125-200cc RCI, Smart Performance, or Race Tech

[JRod4928]

Anyone have experience with these companies when doing a DIY revalve?

RCI and race tech seem to do a normal revalve, but Smart performance is the odd-ball. It sounds like they use a fork oil developed by themselves, and use engineering calculations to determine the optimum setup for you, as opposed to using trial-error like a lot of revalve companies - probably fluid dynamics calculations...it's intriguing, but I don't know about performance, some people like them. I would find it hard to 'calculate' an optimum suspension setting. Everyone's opinion is different. Their customer service is not good however.

Race tech I've read has old technology, but it's still better than stock. and RCI supposedly is great all around.

 

[Motosportz]

I put race tech gold valves in my 04 CR125 45mm zoke forks along with fancy progressive springs built by cannon racecraft / house of horsepower and am stunned how good these work. Before that the 45mm zokes have always been on my horrible list. Now they are some the best off road forks I have used.

 

[dukepilot]

Dave J at Smart Performance did the forks and shock on my 04 CR 125 with good results. He has a busy shop and frequently goes to the local tracks to help customers setup and adjust their suspension. I'll probably have him do the suspension on my other bikes at some point.

On the downside, Dave can be hard to get a hold of. On the upside, once you get in contact with him, he provides great support. I live not too far from his shop and was in no hurry to get my forks/shock back from him. If I did not live so close to his shop and needed my parts back fast, it is likely I would have been disappointed.

 

[JRod4928]

Dave J at Smart Performance did the forks and shock on my 04 CR 125 with good results. He has a busy shop and frequently goes to the local tracks to help customers setup and adjust their suspension. I'll probably have him do the suspension on my other bikes at some point.

On the downside, Dave can be hard to get a hold of. On the upside, once you get in contact with him, he provides great support. I live not too far from his shop and was in no hurry to get my forks/shock back from him. If I did not live so close to his shop and needed my parts back fast, it is likely I would have been disappointed.

I've heard a lot of that too from other people. They're probably lower on my list for that reason. I know I'm going to have questions, and I don't want to work with someone who I can't get ahold of.

 

[Kyle Tarry]

RaceTech's sales model historically has been selling valves. However, I don't see the valves as where the real value is. In my opinion, for most modern forks and most riders, the stock pistons function fine, it's the valving that significantly drives the "feel" of the bike. However, RaceTech also provides you with some pre-set shim stacks, allowing you to revalve your own suspenion via tables, even if you don't completely understand the nuances of valving. However, my understanding is that you only get one-time access to their shim database, which would limit your ability to make changes in the future.

I'm not very familiar with RCI, but their website shows them also pushing the aftermarket valve theory. I have trouble taking too seriously anyone who says that their valves make everything from KYB and Showa "completely obsolete," but I guess that is just the marketing talking.

All I know about SPI is what I have read on TT. Dave seems like a smart guy who knows about suspension he has a lot of ideas, the merit of which is very subjective, but some of them seem very valid/cool. If you go down the SPI road, I think you're buying into his whole philosophy, which could be good or bad.

I'm a big proponent of "use your local shop." As long as your local tuner knows what he is doing, he should be able to give you quality, face-to-face service, he rides where you ride, and any good tuner will change your valving until you get where you want. Out of all the guys I ride with and race with, some guys have stuff from the big national shops, but most guys have work done by good local shops, or by the smaller specialized outfits like LTR, ZipTy, WER, etc.

 

[JRod4928]

RaceTech's sales model historically has been selling valves. However, I don't see the valves as where the real value is. In my opinion, for most modern forks and most riders, the stock pistons function fine, it's the valving that significantly drives the "feel" of the bike. However, RaceTech also provides you with some pre-set shim stacks, allowing you to revalve your own suspenion via tables, even if you don't completely understand the nuances of valving. However, my understanding is that you only get one-time access to their shim database, which would limit your ability to make changes in the future.

I'm not very familiar with RCI, but their website shows them also pushing the aftermarket valve theory. I have trouble taking too seriously anyone who says that their valves make everything from KYB and Showa "completely obsolete," but I guess that is just the marketing talking.

All I know about SPI is what I have read on TT. Dave seems like a smart guy who knows about suspension he has a lot of ideas, the merit of which is very subjective, but some of them seem very valid/cool. If you go down the SPI road, I think you're buying into his whole philosophy, which could be good or bad.

I'm a big proponent of "use your local shop." As long as your local tuner knows what he is doing, he should be able to give you quality, face-to-face service, he rides where you ride, and any good tuner will change your valving until you get where you want. Out of all the guys I ride with and race with, some guys have stuff from the big national shops, but most guys have work done by good local shops, or by the smaller specialized outfits like LTR, ZipTy, WER, etc.

I agree with the local shop idea. I have a lot of options - there are about 5 shops in the area (30 minute drive) - FCR, PR2, Pro Action, RCI just to name a few. I don't know how many of them will give me 'customer support'. I havent done revalves before, it's the 2nd to last item on a 2 stroke bike that I can't do myself at the moment (1st being bottom end of an engine). So I definitely need a local shop.

I'm an engineer and I can get caught up in the whole 'engineering' approach to suspension mods like Smart Performance does - but I'm not really sure it is the ultimate option for suspension modifications in this case. I think I'll stick to more conventional approaches for a revalve unless I'm really sold on SPI's approach.

I like that race tech offers valving 'charts', so that I can change valving on my own for woods or MX.

 

[Kyle Tarry]

I'm an engineer too, but in the end what matters is the performance of the bike. I don't have a problem with SPIs ideas (at least, not as a whole, although some of the nuances I have read seem odd to me), but the issue is that I don't see him as the place I would go to for a simple revalve. If you want to dive in and redo the whole system, sure.

The RaceTech charts are a good feature for someone uncomfortable with valving. Like I said before, I think you only get limited access to those. Can someone who has used racetech clarify? Do you just print everything out so you can refer to it later?

You seemed really stuck on YZ forks in your other thread. If you're so enamored with the way those forks feel, considering that the forks on your CR are nearly the same inside, why not just put the stock YZ valving into your CR forks and see how that feels? It may not be the final step, but it sure seems like an easy thing to try, and the total cost is miniscule compared to buying a bunch of aftermarket pistons.

 

[JRod4928]

I'm an engineer too, but in the end what matters is the performance of the bike. I don't have a problem with SPIs ideas (at least, not as a whole, although some of the nuances I have read seem odd to me), but the issue is that I don't see him as the place I would go to for a simple revalve. If you want to dive in and redo the whole system, sure.

The RaceTech charts are a good feature for someone uncomfortable with valving. Like I said before, I think you only get limited access to those. Can someone who has used racetech clarify? Do you just print everything out so you can refer to it later?

You seemed really stuck on YZ forks in your other thread. If you're so enamored with the way those forks feel, considering that the forks on your CR are nearly the same inside, why not just put the stock YZ valving into your CR forks and see how that feels? It may not be the final step, but it sure seems like an easy thing to try, and the total cost is miniscule compared to buying a bunch of aftermarket pistons.

I agree with all of that, haha. When I first bought the Husky, I didn't expect the suspension to operate as good as the YZ. But it was important to me that I had the 48mm KYB twin chambers that Yamaha uses, so that I'd have the potential to revalve to something similar to the YZ, if not, better. The YZ wasn't revalved for my weight, it was simply resprung and had MX valving for a 120 pound rider.

You're right about the YZ forks. However, I'm not sure how to get ahold of stock YZ valves without buying an entire fork and stealing the internals from it, which isn't cheap, but I could re-sell them and just about break even. And then comes potential compatibility problems - which has been beaten to death in that other thread I started a few days ago. So it's a risk.

Plus, the more I read - the more I'm convinced that I need a woods specific revalve to get the best results and it'll probably end up better than the YZ I had. I've always wanted to learn fork and shock revalves, now's the time to take advantage of that opportunity.

 

[Motosportz]

RaceTech's sales model historically has been selling valves. However, I don't see the valves as where the real value is. In my opinion, for most modern forks and most riders, the stock pistons function fine, it's the valving that significantly drives the "feel" of the bike. However, RaceTech also provides you with some pre-set shim stacks, allowing you to revalve your own suspenion via tables, even if you don't completely understand the nuances of valving. However, my understanding is that you only get one-time access to their shim database, which would limit your ability to make changes in the future.

Race techs idea was to let the base valve (piston) flow more and control it more with the shim stack. This was the ticket in older designed forks. People still like them a lot in modern stuff but was designed when forks were not all that great. That said the husky forks seem to suffer from a piston that does not flow enough and tends to have hydraulic spikes on hard hits. I have always disliked the 45mm zokes because they have this mid stroke harshness. I had a nice fancy set of ohlins sitting here all revalved for me and ready to go if the gold valves did not work. But those would have taken a lot of fab to get on the bike so I thought i would try the gold valves. I am VERY impressed with the gold valves. Mid range harshness is completely gone and I love these forks now. Everyone who rides my bike comments how good the suspension is. The gold valves got the fork to valve right and the progressive springs (I know some don't like them or think they are old school) with the gold valves is magic.

As for the valving chart you go to there web site, poke in a number they give you with the purchase, fill out your info and it spits out a sheet. Give a middle target setting and valving both stiffer and softer so you do get a lot of options. I went with the recommended and did not go stiffer or softer and ended up being perfect for me. They seem to have this sorted really good at least in my case.

Also they give you all the shims for any of the valve stacks so if you find it is to soft or firm you can change it yourself.

I am not a big Racetech or gold valve fan just letting you know my experience with the 45mm zokes was nothing short of amazing. the only other racetech thing I have done is a gold valve int he shock of my 93 TC610 which also made a huge difference for the better.

All that said RT spring calculator always recommends spring rates i consider to soft.

As for the rear of this same bike (04 CR125 with 165 kit) I went to buddy at TBT suspension to do the shock, that revalve and a 5.4 spring are also magic.

None of this is really a recommendation just more of letting you know my limited experience with this stuff.

 

[JRod4928]

Got an awesome response from the guys at RCI. Check it out...

...

That bike does run a yamaha fork (which I do make parts for), but I do not make any parts nor do I have enough testing/r+d with the Husky's rear shock to honestly tell you that I can make it work super good on the first attempt.
What I would do is install Race Tech goldvalves in both ends to match.
That is what I would do if you were to send your suspension here to the shop.
I don't sell a "kit" so to say, but I do supply existing suspension shops with T6 valves, settings, and tech support.
For motocross, the T6 Valve does work better overall than a Goldvalve setup.
Our fork and shock piston is completely different, as is our valving system.
The T6 Valve setup is more progressive and faster responding than a Goldvalve, but both do work well.
That being said, given the bike and woods application, the Goldvalve system will actually work very very well.
You would be quite happy with how it works.
The T6 Valve ramps up harder and is more aggressive than a Goldvalve.
But the goldvalve is actually the king of the roost in the gnarley deep woods, because they are actually "lazy" in response due to their overly massive port design, which is actually a mega bonus in the woods.
What is a bit of a detriment in motocross is actually a good thing on a woods bike.
You want a woods bike to suck up bumps like a vacuum cleaner, and great bottoming resistance isn't a huge concern at all when you are just trying to survive lol.
I hope this helps you with your Husky.
Happy shim flipping!
Best regards,



Sounds like their valving is best suited for MX. And the email reinforces the racetech concept that was mentioned in a previous post in this thread - that the valving is controlled by the shims, not necessairly the ports in the valve itself.

It's interesting that he's basically recommending goldvalves instead of stuffing their own valves in my bike when they aren't sure how well it'll perform. Or even mixing/matching their RCI valves in the forks with goldvalves in the shock. They're not trying to force their product on you, which is nice.

 

[Motosportz]

Very cool.

 

[Motosportz]

BTW they (RaceTech) did not list my 45mm zokes and said they don't make one for it but they do as it is the same fork as the other 45mm forks they list.

 

[Xcuvator]

There is another option for custom valves and that would be Riders Edge in Vernon BC. Ian McKill makes Custom base valves for the Marzoccihi 45 and 50mm forks. I have them and his stack reccomendations in my Huskys, and I'm very happy with them.
http://www.ridersedgesuspension.com/index.html

 

[Motosportz]

There is another option for custom valves and that would be Riders Edge in Vernon BC. Ian McKill makes Custom base valves for the Marzoccihi 45 and 50mm forks. I have them in all four of my Huskys, and I'm very happy with them.
http://www.ridersedgesuspension.com/index.html

have heard real good things about them.

 

[Motosportz]

Here is a link to my 45mm racetech revavle...

http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/racetech-gold-valve-install-on-a-04-cr125.29324/

 

[kx3089]

You should give Jeff at FCR in Mckees Rocks a call.I don't have his valving in my bike(WER)But I use him to freshen things up and to ask him questions.His custmomer support is awesome.I accidentally call him at 6am so I hang up real quick.He calls me back around 10,he's on vacation and wants to make sure I don't have a problem.Great guy who always has time for you.

 

[Kyle Tarry]

You're right about the YZ forks. However, I'm not sure how to get ahold of stock YZ valves without buying an entire fork and stealing the internals from it, which isn't cheap, but I could re-sell them and just about break even. And then comes potential compatibility problems - which has been beaten to death in that other thread I started a few days ago. So it's a risk.

Stock 2011 YZ125 setup:

BV
16 - 32.12
30.12
28.12
26.12
24.12
22.12
20.12
18.12
16.25
plate
5 - 11.25
14.12
16.12
18.12
20.12
2 - 22.12


Mid
20.12 (4X)
18.12
16.12
14.12
12.15
11.3 (2X)
17.3 (2X)

But, if you want to ride woods, I see no reason to run an MX stack.

Can't say for sure, but I would be surprised if the pistons were drastically different.

 

[Kyle Tarry]

Race techs idea was to let the base valve (piston) flow more and control it more with the shim stack. This was the ticket in older designed forks. People still like them a lot in modern stuff but was designed when forks were not all that great.

Agreed.

I am about as far from knowledgeable about suspension as you can get, but my limited experience with the newer KYBs (my WR, buddy's TXC310, and a couple Yamahas) is that the valve ports, while not huge, are definitely not the flow limitations that they are on, for example, the Zoke 45s (stock ports on those things are TINY).

I think in some cases the RaceTechs might be subtly better in the woods. However, for most of us I think that a good shim modification is more than enough!

A big benefit of RaceTech is, if you buy their valves, you get access to their vast base of shim recommendations. I think they are worth what you pay for there, is you aren't comfortable or interested in doing them yourself.

However, there are several threads on here and about a million over at TT with re-shimming information, so if you want to learn the info is out there. I've only gotten into this recently but I have made huge headway because of the info that is out there.

 

[JRod4928]

Stock 2011 YZ125 setup:

BV
16 - 32.12
30.12
28.12
26.12
24.12
22.12
20.12
18.12
16.25
plate
5 - 11.25
14.12
16.12
18.12
20.12
2 - 22.12


Mid
20.12 (4X)
18.12
16.12
14.12
12.15
11.3 (2X)
17.3 (2X)

But, if you want to ride woods, I see no reason to run an MX stack.

Can't say for sure, but I would be surprised if the pistons were drastically different.

I was thinking that last night too - reshimming what I already have. I'll take pics of what I find to compare pistons with the YZ. At least if I screw something up, the next option is gold valves, which was what I was leaning towards anyway.

Side note - pro action said they'd revalve my forks for $225! That price makes me want to skip it all and let them do it. Why so cheap? The other shops were about $400 forks only.

 

[JRod4928]

When reshimming, what are some rules of thumb for converting mx stacks to woods to get more plush?