Powercommander PCV with Autotune / TPS issue

[meeh]

Hi all,

I've recently purchased a powercommander 5 with an autotune module. I've connected everything up according to the manuals (wiretap orange / black wire) and all seems well. I've connected the autotune module to my rear lights for power. Autotune connected to the powercommander. O2 sensor to the autotune. Instructions seem pretty much idiot proof.

When I switch on my rear lights and thus the autotune, the TPS seems to go haywire. When I launch the calibration tool it gives a pretty consistent value somewhere between 0,950 and 0,970, however the % Throttle is jumping around from 40% to 100% and everything in between. This is with the bike not running.

I'm not able to start the bike and it seems it's being flood. I did get it started before but when I shut off the throttle when riding it, it died.

I've got an '08 SM510R with an '09 ECU btw.

Any ideas?

 

[jlk_250]

For whatever reason, the bike has to be running for the PCV to detect the TPS properly. (PCIII was not like this.) So if you tried calibrating it when the bike was off, that's why it's acting goofy. And that's probably why it will no longer start. For sure why, I think.

Hmm, so what do you do about it? Maybe load a zero map so it won't make any adjustments despite thinking you're at high throttle? I think it would run and you could recalibrate the throttle, then go back to whatever map you're using.

Interesting problem. Maybe a PCV expert has a better idea.

 

[meeh]

For whatever reason, the bike has to be running for the PCV to detect the TPS properly. (PCIII was not like this.) So if you tried calibrating it when the bike was off, that's why it's acting goofy. And that's probably why it will no longer start. For sure why, I think.

Hmm, so what do you do about it? Maybe load a zero map so it won't make any adjustments despite thinking you're at high throttle? I think it would run and you could recalibrate the throttle, then go back to whatever map you're using.

Interesting problem. Maybe a PCV expert has a better idea.

Hmm, not running wasn't the right description probably. I've got a racing (or simplified if you will, no clutch / start sensor, no fall sensor, no radiator fan) wiring loom. I can switch my fuel pump on and then it starts measuring the TPS. It seems to measure the values correctly but still the % throttle indication is all over the place. I suspect the % throttle is basically what the injector is getting fed and I guess that's why it's not starting. It's getting way too much.

I've tried a stock '09 510 mapping and the zero mapping. Both with the same results.

 

[jlk_250]

I'm a bit confused. You say when you calibrate the throttle position the reading is .950 to .970V. That is for idle only, right? What does it yield when you are at full throttle? Should be 4V or so as I recall. My PCIII would read the throttle position when the bike wasn't running but my PCV needs the bike running to read the throttle position. Maybe yours is different due to the different wiring harness, but that doesn't make sense either.

So you installed a zero map in the PCV and tried to start it without success? Then I would guess that your spark plug got too wet and is wet fouled. Check, and follow normal procedure for that case. If you've got a zero map in there it should be like the PCV is not even installed, so the throttle position calibration shouldn't matter.

 

[meeh]

I'm a bit confused. You say when you calibrate the throttle position the reading is .950 to .970V. That is for idle only, right? What does it yield when you are at full throttle? Should be 4V or so as I recall. My PCIII would read the throttle position when the bike wasn't running but my PCV needs the bike running to read the throttle position. Maybe yours is different due to the different wiring harness, but that doesn't make sense either.

So you installed a zero map in the PCV and tried to start it without success? Then I would guess that your spark plug got too wet and is wet fouled. Check, and follow normal procedure for that case. If you've got a zero map in there it should be like the PCV is not even installed, so the throttle position calibration shouldn't matter.

Correct, that's for idle. When I twist the throttle it goes up to 4,3V. So that looks fine. The throttle keeps jumping up and down with the Autotune switched on even though the TPS is correct.

I'll try some more stuff tonight.

 

[jlk_250]

Hmm. Okay, so when the output is .970V what throttle % does the PCV say? When the output is 4.3V what % throttle is the PCV saying? The output V is what the PCV is reporting, right, not what you see with a voltmeter? I do not see how the PCV can report a stable throttle position voltage yet report the % throttle jumping around unless it is not calibrated properly.

Wait, I just read your original post more carefully. If you remove the Autotune does all work well? I would take out the Autotune for now, get your bike running well and confirm that the throttle position calibration is correct. Then double check the wiring for the autotune before trying it again. Sorry, I apparently did not read your original question well enough.

 

[meeh]

Allright, I found one or the problem. After going through a whole of measuring, swapping sparkplugs, disconnecting the PCV and autotune it still didn't fire up.

I noticed the fuel pump was making a different, louder, sound than usual. Took the pump out of the tank and it appeared it had slipped. I've now secured it properly and it fires up again. With the PCV and autotune it still runs but the % throttle still jumps up and down but doesn't seem to have an effect on it running.

More testing tomorrow. Off to bed now.

 

[HSMRDave]

I spoke to Dyno jet about resetting the TPS, due to the instructions which were included being a bit ambiguous.
Just in case it's of any use:-

After warming up the bike
1/Get the Throttle calibration window up, and press reset
2/Turn on Ignition (don't start bike)
3/ With the throttle closed, click on the left arrow
4/ With throttle fully open, click on Right arrow
5/ then click OK

On my instructions it never mentions the little arrows

Dave

 

[jlk_250]

I spoke to Dyno jet about resetting the TPS, due to the instructions which were included being a bit ambiguous.
Just in case it's of any use:-

After warming up the bike
1/Get the Throttle calibration window up, and press reset
2/Turn on Ignition (don't start bike)
3/ With the throttle closed, click on the left arrow
4/ With throttle fully open, click on Right arrow
5/ then click OK

On my instructions it never mentions the little arrows

Dave

So, did this work for you? I do not think it is good advice from Dynojet. For one thing, the throttle should not be calibrated without the bike running (at least for throttle closed) and on my 2008 a PCV doesn't even get a throttle position reading when the bike is not running.

The manual doesn't mention the little arrows because you don't need to click on them for the procedure that's in the manual. When you hit reset, it is expecting you to start at throttle closed and to move to throttle open, then back to closed. Then click OK. The arrows are for if you want to teach only one position or the other. If it's at idle and you just want to reteach idle, click on the left arrow. No need to hit reset in that case. Then click on OK when you're done.

Hopefully my info is correct. I confirmed yesterday that I get 0.000 for a TPS reading on my PCV until the engine is actually running and my memory is pretty good about how I calibrated the PCV.

Any updates from OP or other PCV users on this subject?

 

[meeh]

I don't run a stock wiring loom so my input is pretty much useless I guess. I do get TPS readings with the engine not running but the killswitch off.

When it comes to calibrating, I just start the bike, let it idle and hit the reset button.

Everything now seems to work for me. I've noticed an increase in midrange power as I'm now able to out accelerate stock EFI 510's and even a 'Berg 570 last weekend on Villars-sous-Ecot (France, awesome Supermoto track with huge changes in height).

 

[HSMRDave]

So, did this work for you? I do not think it is good advice from Dynojet. For one thing, the throttle should not be calibrated without the bike running (at least for throttle closed) and on my 2008 a PCV doesn't even get a throttle position reading when the bike is not running.

The manual doesn't mention the little arrows because you don't need to click on them for the procedure that's in the manual. When you hit reset, it is expecting you to start at throttle closed and to move to throttle open, then back to closed. Then click OK. The arrows are for if you want to teach only one position or the other. If it's at idle and you just want to reteach idle, click on the left arrow. No need to hit reset in that case. Then click on OK when you're done.

Hopefully my info is correct. I confirmed yesterday that I get 0.000 for a TPS reading on my PCV until the engine is actually running and my memory is pretty good about how I calibrated the PCV.

Any updates from OP or other PCV users on this subject?

Yes it worked for me, I was with the bike connected to the PCV via my laptop when I spoke to Dynojet. I can't see why you have to have the bike running to set the TPS. The throttle is still fully closed whether the bike is off or on tickover. As soon as I turned on the ignition and followed the guys instructions ,it all seemed to do what he said it would.
Sorry if this has confused the situation more, but this is what Dynojet in the UK instructed me to do.

Dave

 

[jlk_250]

Yes it worked for me, I was with the bike connected to the PCV via my laptop when I spoke to Dynojet. I can't see why you have to have the bike running to set the TPS. The throttle is still fully closed whether the bike is off or on tickover. As soon as I turned on the ignition and followed the guys instructions ,it all seemed to do what he said it would.
Sorry if this has confused the situation more, but this is what Dynojet in the UK instructed me to do.

Dave

Hmm. Well, both you and Meeh get valid TPS readings with the ignition on and the engine off. My 2008 SMR510 needs to have the engine actually running for some reason. As in, the PCV software reports 0.00 volts for TPS until the engine is actually running. My PCIII worked like yours, where all I had to do is turn on the ignition. Weird. I'll ask Dynojet and report what I learn.

Anyway, the reason it is better to calibrate the TPS with the engine running is because the value will change a little bit with the engine running. Like if it's 1.015V with the engine not running, it might be 1.060V with the engine running. (Just made-up numbers.) And it even says to calibrate with the engine running in the PCV instructions. It may work fine either way, but the best practice is to calibrate it the way it will be used--engine running.

 

[jlk_250]

Hmm. Well, both you and Meeh get valid TPS readings with the ignition on and the engine off. My 2008 SMR510 needs to have the engine actually running for some reason. As in, the PCV software reports 0.00 volts for TPS until the engine is actually running. My PCIII worked like yours, where all I had to do is turn on the ignition. Weird. I'll ask Dynojet and report what I learn.

Here's what DJ tech support said.

"Some bikes will power up the TPS when just the key is on. Most bikes, including yours, only power up the TPS when the fuel circuit relay is on like when the bike is running. This is normal and nothing to worry about."

This doesn't explain why the PCIII didn't need the engine running but the PCV does (same bike) or why my PCV needs the engine running but others don't, but I guess that will stay a mystery for now.