• Hi everyone,

    As you all know, Coffee (Dean) passed away a couple of years ago. I am Dean's ex-wife's husband and happen to have spent my career in tech. Over the years, I occasionally helped Dean with various tech issues.

    When he passed, I worked with his kids to gather the necessary credentials to keep this site running. Since then (and for however long they worked with Coffee), Woodschick and Dirtdame have been maintaining the site and covering the costs. Without their hard work and financial support, CafeHusky would have been lost.

    Over the past couple of weeks, I’ve been working to migrate the site to a free cloud compute instance so that Woodschick and Dirtdame no longer have to fund it. At the same time, I’ve updated the site to a current version of XenForo (the discussion software it runs on). The previous version was outdated and no longer supported.

    Unfortunately, the new software version doesn’t support importing the old site’s styles, so for now, you’ll see the XenForo default style. This may change over time.

    Coffee didn’t document the work he did on the site, so I’ve been digging through the old setup to understand how everything was running. There may still be things I’ve missed. One known issue is that email functionality is not yet working on the new site, but I hope to resolve this over time.

    Thanks for your patience and support!

Overdrive 6th gear

Coffee,

What is the primary drive ratio for the 4t's in question? I can give you exact speeds at rpms with that number.
 
wallybean;132697 said:
Coffee,

What is the primary drive ratio for the 4t's in question? I can give you exact speeds at rpms with that number.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure the rpm vs mph/kph makes a whole lot of difference, they are, what they are. And of course sprockets can be changed to whatever people want.

As bizarre as it sounds, that first reduction changes fairly frequently, especially for the 250. I've calculated (and ridden at) the redline (12,500 rpms with stock gearing on my 2006 TE250 13/50) at 85mph.

From the 2006 TE250 spec sheet:
PIGNONE MOTORE / Engine sprocket ............ Z/Teeth 24
CORONA FRIZIONE / Clutch gear ................... Z/Teeth 88
RAPPORTO DI TRASMISSIONE / Transmission ratio 3.666


From the 2006 owners manual in pdf form (too large to attach):
PRIMARY DRIVE
Drive pinion gear- Clutch ring gear (TC 250) ...............Z 20- Z 67
Drive pinion gear- Clutch ring gear (TE 250) ................Z 24- Z 88
Drive pinion gear- Clutch ring gear (450-510)...............Z 23- Z 63
Transmission ratio (TC 250) .................................................. 3,350
Transmission ratio (TE 250)................................................... 3,666
Transmission ratio(400-450-510)........................................... 2,739

1ª/1st 2,000 (28/14)
2ª/2nd 1,611 (29/18)
3ª/3rd 1,333 (24/18)
4ª/4th 1,086 (25/23)
5ª/5th 0,920 (23/25)
6ª/6th 0,814 (22/27)


FINAL RATIOS
1st gear (TE 250) ............... ...............28,205
1st gear (TE 450) .............. ................21,070
1st gear (TE 510) .............. ................19,565
1st gear (TC 250) ..............................26,055
1st gear (TC 450) ............... ...............18,261
1st gear (TC 510) ............... ...............17,159
1st gear (SMR 400-450-510) .............16,435
2nd gear (TE 250) ..............................22,721
2nd gear (TE 450) ..............................16,973
2nd gear (TE 510) ..............................15,761
2nd gear (TC 250) ..............................21,348
2nd gear (TC 450) ..............................14,130
2nd gear (TC 510) ..............................13,283
2nd gear (SMR 400-450-510) ............13,239
3rd gear (TE 250) ..............................18,803
3rd gear (TE 450) ..............................14,047
3rd gear (TE 510) ..............................13,043
3rd gear (TC 250) ..............................17,631
3rd gear (TC 450) ..............................12,357
3rd gear (TC 510) ..............................11,616
3rd gear (SMR 400-450-510) .............10,956
4th gear (TE 250) ........................... ...15,329
4th gear (TE 450) ............................ ..11,451
4th gear (TE 510) .......................... ....10,633
4th gear (TC 250) ..............................15,172
4th gear (TC 450) ..............................10,633
4th gear (TC 510) ................................9,995
4th gear (SMR 400-450-510) ...............8,932
5th gear (TE 250) ..............................12,974
5th gear (TE 450) ......................... .......9,692
5th gear (TE 510) .......................... ......9,000
5th gear (TC 250) ..............................13,324
5th gear (TC 450) ................................9,338
5th gear (TC 510) ................................8,778
5th gear (SMR 400-450-510) ..............7,560
6th gear (TE 250) .......................... ....11,491
6th gear (TE 450) ................................8,584
6th gear (TE 510) .......................... ......7,971
6th gear (SMR 400-450-510) ..............6,696
 
Here are your speed comparisons between the stock 6th gear and the Motosportz 6th for the TE's.

TE 250, 13x50 sprockets, 110/100 tire, @ 8000 rpm

Stock- 56 mph
Motosportz 6th- 63 mph

TE 450/510, 14x50 sprockets, 120/100 tire, @ 8000 rpm

Stock- 83 mph
Motosportz 6th- 93 mph

That makes a huge difference in real world rideability connecting trails and cruising on the road.
 
In terms of the question: what level of interest in actually purchasing the parts needed if made available?

I honestly have to say- that I would have great interest in the part being availble for upgrade. However, personally I would probably be very motivated if I had to already disassemble the motor for something. I might do it without needing to... but I am a 2 birds 1 stone kinda guy. Hell maybe 3 birds...

I plan on riding this bike for quite some time yet so the likelyhood will continue to go up. I'll spread the word with my WI local Husky friends and see where they are at when I get a chance.

Thanks :thumbsup:
 
wallybean;132728 said:
Here are your speed comparisons between the stock 6th gear and the Motosportz 6th for the TE's.

TE 250, 13x50 sprockets, 110/100 tire, @ 8000 rpm

Stock- 56 mph
Motosportz 6th- 63 mph

TE 450/510, 14x50 sprockets, 120/100 tire, @ 8000 rpm

Stock- 83 mph
Motosportz 6th- 93 mph

That makes a huge difference in real world rideability connecting trails and cruising on the road.
Click to expand...

Yep. As I calculated earlier: 1.11 difference, or 11%.. roughly.



It is worth mentioning that the re-line for the older 250s (pre-ultra light 2010) is 12,500 whereas the 450/510 red-line is much lower (10,500?, 9,500?)
 
Also are you speaking of just adding another gear somewhere in the case? If not would it be hydraulic or electronic? Restoring British sports cars for coming up on 22 years I can assure you their is not much good about an electronic controlled hydraulic (450 psi) over-drive. Id rather throw on a larger front sprocket, makes a world of difference ;) We still like you guys though!:thumbsup:
 
spleno1;132809 said:
Also are you speaking of just adding another gear somewhere in the case? If not would it be hydraulic or electronic? Restoring British sports cars for coming up on 22 years I can assure you their is not much good about an electronic controlled hydraulic (450 psi) over-drive. Id rather throw on a larger front sprocket, makes a world of difference ;) We still like you guys though!:thumbsup:
Click to expand...

Nothing that fancy, just replacing the current gears with different gears.
 
I would be interested in this. I use my 310 for dual sporting only and this would be a nice addition. Does only 6th gear get replaced?
 
I'd be interested & was going to investigate this myself, but ran out of availible time. Personally, I think that both 5th and 6th should be changed, with 6th increasing at double the increase of 5th.
Ie. if 5th went up 5%, 6th should be a further 10% ratio increase from that.

The cost issue becomes a chicken and egg thing; you have to make a whole bunch of them to make it cheap enough to be a no-brainer.
 
ducnet;134163 said:
Couldn't you bump the current 6th gear into the 5th gear slot?:excuseme:
Click to expand...

Hi Guys, 5th gear is a double gear and would be very expensive to have made. The 6th gear set is a single gear set that doesn't involve another gear. That was our reasoning for staying with 6th only.
Motosportz Mike.
 
I strongly believe what you are proposing is the perfect replacement gear. Going up more would be too gappy, going up less and it would really not be worth it.

The question is, how many will buy it?

Personally, for me, it would be ideal - the only thing that would hold me back would be the installation... cause I'm not entirely clear on how to do it or how involved it is.
 
Coffee;134183 said:
I strongly believe what you are proposing is the perfect replacement gear. Going up more would be too gappy, going up less and it would really not be worth it.

The question is, how many will buy it?

Personally, for me, it would be ideal - the only thing that would hold me back would be the installation... cause I'm not entirely clear on how to do it or how involved it is.
Click to expand...

That makes two of us, the price range for the product is very good . If only I had a clue on how to install it myself.

Going for the mechanic route just for the sake of the over drive sounds a bit above my budget for now.
 
I'm a little puzzled... Considering 6th is a single 27 tooth gear, meshing with the 22 tooth countershaft, how do you just add teeth to the gear on the main shaft? Wouldn't the teeth have to get thinner, since you can't change the diameter of the gear?

And don't the teeth need to be the same thickness to properly mesh?

I can completely understand how a change could be made with a 2 gear set, but when only changing one gear on a set that is a fixed distance apart, I'm a little confused.

I'm not doubting you have it worked out, I just don't understand how. :confused:

For those wondering about how much effort is involved, it's most of the chapter on engine disassembly in the service manual, up to (but not including) the crankshaft disassembly. Personally, I could only see doing it if I needed to split the cases for another reason. Although, it would be nice to have the resulting benefits. :D
 
With these type of changes you are always changing a gear set. That is why the price is higher because you are paying for two gears and not just a single gear. It is the same for just changing 5th gear in the WR. A single gear is running in the $140 neighborhood and this is a mass produced item. The Motosportz price is very good with the small numbers they will be dealing with.

I can also understand the reluctance to tear into a good running motor. I always find the hardest part is removing the first bolt. Of course I really enjoy working on my bikes and it isn't all that hard for me.
 
wallybean;134259 said:
With these type of changes you are always changing a gear set. That is why the price is higher because you are paying for two gears and not just a single gear. It is the same for just changing 5th gear in the WR. A single gear is running in the $140 neighborhood and this is a mass produced item. The Motosportz price is very good with the small numbers they will be dealing with.

I can also understand the reluctance to tear into a good running motor. I always find the hardest part is removing the first bolt. Of course I really enjoy working on my bikes and it isn't all that hard for me.
Click to expand...

Ahh, yes. It is a 2 gear set. I didn't see the 6th countershaft gear in the parts listing because it is almost the last item (#66) in the listing. I should've noticed it in the blowup diagram. :doh:

Once again, the universe (at least my small understanding of it) has order. :D
 
wallybean;132728 said:
Here are your speed comparisons between the stock 6th gear and the Motosportz 6th for the TE's.

TE 450/510, 14x50 sprockets, 120/100 tire, @ 8000 rpm

Stock- 83 mph
Motosportz 6th- 93 mph

That makes a huge difference in real world rideability connecting trails and cruising on the road.
Click to expand...

The Motosportz 6th gear (speed/RPM) very closely matches what my 08TE510 does with 15/47 sprockets in 6th gear.



The following rpm/speed is what I get in 6th gear using the 15/47 sprockets:

5k RPM / 57.8 mph
6k RPM / 69.4 mph
7k RPM / 80.9 mph
8k RPM / 92.5 mph


With the TE510 running stock 13/47 sprockets and the Motosportz 6th gear set, the jump in mph from 5th gear to 6th, assuming constant rpm would be:

5k RPM 5th gear -44.4 mph to 57.8 mph in 6th gear (OEM jump-6mph)
6k RPM 5th gear -53.3 mph to 69.4 mph in 6th gear (OEM jump-7mph)
7k RPM 5th gear -62.1 mph to 80.9 mph in 6th gear(OEM jump-8 mph)
8k RPM 5th gear -71.0 mph to 92.5 mph in 6th gear(OEM jump-9mph)

Hopefully this makes sense and the stats were obtained from a Excel gear chart that was passed around a few years back for this bike. The OEM jump is the speed change from 5th to 6th using factory gearing with the 13/47 sprockets. You would be very close to doubling the speed jump under constant RPMs with the 6th gear set change. Can the TE series bikes handle that jump in gearing? It would be similar, per the gear chart, as going from 4th to 6th when using stock gearing and 13/47 stock sprockets.

edit:
If I can get the actual number of teeth on each Motosports 6th gear cogs I can put it into a gear chart and show that actual results (speed) for every rpm/gear combination.
 
I would love a taller 6th. However, I would not tear into the motor just to change the gear set

But..if the motor were ever out for any reason, I'd upgrade to the taller 6th for sure.

I will bet others feel the same way. So maybe the sales of the gears would be more of a steady trickle as folks find a need to get into the motors as they age.

Just one thought.

I really hope you proceed with the project. I will buy one for sure, just not right now.

Cheers
 
Received a pm with the number of teeth on the new gear cog set from Motosportz and plugged it into the gear calculator.

This is what the gear calculator indciates for speed/rpm in 6th gear.

08TE510 Stock 13/47 sprockets

4k RPM 40.1 mph
5k RPM 50.1 mph
6k RPM 60.1 mph
7k RPM 70.2 mph
8k RPM 80.2 mph
9k RPM 90.2 mph

with new Motosportz 6th gear and stock 13/47 sprockets

4k RPM 45.1 mph
5k RPM 56.4 mph
6k RPM 67.7 mph
7k RPM 78.9 mph
8k RPM 90.2 mph
9k RPM 101.5 mph

08TE510 Stock 14/47 sprockets

4k RPM 43.2 mph
5k RPM 54 mph
6k RPM 64.8 mph
7k RPM 75.6 mph
8k RPM 86.3 mph
9k RPM 97.1 mph

with new Motorsportz 6th gear and stock 14/47 sprockets

4k RPM 48.6 mph
5k RPM 60.7 mph
6k RPM 72.9 mph
7k RPM 85 mph
8k RPM 97.2 mph
9k RPM 109.3 mph

08TE510 Stock 15/47 sprockets

4k RPM 46.3 mph
5k RPM 57.8 mph
6k RPM 69.4 mph
7k RPM 80.9 mph
8k RPM 92.5 mph
9k RPM 104.1 mph

with new Motorsportz 6th gear and stock 15/47 sprockets

4k RPM 52 mph
5k RPM 65.1 mph
6k RPM 78.1 mph
7k RPM 91.1 mph
8k RPM 104.1 mph
9k RPM 117.1 mph



From my unscientific testing the gear chart is fairly accurate when verifying speed/rpm with a GPS on pavement but when the rear tire wears mph drops.

With a 15/47 and the Motosportz 6th gear cog set cruising at 75 mph would sure be easy on the engine for longivity and a downshift away from a long wheelie.:D
 
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