the middle so that I have maximum adjustability with the clickers and can stiffen it up for riding on the street. I've mellowed out there, too, in the last few years so I don't exactly need it to be race-ready. It's been working fairly well for me. I certainly don't expect anyone to go the route I did, though. It's all a compromise.

Does the SM suspension offer allot of flexibility/adjustment for ride conditions and luggage?

I wouldn't say it offers a lot of flexibility/adjustment, but it has enough for me I did notice that I had to stiffen up the front after putting the 5gal tank on. Dang, that thing felt heavy! Once I put it on the street and the tank started to get closer to empty things were feeling pretty good.

Do you feel the SM is capable of conquering the CDT or TAT?

Absolutely. I've seen BMW F650's and big KTM Adventures doing that stuff. As far as I can tell, there isn't much technical stuff on the TAT, but I'm not sure about the CDT. It all comes down to what you're used to riding and what kind of terrain you're comfortable in. I've ridden my SM610 on regular singletrack trails and have had no problems. I wouldn't want to do it alone, and I wouldn't want to do it for miles on end across the US, but it can be done. I plan on doing the Oregon Back Country Discovery Route on the 610 some time, and I wouldn't hesitate to do the TAT on it, either.



WoodsChick

 

[WoodsChick]

Springs are shorter and stiffer on the SM. Please keep in mind that Woods Chick is a exceptional rider and just because she can take almost anything with two wheels over a AA enduro course dosen't mean the rest of us mere mortals can. The TE is quite at home on the street or hwy. and a much better choice for aggressive (I know that word is somewhat subjective) trail riding.

That is SO not true! The only thing exceptional about me is my sparkling personality and my modesty Seriously, though, I am slow and cautious these days and posess no innate ability or natural talent. Everything I can do I've had to bust my butt to learn. I just ride a lot, and I like to be adventurous and ride bikes where they aren't supposed to be ridden. That has more to do with not wanting to color inside the lines than it does being an exceptional rider I just like to ride, street, dirt, dualsport and everything in between. It's all good. If you can't have fun on a motorcycle...any motorcyle on any terrain...well, then you aren't trying hard enough

You are absolutely right about the TE being at home on the street and being a much better bike for aggressive trail riding. And if that's what the OP wanted to do with it, I'd certainly not hesitate to recommend one. He comes from a street background, wants to commute and do mild fireroads, two-track and trails, and doesn't think technical singletrack is a good idea at 50yo. Sounds exactly like what I'm doing with mine. Aaand he specifically asked about the SM610 as a dual purpose weapon...so there

One other point I'd like to make...again...that might be getting lost in all my long-winded posts...

I feel much safer on the street with a big front brake. Braking is paramount to safety in my mind. I've ridden a lot of street miles on plated dirtbikes, and I've always felt somewhat at a disadvantage with the dirt brake. Your mileage may vary, of course, but this is the stuff that's important to me.


WoodsChick

 

[rajobigguy]

That is SO not true! The only thing exceptional about me is my sparkling personality and my modesty Seriously, though, I am slow and cautious these days and posess no innate ability or natural talent. Everything I can do I've had to bust my butt to learn. I just ride a lot, and I like to be adventurous and ride bikes where they aren't supposed to be ridden. That has more to do with not wanting to color inside the lines than it does being an exceptional rider I just like to ride, street, dirt, dualsport and everything in between. It's all good. If you can't have fun on a motorcycle...any motorcyle on any terrain...well, then you aren't trying hard enough

You are absolutely right about the TE being at home on the street and being a much better bike for aggressive trail riding. And if that's what the OP wanted to do with it, I'd certainly not hesitate to recommend one. He comes from a street background, wants to commute and do mild fireroads, two-track and trails, and doesn't think technical singletrack is a good idea at 50yo. Sounds exactly like what I'm doing with mine. Aaand he specifically asked about the SM610 as a dual purpose weapon...so there

One other point I'd like to make...again...that might be getting lost in all my long-winded posts...

I feel much safer on the street with a big front brake. Braking is paramount to safety in my mind. I've ridden a lot of street miles on plated dirtbikes, and I've always felt somewhat at a disadvantage with the dirt brake. Your mileage may vary, of course, but this is the stuff that's important to me.


WoodsChick

Ok, going back to my corner now. Where is that smiley with the poor beaten up guy hanging his head in shame as he sluffs away.

 

[XR750]

Good front brakes are my friend

"I feel much safer on the street with a big front brake. Braking is paramount to safety in my mind."

You're for reading my mind on that one. I'd rather have great street brakes and lose some trail abilities when "Mr. or Ms. I'm busy talking/eating/drinking/flossing my teeth" decides to turn into your path or otherwise try to ruin the day.

So, an SM610 has jumped into the lead of the "what bike should I buy this spring".

On a related note, I briefly considered one of those orange bikes, specifically a 640 Adventure, but reliability and engine buzziness issues kept rearing an ugly head. I've never seen one in person, so please excuse what may be a dumb question to ask on a Husky site, but does anyone know what the purpose is of all the plastic shrounding around the engine? Does it act as a fairing?

 

[XR750]

I finally did it...just picked up a new 2011 SMS 630. The factory discount was too good to pass up, plus it was signed by Malcom Smith. Planning on doing the power up and have a question for those who have installed the FMF pipe that was intended for the RMZ 450. Did you have to cut the factory header pipe and/or the pipe that comes with the muffler? If the FMF pipe fits, that should mean that any brand of 2008 RMZ 450 pipe should fit, right?

 

[pvduke]

Signed by the GOAT!!!

 

[Coffee]

............

I left you some PMs in your inbox - in the upper right hand corner you should see a small red box with a number on the inside, something like this:

I also left you my phone number in case you need help.

 

[LawnDartMike]

Congrats on the new bike! If you are talking about the FMF that BiLL came up with - he has a muffler shop down the street do a little magic to make it fit so it is not a straight bolt on. I have it on my 630 and Bill and I are working on making a good looking heat shield for it.