Seized Engine: 2014 Te310r W/ 15 Hours

[MitchMan406]

That’s the part that hurts.

Completely self inflicted.

It’s from the battery post.

I dropped it into the box and couldn’t find it. I meant to go back and look for it and I forgot.
I assumed it fell out of the bike. Little did I know it fell and then ricocheted into the intake.

Big mistake.

So the question is what state is the head in: is it rebuildable.

Then the next question: what about the lower end?
It absorbed quite a blow when the screw got sandwiched between the head and piston.

For what happened, it’s in remarkable shape.

I’ll post some pics for you all to look as ASAP.

What a disaster...

 

[robertaccio]

FOD, "fodded" the engine wow that is why if we drop anything we need to find it and account for it at any expense (Aircraft Industry). Sorry for your misfortune.

 

[MitchMan406]

 

[MitchMan406]

***Edit to original post: This piston as well as the rings were measured and and were in new condition practically, due to the low time on the engine (approximately 10-15 hours).

Subsequently, the piston was cleaned and smoothed and polished and reinstalled along with the rings and wristpin.***

 

[Dirtdame]

That’s the part that hurts.

Completely self inflicted.

It’s from the battery post.

I recognized what it came from the instant I saw the photo shot of it.

 

[robertaccio]

Do as your Mech and heart desires but I would check the valve seats and faces and contour the sharp edges on the piston . I would not be against reassemble if no damage to valve or seats. I believe the fortunate thing to be that those screws are tin plated copper so they are relatively soft. Those valves and valve seats are very hard material. You may have been lucky in that respect that it wasn't a carbon steel cad plated screw/bolt

 

[Trenchcoat85]

If you haven't bent the rod (you haven't) you're sort of in luck. Those battery screws are zinc (or zinc plated) and are soft. I am assuming it did not make it into the combustion chamber (where didja find it?), but just lodged the intake valve open. Actually I am surprised it opened that much.

Heads are expensive. valves are rare and expensive.

here is my contrarian advice: make sure the valve stem is not too buggered up; lap the valve & seat, take any sharp burrs off the piston, head and cylinder.

run it.

keep your eyes open for a new top end in the meantime.

 

[Trenchcoat85]

gawd- that motor looks like it has 45 minutes on it. tops.

shit. looks like robert said basically what i said... but 2 hours before.

 

[MitchMan406]

Thanks, gentlemen.

That’s what I’ll do.

Yeah, it’s practically new.
It’s technically not even broken in.

I was being really easy on it putting around in the neighborhood and on the trail.

Found the bolt laying on top of the piston.
It’s shocking how well everything looked considering I tossed a grenade into the combustion chamber.

Learned a big lesson here...

 

[Trenchcoat85]

Opinion: That screw was not in the top end very long. It would've made a huge racket and gouged EVERYTHING up; and I would've expected to be pounded into the head. Also your engine would've still spun (more than likely). Hell, I don't think it was even jamming your valve open for too many revolutions.

I wonder if it could've dropped in to the combustion chamber when you were messing with the sprag.

I hope the valve seat and stem are good to go; I don't think anything else is going to stop you.

That lesson is a big deal. When I worked on spacecraft, inventory was taken every shift. Any missing hardware or tools, and work came to a stop NOW. The other lesson [not to spend too much money on parts until the diagnostics point you in that direction] is not as important.

edit: I gotta apologize to Robert again... when I first responded, it was to the last post on the previous page. I did not see the ~6 posts on this page- including Robert's same story about missing parts or even his recommendations given hours before I posted. When I finally did see the above posts (duh), I just skimmed 'em. It turns out all my suggestions were just echoes of what Robert wrote before.

 

[MitchMan406]

Can anyone recommend a specific valve compressor for this head?

The OEM tool is discontinued.

Thank you in advance.

 

[Trenchcoat85]

Well, there's the shadetree trick of filling the combustion chamber with rope, tdc, and striking the valve stem with a hammer. Supposedly, the keepers come off... but it sounds pretty shakey to me.

Wait- I don't think you need the rope. Hell, BDC would better; but on the bench is best.

I gotta imagine just about any valve compressor is gonna work. Head to Auto Zone or Canadian Tire depending on your location.

 

[R_Little]

I have a motor on my bench that had the same thing happen.

Guy dropped a nut into the airbox while servicing the filter, probably the same one!
He said the bike started idled then stalled locked up. It had a bent intake valve which I replaced.

I used a cheap Chinese small engine valve compressor.

I'd spray some WD40 in the exhaust? tract and see if it seals. I'd also take the springs out and see if the valve moves up and down clean and spins with no binding. If it seals and you can spin you can guess the valve is not bent and the seats are okay. look The seats over for damage.

I doubt you bent the rod. I presume the piston moves up and down normally?

Put it back together and ride it.

I need a piston for mine. I hope the valve guide is okay, It looks okay. I did not see any cracks.

 

[R_Little]

Ok, Heat did the trick.

Put the puller back on.
Applied some pressure.

Heated the hub for about 30-60 seconds and heard a pop.

Hub released from the tapered shaft.

The metal key stayed in place on the shaft and looks good.

Everything looks good until I found these plastic pieces around the shaft's key groove and in the key way on the hub itself:



View attachment 93658



Found these small pieces of plastic as well (batt. for scale):


View attachment 93659


Used kick lever to turn engine over engine half to a full kick--with the SPRAG and starter gear and starter OFF the bike.

Crankshaft stops rotating after a "clunk" sound from the interior of the cases.

It stops forward and backwards when I turn it over at the shaft with my hand.

I estimate the the crankshaft rotates about a half turn in either direction before it stops.

That green stuff looks like the bearing retaining compound I put on all the flywheels I install.
I write "USE HEAT" on the flywheel for this reason.

I always heat them to remove.

 

[MitchMan406]

Ok, good to know.

Well, it seems that I'm not the only dumb one in the universe.

Note to others: Keep the airbox free of screws, washers, or any debris that can work its way into the throttle body
--because it's virtually an unobstructed pathway into the intake valves/combustion chamber from the air box.
I meant to go back and find the screw but it ricocheted into the intake.

Please explain the valve-seating procedure with WD-40.

I have not torn into the valve and valve-seat issue as of yet.

Still waiting for a valve compressor to come in.

I understand the valve must turn in the valve guide.

But the sealing procedure is what I'm curious about if you or the other guys could elaborate.

 

[Trenchcoat85]

fill the intake valve with wd-40 on the backside, about a tablespoon. look for it coming through the combustion side. hell, test all 4.

with those gouges, yours is probably gonna leak. i'm hoping the lapping will take care of things.

I don't know how much modern valves rotate; but the stem must go smoothly through the guide the whole distance... maybe a bit more.

missing screw: with the throttle butterfly closed, you could've seen it fairly easy with a mirror and bright flashlight.

 

[MitchMan406]

***Edited***

Got it.

And astonishingly, the seats do not leak. ***EDIT***The intake valves did not leak because the deformed under tension from the spring and subsequently sealed. This is not good. The test should have been performed with the the valve stem keepers and spring removed***

I tested from the top side as directed first with the WD-40 straw angled in the back side of the valve face at the bottom of the spring. No pass through.

I tried different angles and such— no pass through.

Then I inverted the head and leveled the head so that the faces of the valves were flat.

I put penetrating oil around the face of the valves where it contacts the seat and left the oil to sit for several hours.

No loss of fluid. The same amount of fluid stayed along the seat—it didn’t migrate to the back side.

I think the valves seal properly.

Now the question remains if they’re bent.

I guess I’ll pull them just to check if they are free to rotate and run through the valve guide freely.

I think I’ve dodged some expensive bullets here.

 

[Huskynoobee]

The nice thing about short stroke motors. These things aren't so bad.

 

[wags]

what's that ?

 

[R_Little]

Well, the fact that they don't leak indicates that they are not bent either.

If the valves were bent then they would leak for sure.

Maybe you don't have to disassemble?

Maybe just turn the cam sprocket open the valves and try to clean a little of that head damage WITHOUT touching the sealing surface of the seats and slap it back together. Up to you!

BTW, i have reused a low hour head gasket on my 2010 TE250 7 years ago. I spayed coppercoat on it and it has been fine,