Poll - 449/511 EFI butterfly removal

[Husq-a-daygo]

Did the BF removal on Thursday then Flashed the zipty racing map on the PC5. Didn't ride until Saturday when I had a D38/D37 PAY IT FORWARD GP race. Moto/ST/enduroX course lots of opportunities for bad situation flameouts but the results were that I placed 1st in my class and skill level. I drank the cool aid and it tastes good!

 

[Dangermouse449]

Did the BF removal on Thursday then Flashed the zipty racing map on the PC5. Didn't ride until Saturday when I had a D38/D37 PAY IT FORWARD GP race. Moto/ST/enduroX course lots of opportunities for bad situation flameouts but the results were that I placed 1st in my class and skill level. I drank the cool aid and it tastes good!

Great result for you!!

 

[kees]

BF removal works great but didn't solve my hot start issue
I want to make a hot start valve where the plug is (te449 2013)
does anyone have suggestion for a valve to use as a hotstart valve
When I remove the plug my bike starts immediately ( high idle of course)

 

[Dangermouse449]

BF removal works great but didn't solve my hot start issue
I want to make a hot start valve where the plug is (te449 2013)
does anyone have suggestion for a valve to use as a hotstart valve
When I remove the plug my bike starts immediately ( high idle of course)
View attachment 41434

That's a good idea, actually.
You could find & mount a small ball valve & use a little vacuum filter off a car to stop it sucking dirt in.
Lots of '90s model cars that still had carbs had little filters on the vacuum hoses.

Tinken has viewed the TC fast idle knob with a view to fitting it to the TE body. He says the housing isn't thick enough to allow machining .....

 

[Suputin]

I spent all afternoon getting my 511 back together. After reading all the solutions and fixes for the flameout issue I decided to do all of them.

I added a ground wire to the throttle body ... easy.

I removed the cam pin for the anti-engine braking system .... turned out to be kind of a PIA to get the pin out. I had to remove the entire throttle piece in order to punch the pin out even after having ground off half the back side.

and I removed the FBW butterfly plate .... removing the plate is the easy part. Getting the air box velocity stack properly back into place is a HUGE PIA.

I got out for a little test ride and everything seemed good. The engine braking without the silly anti-braking system is hardly something I'd worry about or would bother me so why they went to all the effort is beyond me. Seems like an annoying solution to a non-existent problem.

With the FBW butterfly removed the first thing I noticed is the motor hits harder from right off throttle. This may take a bit of getting used to but it is not a major problem like it was with my SXV550 ... which was a beast when the throttle was cracked. I can see it being a bit iffy running off road at slow speeds or over difficult terrain but if it solves the flameout then I will be happy.

The flameout problem was a MAJOR piss off and nearly sent me to hospital on one occasion. I went to launch off a tight loading dock and the engine flamed out just before I hit the drop. Luckily I got it stopped before the front wheel went over the edge cause if it had, I'd have had a serious drop to the pavement face first with 250 lbs of bike right behind me.

The harder initial hit from the motor allowed me to do something I had never done on my 511 before. I got it to power wheelie in 4th gear .... no clutch. Sit back, whack the throttle and give a good hard tug on the bars and she came right up at about 70-80 kms/hr (about 50 mph). Thats pretty impressive IMO. Not too many bikes will do that.

 

[Dangermouse449]

Just for info, the 'anti engine braking thing' nearly sent me to hospital several times.
On my 449 it was never consistent. Sometime the bike engine braked, sometimes it did not.
When braking late into turns in the bush, a surprise extra 2000 rpm is a BIG shock!
Glad you like the low down grunt, I don't find mine hard to ride at low speed, but love the big hit out in the open!

Enjoy.

 

[Mr Ford40]

Rode mine couple of days ago, now down low [first gear/second gear alittle throttle] a real uneven jerking in the bike smiliar to it hunting a few more revs and she is better go back to little throttle same problem . ANY IDEAS.

 

[Suputin]

Rode mine couple of days ago, now down low [first gear/second gear alittle throttle] a real uneven jerking in the bike smiliar to it hunting a few more revs and she is better go back to little throttle same problem . ANY IDEAS.

That jerking is the result of drivline lash combined with a much more direct hit of power from the engine when the throttle is cracked. A softer cam on the throttle tube can help that.

I have considered the possibility of grinding down the FBW butterfly to make it smaller (maybe 1/4 smaller diameter). That would potentially give a more progressive hit of power down low but still eliminate the flame out problem.

Until then if I have to choose between the instant power hit or flameouts then I will learn to deal with the power. The flameouts are both horribly annoying and potentially dangerous with some of the stuff I do with my bike.

 

[Motosportz]

I have several good long rides on mine now with the BF out. Zero issues, better throttle response, better slow going, better idle, better starting and the big one for me, no dead throttle. The power differences are not huge, in fact sometimes not sure if there is any. But the bike runs better and no dead throttle so mission accomplished for me. Big wheelies were order of the day.

Yesterday I got her all dressed up ion dualsport cloths again for the DS season. Did a 78 mile shakedown ride. Got in to some seriously gnarly new trail we found. motor did great. Buddies KTM 350 was spewing some coolant, mine did not even seem hot. Not sure if he has a fan or not.

Anyway all good on the BF removal for me. Oh, I did play with the JD. If I go to rich on the green (low end) I start to reintroduce flameouts. I never had any real flameouts and figured that was a lean thing but mine will do it if to rich.

All dressed up for some DS...

Top of the mountain just before sunset. Was really tough to not blast up the hiker only trail

 

[Dangermouse449]

Rode mine couple of days ago, now down low [first gear/second gear alittle throttle] a real uneven jerking in the bike smiliar to it hunting a few more revs and she is better go back to little throttle same problem . ANY IDEAS.

Have you tried moving the TPS as in the original post?

If I opened my throttle (even before the mods) VERY slowly away from idle the engine speed increased, but not smoothly.
It staggered & sounded laboured.
I moved the lower primary TPS sensor very very slightly while idling & the engine note smoothed out (kind of like adjusting an old idle mixture screw on a engine)
The mapping is lean around idle, moving the TPS shifts where the ecu is on the maps slightly higher & delivers more fuel.
Did I see you had a new exhaust too, that also will reduce back pressure & will need richer mixtures.

Hope that helps

 

[Mr Ford40]

Have you tried moving the TPS as in the original post?

Thanks mate ,I will try over the weekend and see if it makes a difference. The exhaust has been on the bike before I did the BF mod and race map3 , thanks will try it out.

 

[9880sts]

got my bike back from the Workshop... seems to run OK again. Tomorrow we are going on a 100mile ride in the High Country. Many long Hills . The bike used to have many Dead throttle moments up those tracks. But thats History...

With the stalling issue in low idle, we will see how it goes.

 

[Mr Ford40]

got my bike back from the Workshop... seems to run OK again. Tomorrow we are going on a 100mile ride in the High Country. Many long Hills . The bike used to have many Dead throttle moments up those tracks. But thats History...

With the stalling issue in low idle, we will see how it goes.

9880sts good luck mate let us know what was wrong and how your bike went.

 

[Mike Dan]

I was lucky because my 449 didn't have any flameouts or dead throttle issues while stock. It did surge at constant throttle though. Riding on the street was very annoying. I replaced the muffler with an FMF slip on. This helped the power a little, but the surging continued. I had the BMW #3 map flashed. With the power up plug in "race Map II" the bike ran pretty good, but had flameouts frequently. I tried removing the power up plug, but the engine surged so badly throughout the rpm range I could hardly ride it in the woods. I rode in a 61 mile dual sport event with the jumper in and did pretty well. I got very good at restarting the bike after many, many flameouts. I tried to adjust the brass idle screw, but had the throttle hang at 4000 rpm constantly. I set it back to the stock position. I have just removed the butterfly and the roller. After a short test ride, I am very happy with the difference in throttle response, engine braking, and instant return to idle. I will have to ride tight woods soon to see if the flameouts still occur. I will work with the idle screw in very small increments if they do. Thanks to everyone on this thread. Your trial and error has saved me lots of time and money.

 

[Dangermouse449]

Good to hear it has made a difference for you

I had the surging at light throttle settings on my own bike also. The TPS adjustment has stopped that, basically moving where it runs on the maps slightly.
You can tune it out with a piggyback, or try moving the lower TPS slightly to a richer position to overcome the lean section of the map.

Enjoy!

 

[9880sts]

9880sts good luck mate let us know what was wrong and how your bike went.

Strange things.... ????!?!?! i don't know what to think of it.
1- ignition Voltage to low ???? i thought thats a fixed value.
2- he couldnt really give me proper answer as i picked up my bike.

So i went riding today. bike was running good untill it was properly heated up.
Low idle was so low , it didn't even start. I had to adjust the Brass Screw.
Now the bike runs quite high in low idle and even stays up high and takes a few seconds before settling down.

I runs ok ... but still you can hear it does not run 100% in low idle. There was also a 449 (2013) with us today. In Stock conditions. WTF Guys.
i didn't even remember how bad the Engine Braking was with the little stud installed. We swapped bikes for about 1 hr. He wanted to try my Flexbars and Suspension setup. Well he was Sold after that hour for the whole Setup including stud removal and butterfly.......
By the End of the ride, the bike run a bit better. But i willdrop it off at the Workshop again.. not completley happy yet.


But our mod with the Butterfly and stud is just priceless. !!!

 

[Nick Noodles]

First ride today after removing the second butterfly and love it.
No flameouts and the throttle is a lot more responsive.

 

[Suputin]

Had the bike out yesterday and it suffered a few flameouts. Seems I have some work to do still.

 

[Dangermouse449]

Had the bike out yesterday and it suffered a few flameouts. Seems I have some work to do still.

Replied to your tps question on the other thread

 

[9880sts]

Just did another Butterfly Removal and also saw two bikes at my HUsqvarna Dealer with the Butterfly removed. So the Husky Dealers here in OZ starting doing it !!!