Punctured tyre

[Pacificus]

I caught a nail in my front tyre, yesterday. After checking the tyre-wall markings, it looks like the front is tubeless and the rear tubed. is this the case?

I just spoke with a dealer in the UK who told me, according to his diagrams, both tyres are tubeless.

I need to know which is the case as I'm going to buy some anti-puncture gunk to prevent future flats. Can anyone please recommend a good anti-puncture liquid to go inside the tyres?

Assuming the front tyre actually is tubeless, I'll fix it using an internal patch as well as a dedicated tubeless tyre repair kit. The anti-puncture liquid will seal the deal!

Thanks.


P.S. the tyres in question are the standard Metzeler Saharas.

 

[Johnrg]

I am using http://www.ride-on.com/ in my tubes but there is a product for tubeless as well. Nice thing is it won't dry up like my Stans latex in my mtb. Vendors can pump it right in the tires from bulk if they carry it or buy the bottles... Same cost usually.

 

[Pacificus]

I am using http://www.ride-on.com/ in my tubes but there is a product for tubeless as well. Nice thing is it won't dry up like my Stans latex in my mtb. Vendors can pump it right in the tires from bulk if they carry it or buy the bottles... Same cost usually.

Thanks. It sounds good, and is sold in the UK! I've used sealant before, in both motorcycle and bicycle tyres. In the bicycle at least, it stopped working after a few months. initially it sealed big nail punctures, but soon became utterly ineffective. I forget the name, but it is one apparently used by Royal Mail.

 

[hasenpfeffer]

Interesting, the Terra front spec shows TL for the ABS version. I have my doubts though. Just because the tire itself is a tubeless capable tire, does not mean there isn't a tube inside.

I have a Strada, so I can't say for certain, but my bet would be that if you have spokes, you have a tube.

Tyres
TR 650 STRADA
Front ...............................................................................110/80 R19” M/C 59 V
Rear ................................................................................140/80 R17” M/C 59 V
Cold tyre pressure (Rider only)
Front ................................................................................2.2 kg/cm2
(31.29 psi)
Rear .................................................................................2.0 kg/cm2
(28.45 psi)
Cold tyre pressure (Rider and passenger)
Front ................................................................................2.2 kg/cm2
(31.29 psi)
Rear .................................................................................2,5 kg/cm2
(35.56 psi)

TR 650 TERRA
Front ....................................................................90/90 21” M/C 54 H TL (ABS)
90/90 21” M/C 54 S (no ABS)
Rear ........................................................................140/80 17” M/C 59 H (ABS)
140/80 18” M/C 70 S (no ABS)
Cold tyre pressure (Rider only)
Front ................................................................................2.0 kg/cm2
(28.45 psi)
Rear .................................................................................2.5 kg/cm2
(35.56 psi)
Cold tyre pressure (Rider and passenger)
Front ................................................................................2,0 kg/cm2
(28.45 psi)
Rear .................................................................................2,8 kg/cm2
(39.82 psi)

 

[Tinken]

I am using http://www.ride-on.com/ in my tubes but there is a product for tubeless as well. Nice thing is it won't dry up like my Stans latex in my mtb. Vendors can pump it right in the tires from bulk if they carry it or buy the bottles... Same cost usually.

I use Slime, but at a rate that is 1/2 the recommended volume to conserve weight.

 

[Pacificus]

Thanks, hasenpfeffer. That's what I figured - spokes means tube! Peering into the the rim, however, I couldn't see any sign of a tube. Fortunately, the puncture sealant johnrg recommended, is suitable for both tubed and tubless.

As for repairing holes in tyres, if tubeless I think the method I described in my previous post is a fairly good one; patching the tyre on the inside after sealing the hole. It's a contentious issue, and many urge replacing the tyre for a new one. I've made multiple permanent repairs to my tubeless mountain bike tyres using that technique, and actually most often without the internal patching. It works fine, as a permanent solution. Sure, the forces involved with the TR are much greater but the principles are the same and if the repair is proportionate it should be fine, no?

My Terra is the ABS version.

 

[Pacificus]

I use Slime, but at a rate that is 1/2 the recommended volume to conserve weight.

Interesting, thanks. Seems like quite a risk, to use less than the manufacturer recommends. Slime is more readily available, but perhaps I will seek-out some reviews/comparative tests before finalising my decision.

 

[Tinken]

Internal patching and plugging must always be preformed after a puncture has happened. Internal gels are a temporary fix regardless of manufacture claims. The problem is surviving the puncture at 80mph.

 

[Pacificus]

Internal patching and plugging must always be preformed after a puncture has happened.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this. Unless I see information that will change my mind, my current thinking is that I will seal the hole in the tyre (probably with a super glue or vulcanising solution) and then patch it from the inside (using a standard inner tube patch, applied to the internal tyre surface where the hole is). The anti-puncture sealant I intend to use is different to the temporary get-home-only foam/gel. I used it in my previous motorcycle (KLX250) and never had a flat (whether I would have had I not used the sealant is not something I know). I remember reading in the 90s that the sealant left in a tyre as a precaution is not to be trusted, and the tyre would always be weaker. But this is disputed. I used to believe that but am not so sure now.

 

[XLEnduroMan]

I am using http://www.ride-on.com/ in my tubes but there is a product for tubeless as well. Nice thing is it won't dry up like my Stans latex in my mtb. Vendors can pump it right in the tires from bulk if they carry it or buy the bottles... Same cost usually.

We are running Slime, but I really don't like it as it can be a pita when checking tire pressure. Have you had the Ride On product long enough to make an opinion? Does it gum up the valve core? Does it actually balance the wheels with out wheel weights? Etc...

 

[Tinken]

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this. Unless I see information that will change my mind, my current thinking is that I will seal the hole in the tyre (probably with a super glue or vulcanising solution) and then patch it from the inside (using a standard inner tube patch, applied to the internal tyre surface where the hole is). The anti-puncture sealant I intend to use is different to the temporary get-home-only foam/gel. I used it in my previous motorcycle (KLX250) and never had a flat (whether I would have had I not used the sealant is not something I know). I remember reading in the 90s that the sealant left in a tyre as a precaution is not to be trusted, and the tyre would always be weaker. But this is disputed. I used to believe that but am not so sure now.

No super glue or a tube patch, only real vulcanizing tire plugs and patches. A tiny hole left not repaired can turn into a much larger tear, blow out and death. There is no dispute or debate on this.

Our company takes the position that any repair to a motorcycle tire should be treated as a temporary repair. We recommend that as soon as possible after finding an object in your tire, you have the tire inspected by a professional. If the recommendation is for fixing the puncture or replacing the tire, then you should do so. Ride-On will not interfere with the application of conventional tire plug and patch repairs, and can easily be washed out of tires with water.http://www.ride-on.com/motorcycle-formula-mot.html

This material is a little dated, but it still has the proper procedure for tire repair:
http://www.rma.org/wp-content/uploads/prp_wallchart1111.pdf

 

[Pacificus]

Thanks, Tinken. I'll see if I can find a professional to look at the tyre. If I can't, I'll get a mushroom plug and some decent vulcanising glue.

 

[RidingDonkeys]

If you have spoked wheels, you have tubes in your tires. The tires may say tubeless, but that doesn't mean they have tubes in them.

If you have cast wheels, you are likely running tubeless. there would be no reason to put tubes on a cast wheel.

 

[Pacificus]

If you have spoked wheels, you have tubes in your tires. The tires may say tubeless, but that doesn't mean they have tubes in them.

If you have cast wheels, you are likely running tubeless. there would be no reason to put tubes on a cast wheel.

That's what I used to think. However, some BMWs, at least, have spoked tubeless wheels. My spoked-wheeled mountain bike also has tubeless tyres/wheels. I'll take the tyre off the TR's front wheel tomorrow and see for certain.

 

[Johnrg]

We are running Slime, but I really don't like it as it can be a pita when checking tire pressure. Have you had the Ride On product long enough to make an opinion? Does it gum up the valve core? Does it actually balance the wheels with out wheel weights? Etc...

I have not found it to gum up the core but I hesitate to use my bourbon tube guages if the tire valve has been rotated or is sitting close to the ground as it will release a bit of the stuff. The best method is to add air first to the tire and then adjust pressure with the valve at 6 or 9 o'clock of higher. Filling the tire first will blast any residual stuff out of the valve. Since it pretty much stays in the bottom of the tire when stopped you won't get any RO coming out. I use either my compressor or a dedicated old floor pump that has an innacurate guage anyway, as when you attach a bicycle pump it will pressurize the pump and any guage, possibly with RO. I replaced tires last week and was able to reuse my tubes by having the valve stem at 12 o'clock, removing core and air, then replacing core and changed my tires. I have no wheel weights and while my front tire had a slight issue balance wise when new, with the RO I just have no issues. I've got Slime tubes from years ago in AZ that nobody likes, Stans which has been great for the MTB but requires maintenance monthly or every 2 months and Ride On which has none of the negatives of Slime or Stans. I use a pencil guage so I don't trash a better one in any case and easy to replace.

 

[Ignaciob]

Unless they're non-stock special spoked rims that have been specially treated to become tubeless....you're very likely running tubes. The stock Husky Terra spoked rims are tubed.

That said, one *should* be able to look at the valve and decide if it's a tube valve sticking through a hole...perhaps with a nut on it and maybe at a slight angle.

If it's a truly special spoked rim it would have a formal valve stem like in a cast rim that seals that hole.

Maybe I'm missing some other super duper special situation, but think I can tell pretty easily by the valve if it's attached to a tube inside or if it's an airtight valve stem.

Whether a tire is compatible with a tube or not is a completely different issue and doesn't denote whether a tube is installed or not.

Also, as for goop....I TOTALLY stay clear of that stuff for tubeless applications. For tubes...I dunno...I've ran Slime before and maybe it's helped...maybe not. Having the tools and skill to remove, patch, reinstall, and air up a tube/tire is far better IMO.

 

[duibhceK]

That's what I used to think. However, some BMWs, at least, have spoked tubeless wheels. My spoked-wheeled mountain bike also has tubeless tyres/wheels. I'll take the tyre off the TR's front wheel tomorrow and see for certain.

Yes, some BMWs, Moto Guzzis, the Super Tenere, The Triumph Explorer, ... There's more and more bikes with spoked rims and tubeless tyres. But like others have mentioned, the all have specially spoked rims that are instantly recognizable and the valve stem is also a good tell.
The TR requires tubes though, unless you use something like the Tubliss system.

 

[Johnrg]

Alpina spokers are tubeless as they have a seal at the rim interface and tighten at the hub.

Re: sealants.. If a small thorn gets in my tire at 5pm in the boonies I would rather be able to limp out and replace at home later after dinner. I have had success during the last laps of bicycle races with a finish as opposed to a DNF using Stans sealant and no tubes. I stayed clear for years but have said goodbye to pinch flats on mtb. Road tires and street bike I don't use sealant. Only use it where I may want it. Most off road issues are pinch flats and thorns and occasional nails on wood bridges or around the house. No tubes, no pinch flats, but you may get a low pressure burp. Stans is good with that. Thorns may not get fully into a tire but a pin prick will still give you a flat and where some goo may save the day.

 

[Mike-AK]

Internal patching and plugging must always be preformed after a puncture has happened. Internal gels are a temporary fix regardless of manufacture claims. The problem is surviving the puncture at 80mph.

"I'm flying...I'm the luckiest boy in the world!"

 

[RidingDonkeys]

That's what I used to think. However, some BMWs, at least, have spoked tubeless wheels. My spoked-wheeled mountain bike also has tubeless tyres/wheels. I'll take the tyre off the TR's front wheel tomorrow and see for certain.

I was basing that comment strictly off stock TR650 wheels, as i had not heard mention of you changing wheels before.