Octane Boost or race gas and pump?

[JPinNC]

Instead of Stabil, try StarTron enzyme fuel treatment. It makes a noticable difference in performance in my car. Stabilizes the fuel for up to 2 years. Even E10. The main thing is to try and stay away from E10 Ethanol fuel. I know it is getting hard to find straight gas. Don't take for granted that the pump gas you are getting is straight gas just because the pump isn't marked 10% Ethanol. Test it before use.

It is next to impossible to find gas in my area that doesn't contain 10% ethanol. I was using Stabil but recently switched to StarTron as well. My two-stroke does not like Stabil in the gas--runs rough. I seem to get better performance with StarTron. By the way, is it not true that a gas station is not required to report ethanol in their fuel as long as the amount is <=10%? This may vary state by state I guess.

 

[aya16]

I know you guys want to use the best in your bikes, but things like gas stabilizers, race gas, leaded gas, are causing you guys more problems
that you have to overcome later. If you don't race, and don't tear the engine down after every couple races, why do you need race gas with lead?

your stock bikes are designed to run on pump gas. You two stroke guys, buy 5 gallons of pump gas, bring a two gallon empty gas can to your ride,
and only mix two gallons at a time for your rides, when your done for the day toss the leftover gas in your trucks tank.
The four stroke guys its even easier, pump gas, then use the rest in the truck.

My 2t gas in my bikes tank, that doesn't get used up, becomes camp fire starter fluid, if I don't go ride in a month or so again.

Point is why do we need stabilizer's in our gas if we don't store it? why do we need race gas, if we don't race?
Mike

 

[Vinduro]

What you are not addressing is that E10 Ethanol / Gasohol is terrible for your bike. It eats all rubber and plastic components, Corrodes metals and starts going bad in as little as 3 weeks. Nobody is endorsing leaded fuels. We just want non ethanol fuels. Product like Startron does that in a small way. It still eats rubber carb parts , engine seals and corrodes. But at least it doesn't gunk up your carb in as little as a month.

 

[lankydoug]

I know you guys want to use the best in your bikes, but things like gas stabilizers, race gas, leaded gas, are causing you guys more problems
that you have to overcome later. If you don't race, and don't tear the engine down after every couple races, why do you need race gas with lead?

your stock bikes are designed to run on pump gas. You two stroke guys, buy 5 gallons of pump gas, bring a two gallon empty gas can to your ride,
and only mix two gallons at a time for your rides, when your done for the day toss the leftover gas in your trucks tank.
The four stroke guys its even easier, pump gas, then use the rest in the truck.

My 2t gas in my bikes tank, that doesn't get used up, becomes camp fire starter fluid, if I don't go ride in a month or so again.

Point is why do we need stabilizer's in our gas if we don't store it? why do we need race gas, if we don't race?
Mike

When jetted properly 91 pump does not have enough octane to run without detonation. 95 octane is not available so I mix 110 with 91. As for the Stabil, my fuel does sit in the garage in cans so I use it as a preventive measure.

 

[aya16]

What you are not addressing is that E10 Ethanol / Gasohol is terrible for your bike. It eats all rubber and plastic components, Corrodes metals and starts going bad in as little as 3 weeks. Nobody is endorsing leaded fuels. We just want non ethanol fuels. Product like Startron does that in a small way. It still eats rubber carb parts , engine seals and corrodes. But at least it doesn't gunk up your carb in as little as a month.

I know all the talk about ethanol, and its effects on fuel lines and rubber parts in the carb, Really though, the rubber parts in our bikes are alcohol resistant. Same as our cars.
the rubber fuel line is only a few inches long and gets destroyed faster from being out in the weather. I buy like 5 foot sections of hose for under ten bucks to change as needed.

I do run my bikes dry, after a ride, by shutting off the fuel valve, but I have been doing that for 45+ years. I know it feels like the right thing to do, as far as
running race gas /and or stabilizers, but I run mostly older bikes 96 up, all I change is the gas line from the tank to the carb, every once in awhile. Again, I have been doing that
since before leaded gas was taken away. Don't have any problems with carb gunk, even with a bike that sits for a year or more. I agree though I won't use gas more than a month old Ill drain the tank before a new ride if the gas is old.

As far as detonation, I have not run into that problem with pump gas. I don't store anymore gas, than enough for my lawn mower, all the extra gas, after a ride goes in my truck.

I'm not saying some of you guys are not experiencing detonation, But using av gas, race fuel, and other means to boost the power of your bikes doesn't seem worth the
trouble to me, by going with a larger motor with less compression, will give way better results.

I do remember a few times in my younger days of guys swearing on av gas, and that is all they ran in their bikes, I have seen the holes in their pistons, and a few pistons and rods going through the cases too. It also seemed that the guys that ran av gas, were also pushing their bikes harder than most too.

This is just food for thought. If running mixtures of race gas and pump gas makes people feel better, than do it. I can't see where it hurts anything
except the lead, were the modern bikes are not designed to run with lead anymore.

I won't just poopoo what you guys wrote without some pointers, so here they are

1. Buy gas from gas stations that do a lot of bizz, that way the gas doesn't sit in the storage tanks long.

2. alcohol wicks moisture from the air, and that will wash your cylinders of oil, as well as water wont compress, so it's hard on the engine.
every time you ride, buy fresh gas.

3. gas tank vent lines, buy the more expensive kind that have a one way valve in the line, even if your gas cap has that already

4. don't throw those empty race gas, 5 gallon cans in the camp fire, well, be about a hundred yards away when you do.

Mike

 

[Vinduro]

Your motorcycle and as well as cars may have alcohol resistant materials , it still effects them with clogged carbs and injectors. The Resistant material is not alcohol proof. It just deteriates more slowly. Check with your local car and motorcycle mechanics and ask how many fuel issue problems they have these days. Also running AvGas straight is not a good idea. That is why I blend with several gallons non ethanol gas or a gallon of the cheapest race gas I can get.

 

[lankydoug]

I know all the talk about ethanol, and its effects on fuel lines and rubber parts in the carb, Really though, the rubber parts in our bikes are alcohol resistant. Same as our cars.
the rubber fuel line is only a few inches long and gets destroyed faster from being out in the weather. I buy like 5 foot sections of hose for under ten bucks to change as needed.

I do run my bikes dry, after a ride, by shutting off the fuel valve, but I have been doing that for 45+ years. I know it feels like the right thing to do, as far as
running race gas /and or stabilizers, but I run mostly older bikes 96 up, all I change is the gas line from the tank to the carb, every once in awhile. Again, I have been doing that
since before leaded gas was taken away. Don't have any problems with carb gunk, even with a bike that sits for a year or more. I agree though I won't use gas more than a month old Ill drain the tank before a new ride if the gas is old.

As far as detonation, I have not run into that problem with pump gas. I don't store anymore gas, than enough for my lawn mower, all the extra gas, after a ride goes in my truck.

I'm not saying some of you guys are not experiencing detonation, But using av gas, race fuel, and other means to boost the power of your bikes doesn't seem worth the
trouble to me, by going with a larger motor with less compression, will give way better results.

I do remember a few times in my younger days of guys swearing on av gas, and that is all they ran in their bikes, I have seen the holes in their pistons, and a few pistons and rods going through the cases too. It also seemed that the guys that ran av gas, were also pushing their bikes harder than most too.

This is just food for thought. If running mixtures of race gas and pump gas makes people feel better, than do it. I can't see where it hurts anything
except the lead, were the modern bikes are not designed to run with lead anymore.

I won't just poopoo what you guys wrote without some pointers, so here they are

1. Buy gas from gas stations that do a lot of bizz, that way the gas doesn't sit in the storage tanks long.

2. alcohol wicks moisture from the air, and that will wash your cylinders of oil, as well as water wont compress, so it's hard on the engine.
every time you ride, buy fresh gas.

3. gas tank vent lines, buy the more expensive kind that have a one way valve in the line, even if your gas cap has that already

4. don't throw those empty race gas, 5 gallon cans in the camp fire, well, be about a hundred yards away when you do.

Mike

The pump gas I buy has no alcohol in it. I mix it with race fuel strictly for the octane improvement. If I could not buy pump fuel without alcohol I would use 100% race fuel. With straight 91 octane (no alcohol) pump gas my WR250 will detonate unless I leave it jetted on the rich side and if I do that I have to buy a plug every two or three rides, plus it doesn't run as good or start as easy as a lean mean machine on race fuel. As far as the lead goes wether you like it or not lead is beneficial to a competition engine. It's true that engines are designed to get by without it but it still is a plus if it's in the fuel.

 

[aya16]

There must be something to running race gas, every H&H I go to, the pits all have the blue cans. But my seven bikes I have, haven't had any of
the issues you guys are talking about, in all the years I have owned them. My wife's car (she drives 200 miles a day) has over 380,000 miles on it
and still going strong, with only transmission, and coil issues over its life time.

I do run my bikes a little fat in the jetting, but I don't have anything less than a 200cc bike except the pit bike, so power isn't an issue for me.

But like I said if it makes people feel better, and the get better performance, fill'er up.

running lead in a newer car will kill the cats, quick. Running lead in a bike, will form tiny balls of lead, on the valve stems and faces,
pistons and exhaust outlet, as well as the spark plug. This will rob power over time. There is some advantage, the valves will get a bit of a cushion
as they open and close. I don't think it will hurt a 2t much, but can't see any benefit either for a 2t, other than a bit of an octane boost.

But really I don't really have any experience with using race gas, so The guys that use it and love it have more to say about it than I do.


Mike

 

[Vinduro]

I would be upset if my Leaded Avgas / race gas / non ethanol pump gas (MoGas) , killed my cats. They keep me warm on cold nights.

 

[HUSKYnXJnWI]

I would be upset if my Leaded Avgas / race gas / non ethanol pump gas (MoGas) , killed my cats. They keep me warm on cold nights.

Yea now they are giving cats away with huskys

, I put it in a box in the garage... might as well be a mouser. I felt good about giving it a home- even though Sarah McLaughlin annoys me.

 

[aya16]

Its finding tiny balls that concerns me........

 

[Vinduro]

Its finding tiny balls that concerns me........

Mine are nuetered .

 

[aya16]

Mine are nuetered .

Mine keep getting smashed, when riding my bike, you seem to have found an answer to that problem.......
heck Im not going to have any kids anyway.
Mike

 

[Picklito]

This is an interesting thread. There is certainly lots of misunderstanding and some just plain voodoo surrounding fuel and oil. Wish I were an expert!
As I read through this post, though, I think some of us are referring to 4 strokes and some to 2 strokes. I'd bet the OP, Mr. Highdez, is referring to 2 strokes (?) considering that he's building up a super trick and super secret 430 smoker!!!

My own observations over (way too many) years are that:

1. I have several bikes so some of them sit for a long time between rides. Sometimes I drain the gas. Sometimes... I get lazy.
2. The premix bikes almost never mess up the carbs when sitting. They just start and run.
3. I know some 2-stroke oils claim to have fuel stabilizer in them, but I've wondered if the mixed oil itself is also somehow protective. Seems to be so, regardless of whether the oil MFG claims a stabilizer or not.
4. The kids are growing and don't ride their little Yamahas (ttr90, ttr125) nearly as often as they used to. For reasons I can't explain, those Yammies will grow an awful green goo in the carbs and plug the jets up tight... unless there's some Sta-Bil in it. I usually have to disassemble the carbs, clean everything, and start over if I forget to put some in. Hate that. Not seeing that with premix bikes. Weird.
5. Never tried other brands because the Sta-Bil seems to work. Certainly there are other good ones.
6. If I know I'm gonna use all the gas I leave the Sta-Bil out and it seems to run the same.
7. The octane's got to be right for the motor. It can be too high or too low. There is a sweet spot. Just throwing octane and its $$$ at a motor may not be what it needs.
8. My own (mostly stock) 2 strokes "don't quite" get enough octane from the California pump 91. Close, but not quite. They will knock when pushed, and my jetting has to compensate for this, rather than for a good clean burn.
9. The alcohol that California is now putting in the pump fuel has not seemed to be an issue for me. I can't tell, by how the motor runs or by how the fuel sits over time, whether there's alcohol in the pump gas or not (and yes - I've had the green goo problem with and without alcohol).
10. I CAN tell about the octane: Mix in a little high octane stuff and the jetting can be dialed and the motors just run so good. I can't go back now. This was true before the alcohol and now with the alcohol (as I said - for some reason I'm just not noticing the alcohol) . Lately I've been buying a 100 octane unleaded and using 1 gallon 100 to 4 gallons 91 pump. This is admittedly not much of a bump, but it is clearly enough to matter.
11. Too much octane for the engine's burn characteristics DOES/WILL begin to be detrimental. The engines get harder to start, make lazy power, and seem to stall more at lowest RPM. My mostly stock motors don't run as well on straight 100 octane as they do on the lower mixture.
12. We ran leaded pump gas for YEARS before it was removed from the pumps. It worked fine. And I never had little balls!

This is merely my own experience!! But I've paid lots of attention because I LIKE IT when my motors run well. Again - good thread... Thanks!

 

[aya16]

Have been having a little fun here, I guess in a small way, we all want to wring out as much performance as we can from our machines.
hell when I was riding my minibike as a kid, I wanted to get more performance from that 3.5 hp Clinton engine, I took the muffler off
ran a straight 1/2 galvanized pipe, took the air cleaner off, then tried some experimenting with a can of that model airplane fuel
a couple teaspoons at a time mixed in my gas. Did it work? I don't know, but it was loud, blew fire out the pipe, and if it back fired
I burnt my crotch.

Maybe I should have just bolted on a 5 hp motor.
mike

 

[firecrackerkid]

[QUOTEIf we want more performance we should just get a bigger bike][/QUOTE]
Mike, did you see a pic of his bike? He can't get much bigger or more powerful than what he has.

ATK 700 Intimidator maybe?

 

[aya16]

[QUOTEIf we want more performance we should just get a bigger bike]

Mike, did you see a pic of his bike? He can't get much bigger or more powerful than what he has.



ATK 700 Intimidator maybe?

[/quote]

wow, didnt know any one made a big bore 2t, cant see where any one would want more power from that. interesting bike.
Mike

 

[OlderHuskyRider]

With that mix I do notice some increase in performance or smoothness- its hard to describe- its like the motor is just running smoother and stronger.

Wow, I had to wake this thread up and say, if anyone has a high mileage 08-10 310 450 510, and you feel like you are down on power a little and you hear something that sounds like chain slap, damn, get some octane boost and rule out detonation. I just started hearing some knocking on the way home from a trail ride so i put in some cheap octane booster today, 1 oz per gallon, and man, its like what HUSKYnXJnWI says above: smoother, stronger, more bottom end, because the bike is firing at the correct time and not before it's supposed to!! I'll be carrying octane boost in my trail bag and using it on fill-ups.

 

[ray_ray]

Wow, I had to wake this thread up and say, if anyone has a high mileage 08-10 310 450 510, and you feel like you are down on power a little and you hear something that sounds like chain slap, damn, get some octane boost and rule out detonation. I just started hearing some knocking on the way home from a trail ride so i put in some cheap octane booster today, 1 oz per gallon, and man, its like what HUSKYnXJnWI says above: smoother, stronger, more bottom end, because the bike is firing at the correct time and not before it's supposed to!! I'll be carrying octane boost in my trail bag and using it on fill-ups.

hummmm... That should inspire ~some of us to stay alive longer and keep riding ...hoping that one day we might find out something new and better for our bike ... Myself, I've been trying to stop over-breaking at most corners ...

I'll be on the look out for some cheap stuff also ... Hoping for results I can feel and maybe write about :0 )

 

[huskyfrk]

i avoid any fuel w ethenol, i can feel the benefit in throttle response from race gas, but my bike has a built motor with a octane hungry motor. 450 RR w a 13.6 to 1 CR. factory suggests 116 octane. runs so well i won't argue with the advice. plugs are clean, response is superb. starts awesome shuts off crisp and clean. when i look at the cost of tires for my motard, gas is cheap in comparison. and no way would i mix a ethenol fuel w race gas, the ethenol doesn't disappear. when i want good advice on fuel, i ask george. at uptite...