Question for the machinist..turning flywheel on lathe TXC 310

[guscycle]

I have had a few of the early production '13 TXC 310's that have begun "freewheeling" when using the electric start. In the past I would replace the gear set and freewheel bearing assembly (which "should have been replaced by dealer to newer version on vin's before .....0240 )but not the flywheel.The flywheels would show signs of very light galling and I would reuse them(wiping down the surface with 220 wet sand paper and checking for depth damage- which almost appears as it's just discoloration of the metal not galling).I have had both come back with freewheeling problems again This is a problem that Husky won't warrant,so replacing a almost 400.00 flywheel on bikes that have less than 25 hours is not setting very well.Now to get to the point..as vague as it may be...especially since you don't have one in your hand..can I get these flywheels turned down as minimal as possible without creating an excessive gap for proper function of the freewheel? I may have to pull down each component and measure distances at rest and full extension I figure.
Other info for people who may have this:these bikes have both intake valves at .006";the decomp side of the exhaust is set at .006" to help in decreasing compression at start up(was told some shops are at .005" but .006 has been working fine)the other ex. valve is still at .008". I am using Shorai batteries with 210 cranking amps and the fuel is Sunoco MO2X unleaded @97 octane.

 

[Kyle Tarry]

Turning a flywheel can be done, but you have to be really careful to keep it properly centered for balance reasons. The right way to do it is with a fixture that keeps the bore concentric. Your average shop won't have one of those, but a motocycle shop might (maybe RB designs, for example). A decent machinist could make one too.

For my own curiosity, do you have a picture of what you're trying to do? I've never had one of those apart, so I don't know how turning the flywheel is related to the starter problem.

 

[robertaccio]

I got mine warranty replaced along with the starter gear set. The flywheel had signs of pitting and galling from the sprag clutch. My independent shop mentioned that Kawasaki had a similar issue and by what my flywheel looked it to would have been part of Kaw warranty replacement (it was out of spec), my dealer wrote it up and I got a new flywheel.

 

[guscycle]

I had to reinstall the flywheel to get this rider back racing (when he is freed up from race schedule and get the new freewheel and starter gear set, I'll post pics)...just had to start using the kicker...but since adjusting the one valve to .006" it has helped booting this baby over. I contacted the original dealer about both of these bikes but said they were both out of the 30 day warranty(pretty bad considering they both have less than 25 hours).

 

[Up-tite]

I use a tool post grinder on the really bad ones ,but most will clean up with 220 then 300 then course red scotch bright.
The sprags must be cleaned, disassemble, scrub with petro then ultra sonic.
Later George

 

[Tinken]

One of the biggest problems with the flywheel is putting it back on. Most people just impact it back on which forces it against the key, often either fracturing, shattering the key or forcing the flywheel slightly off timing/balance. To keep this from happening, we developed a tool. http://www.ziptyracing.com/husqvarna-250-310-flywheel-tool/

 

[Up-tite]

Flywheel keys are made of too soft a material to shatter thru compression impacts.
If the flywheel comes loose it can shear.
Reason flywheels come loose is thru loss of torque or pressure on the taper sleeve of the flywheel to the taper on the crankshaft stub.
If the tapers on both flywheel and crank stub aren't right no reasonable amount of torque is going to keep it tight.
The fix with flywheels that come loose is to lap the flywheel to the stub. And proper torque.
Only reason for key is for ease of alignment of the flywheel to the stub.
Many ign systems don't use a key, it's a PIA to have to retime everytime flywheel is removed.
Flywheel holding tools are a good item if used properly also.
Later George

 

[guscycle]

Flywheel keys are made of too soft a material to shatter thru compression impacts.
If the flywheel comes loose it can shear.
Reason flywheels come loose is thru loss of torque or pressure on the taper sleeve of the flywheel to the taper on the crankshaft stub.
If the tapers on both flywheel and crank stub aren't right no reasonable amount of torque is going to keep it tight.
The fix with flywheels that come loose is to lap the flywheel to the stub. And proper torque.
Only reason for key is for ease of alignment of the flywheel to the stub.
Many ign systems don't use a key, it's a PIA to have to retime everytime flywheel is removed.
Flywheel holding tools are a good item if used properly also.
Later George

I've gotten in the habit of lapping flywheels back in the late 70's...it's a very good idea. To say I never used an impact on a flywheel would be a lie -mostly track side though.... but you know what,I'm just gonna have to get the Zip-Ty holder-and it looks cool. I've bought alot of Husky's specialty tools from Van Erps Husqvarna in the Netherlands,time to help the local U.S. guys.
Both of these bikes had new freewheels put on...one flywheel was galled a little more than the other but cleaned up well with 220/ScotchBrite. I don't have pics of flywheel but some of the freewheel gear...the freewheel side of the gear was like new (not like flywheel contact side)but I am concerned with the wear pattern on the teeth of both bikes. They both had the updates done with the gear sets(so I was told by dealer)...both have less than 25hours on them.

 

[Tinken]

Those gears would work better if they where hardened and TiN coated.

 

[guscycle]

I was actually thinking of having the new gear set coated with that friction reducing / surface modifier but forgot who did it here in Florida and what it was called - think it was DRC. It's suppose to fill in the imperfections on shafts and gears...allowing to hold the lubricant more evenly over the contact areas and make the components more durable...even in low lubricant situations.

 

[Tinken]

It needs to be hardened first though

 

[Up-tite]

I keep wondering as I read all these threads on starter problems as to whats really going on.
What has me confused reading these is I have never had a single e-start issue in all of the Huskies I've sold........All models and especially the 250/310 series.
Can't count on the OEM as it's quite clear they don't have a clue either.
They just come out with a new band-aid of a different color.
Would be interesting to see what oil's are being used from day 1.
I strongly feel reason I don't have or had any problems is 1st, Type and brand of oil I have my customers use.
First talking about oil is like talking about Religion and Politics.
Any products in todays world that has the ECO friendly or enviro safe lable is usually always an inferior product especially if it is a replacement, if the original wasn't .
From the pics I've seen on the bad gears and worm drives with out having had any tested by a failure analysis facility. It's either a breakdown in lubrication as in oil doesn't have enough anti shear,wear properties in it or there is a overload pressure being put on the part causing the part to deform evidance by the wear pattern. Caused by weak tolerence QC, missalignment,or just plain bad quality of parts being used.
Thinking about starting a thread as to only what oil used on the 250/310 having the problem.
Because it doesn't look as if the problem has been solved.
Later George

 

[Tinken]

It's not wear, it's physical metal deformity. Although I am curious what kind of oil you are recommending to your customers?

 

[Up-tite]

Spectro Golden4
Offroad
Synthetic Petrolem Blend
SAE20W-50

On back of bottle in fine print says Not Street Legal
Has a ton of Zinc in it along with 29 other addatives.
All oil companies were mandated to remove the zinc and other heavy metal addatives from all oils world wide these were for antiwear, now they use friction modifiers as a substatute for them.
They make the parts slick but don't give the cushion property.
OEM's recomend certain oils because of the DEAL they get, Same with Race Teams..............
Later George

 

[guscycle]

....4 out of 5 2013 Husky TXC 310's are using Motul 300V 5-40W,the 5th using Shell Rotella T6 Synthetic 5-40W
....2 of those 4 are having this recent failure ,
....Those same 2 are earlier vin number(before 225)
....Those same 2 ,I have been told, have had the updated gear set
....All 5 came from same dealer
....All 5 bikes had hour meters put on, by the dealer ,before delivery to customer
....although I am no longer a Husky dealership, I do still service them, I am more centrally located for these riders and I have been logging all valve clearance checks/adjustments and doing their oil/filter/screen changes since new . I did not recommend oils-these where based on the dealers recommendations or prior usage. ALL these bikes have had overkill on oil/filter changes... every 4-5 hours for the first 20 hours. Only the one using Rotella has 31 hours, the other 4 range from 22-29 hours- and of those 4,the two with gear set /freewheel problems are one with 22 hours and the other with 25.
Maybe it's time to use Spectro once I get this problem ironed out...

 

[Tinken]

I do not reccomend adding 50W to the 250/310 engine, you are asking for other problems if you do.

 

[Up-tite]

That's good as there is no such thing as a 50W.

 

[Motosportz]

That's good as there is no such thing as a 50W.

Even 60wt...

 

[Motosportz]

I converse with Tinken quite a bit, the guys knows a thing or two about oil and has looked inside countless race motors. He has seen many of them blow up, seen what is successful and what is not, knows what race teams run and what they will not, ZipTy does oil flow and crank mods... etc. Lets just say there is some really solid info coming out of that shop. IMHO.

 

[Motosportz]

I've gotten in the habit of lapping flywheels back in the late 70's...it's a very good idea. To say I never used an impact on a flywheel would be a lie -mostly track side though.... but you know what,I'm just gonna have to get the Zip-Ty holder-and it looks cool. I've bought alot of Husky's specialty tools from Van Erps Husqvarna in the Netherlands,time to help the local U.S. guys.
Both of these bikes had new freewheels put on...one flywheel was galled a little more than the other but cleaned up well with 220/ScotchBrite. I don't have pics of flywheel but some of the freewheel gear...the freewheel side of the gear was like new (not like flywheel contact side)but I am concerned with the wear pattern on the teeth of both bikes. They both had the updates done with the gear sets(so I was told by dealer)...both have less than 25hours on them.View attachment 37614View attachment 37615

Wow, those look really bad for 25hrs

I know it is a completely different motor and setup but just had the cover off my 511 at about 250 hrs and all the starter gears and drive gears look brand new. I'll dig up a pic...