Powder Coat or Paint

[GaryM]

I am going to restore a second 430CR and have already started the project. Would you paint or powder coat. I know this is old subject. Please look at first 430CR pics I just had done end of last year with powder coat . Please look at side of frame and swingarm. So far the just for fun riding- these scratches on the powder coat rub out with simple rubbing compound. What is your experience with powder coat??
How about long term. It does look good
Ps I know i am just really rubbing out the plastic powder coat. I would like enjoy the feedback Oh whatkind of paint ??

 

[mattmcphail]

What did you do to get your jug all nice and pretty? Media blast?

 

[GaryM]

What did you do to get your jug all nice and pretty? Media blast?

I dont have cabinet - shop did it. Believe it was a plastic media - note sand blasting removes to much metal I have used soda blast before but was not strong
enough for head and cylinder.

 

[mike328]

Gary... I went with paint on my '71 400 and "72 450. My thought is based on ease of touch up, because I am so clumsy and tend to bump things into my frame etc.. I touched up my '71 with an air brush a couple times. Already touched up the 450 too.
Your bike looks great!

 

[pcnsd]

First, Nice bike! I love my 430 too. Re: Paint or Powder coat, it is a coin flip as to which is better. Both have their pro and cons. The paint is damaged quicker over time and the power coat is harder to repair when there is damage. Keep in mind, if you ride your bike it will deteriorate with each ride, it is just unavoidable. Personally, I go with paint because it is easier to repair. I needed to redo my frame every 3-4 years when I was vintage racing. Paint type?. Enamels and urethanes offer the best range of properties to my mind.

Best regards,
Paul

 

[GaryM]

First, Nice bike! I love my 430 too. Re: Paint or Powder coat, it is a coin flip as to which is better. Both have their pro and cons. The paint is damaged quicker over time and the power coat is harder to repair when there is damage. Keep in mind, if you ride your bike it will deteriorate with each ride, it is just unavoidable. Personally, I go with paint because it is easier to repair. I needed to redo my frame every 3-4 years when I was vintage racing. Paint type?. Enamels and urethanes offer the best range of properties to my mind.

Best regards,
Paul

Hi.
I think I am really looking to know if one would choose a three step process if paint is use. Self etching primer, paint, clear ??

I talked with a dirt track oval racer a while back and said he used a none clear coat paint so he
could easily touch up paint between races. I just don't remember what he said he used. He said it was hard durable paint, had nice finished sheen without clear coat. Does anyone know what he used?

On bike above going to add small amount of clear 3M paint protection film on frame rails at riding boot rubbing points to keep that frayed look off the powder coat.

Thank you,
Gary

 

[pcnsd]

I think I am really looking to know if one would choose a three step process if paint is use. Self etching primer, paint, clear ??

I talked with a dirt track oval racer a while back and said he used a none clear coat paint so he
could easily touch up paint between races. I just don't remember what he said he used. He said it was hard durable paint, had nice finished sheen without clear coat. Does anyone know what he used?

Do you have your own spray gear and PPE?
I would go with a 2 step process. Primer and color coat, no clear coat, it will only make later touch ups more obvious (and difficult). The paint your friend used was likely an acrylic enamel color coat with an appropriate hardener. They are still available. The final gloss out is very much in the hardener selection and there are always more than one choice that works with the base paint from "Dull" to "Wet look". Look at what is recommended by your local automotive paint supplier. There is a fair amount of information to be had at the paint counter, just tell them what you want to do and ask for advice. If the first guy is the silent "we don't deal with amateurs" type, go to his competitor. You haven't mentioned matching the Husqvarna silver, it is not readily available and will need to be custom mixed. Bring a good clean sample for color matching when you decide to buy. Remember that preparation for painting is 80% of the job and use only the recommended thinner for your paint. You can clean up with Home Depot lacquer thinner.
Maybe someone here can suggest a mix code for Husky silver?

Regards,
Paul

 

[jimspac]

What I have purchased to spray my white frames is PPG Concept. It is a single stage urethane like Delron but does not use clear. It is also flexible enough to spray plastic tanks with as long they are properly prepped(different subject). I chose Concept because I do not want the film thickness of powder or base clear coat systems and can be flaatened for semi gloss additive for whatever level of gloss you want. No additive for hi gloss. This is a PPG code for Bultaco silver that used to be on Hugh's Bultaco website. I was told by a Husky restorer it is a very close match to Husqvarna silver. DAR 34926

 

[CJBROWN]

Hi.
I think I am really looking to know if one would choose a three step process if paint is use. Self etching primer, paint, clear ??

I talked with a dirt track oval racer a while back and said he used a none clear coat paint so he
could easily touch up paint between races. I just don't remember what he said he used. He said it was hard durable paint, had nice finished sheen without clear coat. Does anyone know what he used?

On bike above going to add small amount of clear 3M paint protection film on frame rails at riding boot rubbing points to keep that frayed look off the powder coat.

Thank you,
Gary

Gary,
I've done a number of restorations, was heavy into the vintage thing about 10 years ago. I rode Penton/KTM as a kid and found a few of the oldies and restored them. Did a DKW for an enthusiast, and several tanks for others. A lot of guys would powder coated frames, and frankly us guys that did a lot of the oldies would never consider it for frames.

You're on the right track but don't clear-coat, just use a cross-linked acrylic enamel. It's similar in chemical and chip resistance to epoxy or powder coat. Its best feature though, as you mention, is that it can be easily sanded down and recoated or touched up. Powder coat, once on there, you're stuck with it. It's virtually impossible to remove, it really can't be sandblasted off, and it chips and it's thick so they really show.

I used to have a local blast shop that would do a frame for like $60. Came back bright metal, all ready to go. My favorite paints since the 70's is Dupont, but PPG is good too. Just never learned the PPG componentry. Yes, self-etching primer is a must, then a primer-sealer - we always used Velvaseal, then your top coat. My all-time favorite was Centari, but you can't buy it in CA anymore. I still go over to Phoenix and pick it up. Mar-Hyde makes a wet-look hardener that's a ton cheaper than the dupont equivalent and it works great. Cross-links the paint molecules and makes it shine, makes it chemical resistant like for spilled gas on a tank. You can even do a low-gloss for a frame if that's what makes it look original.

Another plus is you can do your own painting, doing parts in groups or whatever. You can setup a make-shift paint booth in a garage with a blue plastic tarp and a box fan.

Centari, as with most acrylic enamels, can be wet-sanded and polished the next day. I've done tanks and other high-finish bike parts as well as cars with it, and you can create a mirror smooth finish that's durable and chemical resistant.

Powder coating works really well for hubs and engine cases, being most popular for the former.

Here's a pic of my Kawasaki Versys that was Kawi-green from the factory. It's was a bit disconcerting to be sanding down brand new parts on a new bike with less than 200 miles on it! I copied the 2010 paint scheme with a matt-finish tank and high-gloss farings, fender, and side panels.

 

[GaryM]

Gary,
I've done a number of restorations, was heavy into the vintage thing about 10 years ago. I rode Penton/KTM as a kid and found a few of the oldies and restored them. Did a DKW for an enthusiast, and several tanks for others. A lot of guys would powder coated frames, and frankly us guys that did a lot of the oldies would never consider it for frames.

You're on the right track but don't clear-coat, just use a cross-linked acrylic enamel. It's similar in chemical and chip resistance to epoxy or powder coat. Its best feature though, as you mention, is that it can be easily sanded down and recoated or touched up. Powder coat, once on there, you're stuck with it. It's virtually impossible to remove, it really can't be sandblasted off, and it chips and it's thick so they really show.

I used to have a local blast shop that would do a frame for like $60. Came back bright metal, all ready to go. My favorite paints since the 70's is Dupont, but PPG is good too. Just never learned the PPG componentry. Yes, self-etching primer is a must, then a primer-sealer - we always used Velvaseal, then your top coat. My all-time favorite was Centari, but you can't buy it in CA anymore. I still go over to Phoenix and pick it up. Mar-Hyde makes a wet-look hardener that's a ton cheaper than the dupont equivalent and it works great. Cross-links the paint molecules and makes it shine, makes it chemical resistant like for spilled gas on a tank. You can even do a low-gloss for a frame if that's what makes it look original.

Another plus is you can do your own painting, doing parts in groups or whatever. You can setup a make-shift paint booth in a garage with a blue plastic tarp and a box fan.

Centari, as with most acrylic enamels, can be wet-sanded and polished the next day. I've done tanks and other high-finish bike parts as well as cars with it, and you can create a mirror smooth finish that's durable and chemical resistant.

Powder coating works really well for hubs and engine cases, being most popular for the former.

Here's a pic of my Kawasaki Versys that was Kawi-green from the factory. It's was a bit disconcerting to be sanding down brand new parts on a new bike with less than 200 miles on it! I copied the 2010 paint scheme with a matt-finish tank and high-gloss farings, fender, and side panels.

 

[highdez1981430cr]

what type of gun are you using and who do you use as a source for your paint?

I want to start painting my cars and motorcycles like a professional so any help pointing me in the right direction would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Darrell

 

[dartyppyt]

Was talked into powder coating my WR 250 frame. Have less than 10 hrs on it and is chipping if I look at it wrong. I would use a good acrylic enamel, Dupont or PPG. I am also going to try base coat and clear but am going to use flex additive in the clear. That way it stays more flexible and resists chipping. It is expensive, but body shops will sell you amount needed. Also, going to use plastix adhesion promoter on the plastic shrouds and try urethane clear/flex additive right over the graphics so it looks like an in molded graphic?

 

[CJBROWN]

Base coat clear coat for frames - no. Acrylic enamel yes. Flex agent, no.

The very best single stage enamel is Dupont Centari. Outlawed in CA but you can buy in in AZ. Dunno about IL. Add a cross-linking hardner, Marhyde makes s a good cheap one. Sets up like urethane, can wet sand and polish the next day. Been using this stuff for 25 years. OEM quality.

An automotive paint store is the source. HVLP gun, nothing too expensive is fine. Clean, moisture free air from a 5hp compressor is fine.

Dupont's Nason is just okay. Harder to shoot, pretty durable, a lot cheaper. Can get anywhere. Okay for overall, horrible for spot panel as it doesn't match an oem color for shit. My local paint store will custom match.

PPG has a good enamel as well, just not familiar with it. House of Color, good but no oem matching.

Bulldog is a really good flex agent and adhesion promotor for plastic. What they use on bumpers. Won't work on polyethelene which is what a lot of motorcycle plastic is. Will just flake off.

The best base/clear is Dupont Chroma System. Can't get in CA anymore either.

For cars, everybody has a good base paint now. Best urethane clear is SPI in GA. Can mail order. What the pro shops are using now.

 

[dartyppyt]

What about Imron?

Good to know about the plastics.

Just did a frame in Centari/marhyde. It is chipping just like the powder coat. I did some years ago and never chipped, I have a hunch they are changing what they are made up of? That's why I wanted to try chroma system.

 

[CJBROWN]

Imron was a paint developed for aviation applications. Was known as liquid plastic. Would be good for a frame. Also outlawed in CA. In fact I'm not sure Dupont is making it anymore. Would have to check. For automotive pretty much everything is urethane now.
The problem with imron is it could not be leveled and polished. Shoot it and that's it. It's basically a two-part epoxy paint. Nobody buffs out an airplane, so it worked well for them. Weather proof, fuel proof, durable, high gloss, UV proof. When it got old they stripped and re-painted. And you could put it over aluminum because it was flexible. Some corvettes got shot with it, plastic body.

Centari will chip on down tubes. Sand down and re-shoot - can be repaired. Powdercoat - you're screwed as you can't sand it, can't sandblast it - once it's on there you're done. Works good for hubs tho.

Chroma or any base coat clear coat would be worth a try. Basically you're applying a urethane clear over a color base coat. Urethane is durable, but it will chip too. Pretty much nothing will stand up to down tubes on a dirtbike. So you're best off with something that can be repaired/re-shot/patch painted to restore and that's why a single stage works so well for a frame. That's the main reason powder coating is so horrible - you can't fix it.

 

[dartyppyt]

Thanx for some tips!

 

[fletchman45]

Enough said. I will not even give a tip****************************************!

 

[visiteur1948]

BEFORE and AFTER frame HUSQVARNA
WR 1982 powder coat AKZONOBEL!

very good in dirt - bike !
(Europe France )

 

[CJBROWN]

I don't think there was ever a dispute or question on powder coat appearance.

 

[HuskyT]

I am going to restore a second 430CR and have already started the project. Would you paint or powder coat. I know this is old subject. Please look at first 430CR pics I just had done end of last year with powder coat . Please look at side of frame and swingarm. So far the just for fun riding- these scratches on the powder coat rub out with simple rubbing compound. What is your experience with powder coat??
How about long term. It does look good
Ps I know i am just really rubbing out the plastic powder coat. I would like enjoy the feedback Oh whatkind of paint ??View attachment 9931View attachment 9929View attachment 9930

Gary - different subject but what pipe are you running and what kind of surface prep / finish on it?

T