• 4 Stroke Husqvarna Motorcycles Made In Italy - About 1989 to 2014
     TE = 4st Enduro & TC = 4st Cross

  • Hi everyone,

    As you all know, Coffee (Dean) passed away a couple of years ago. I am Dean's ex-wife's husband and happen to have spent my career in tech. Over the years, I occasionally helped Dean with various tech issues.

    When he passed, I worked with his kids to gather the necessary credentials to keep this site running. Since then (and for however long they worked with Coffee), Woodschick and Dirtdame have been maintaining the site and covering the costs. Without their hard work and financial support, CafeHusky would have been lost.

    Over the past couple of weeks, I’ve been working to migrate the site to a free cloud compute instance so that Woodschick and Dirtdame no longer have to fund it. At the same time, I’ve updated the site to a current version of XenForo (the discussion software it runs on). The previous version was outdated and no longer supported.

    Unfortunately, the new software version doesn’t support importing the old site’s styles, so for now, you’ll see the XenForo default style. This may change over time.

    Coffee didn’t document the work he did on the site, so I’ve been digging through the old setup to understand how everything was running. There may still be things I’ve missed. One known issue is that email functionality is not yet working on the new site, but I hope to resolve this over time.

    Thanks for your patience and support!

Need Help Timing 2009 SMR 510

banana944

banana944

Husqvarna
AA Class
I really just can't catch a break with this thing. When replacing my stator, I figured it was a good time to add the RR water pump. Pulled the cover and remove the nut holding the impeller. Was trying to work the impeller off the shaft when it pull the shaft with it and threw off my timing.

So I went to this thread and set my timing. I followed these procedures correctly as far as I know. I set the engine to TDC using a piece of brake line down the plug hole. Set the double dimple marks to TDC on the V notch in the head. Then installed the cames as outlined. http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/foolproof-cam-timing.3108/page-2

I cycled the motor over by hand a few times and felt no interference. Fired it up, and now it is making some noises :( I'm praying that my timing is just off. I would not say that the noise is like a bent valve. But didn't give it a good listen, once I heard noise I shut it down. Took the valve cover off, and the waterpump cover. No signs of the impeller rubbing against the new RR cover or anything obviously wrong under the valve cover.

My cam positions: The exhaust cam is not at a similar angle to the intake cam. This picture is taken with the double dimple mark set at TDC.
244cpkj.jpg


Now a couple things in that thread are making me wonder. 1st is I am wondering if this is the same procedure for the 08+ bikes. I wonder this because my cam positions when complete do not look the same. 2nd thing that is weird to me, is that on my cam gears, they both say "IN". I have seen other pictures of cams and the exhaust side will say "EX" and the intake side "IN". What good are the marks on the front cam gears? Anything I should look for there. Because the link posted above utilizes the gear marks on the backside.
 
In this picture, I circled the front timing marks. I did not use these marks to time the engine. I followed the instructions as outlined in the linked thread. But what is strange is that, the mark on the intake side is about level with the surface of the head. On the exhaust side, that mark is much higher, but if that mark were to be position level with the head, it would seem that it would bring the cam lobes into a similar angle as the intake side. Again, both my cam gears are marked "IN".


20a6t6a.jpg
 
Thanks, I was referencing the workshop manual as I was doing the work. I will be headed back to my shop today after work. But I am almost certain I have performed the procedure correctly. I double/tripled checked it before I put the valve cover on. Maybe my noise is coming from somewhere else. Again, the bike fired right up without hesitation.

Another note to add. When I removed the tensioner, I reset it. When I tried to install it the way it came out, it was too long. Once I installed the spring and bolt, I could hear it clicking back out.
 
Looks like you have an exhaust cam that has been stamped like its an intake cam. The lobe ramps look OK, so I think that it is really an exhaust cam that has been mis-stamped. Did it run OK just before this current repair?

the dimple mark on the exhaust cam is WAY off in your pic, see my pic below, you can even see the EX mark on the exhaust cam.

HuskyWPcamGearDimple.jpg
 
You'll need to position the cams as shown in the pic. Make sure the double dimple on the impeller gear is exactly on the V mark. The cams can be be 1 tooth off from what this pic shows and the bike will still start and run without noise, but it will either not idle right or not run great. But there wont be any damage, I know, because I had a 2010 that I had several times that I was 1 tooth off with the dimples.

DSCF5105.jpg
 
OlderHustyRider thanks alot for your input. Bike ran fine before my stator issue and now this. What is very weird about my exhaust cam is that the gear is stamped "IN", but on the shaft itself it is mark "EXH" and of course it has the decompression. So maybe a mix up at the factory on the cam gear and maybe thats why the alignment is off? I used the method in the link above to time the gears but it uses the marks on the backside. I lined them up, walked the cam down into position, and double checked everything.

Did you reference the front timing marks when timing your engine? Even the service manual uses the marks on the back of the gears. But it is odd to me that the marks on the front of the cams are not level with the head. And the angle of the lobes really makes me think the exhaust side is not correct. From the pictures I have seen the lobes, should be pointing at each other in the slope similar to the pitch of a roof.

I will get some more pictures tonight.
 
I guess what would be good to know, is that on a properly timed bike at TDC, are the marks on the front of the cam gears level with the surface of the head?
 
banana944 said:
Thanks, I was referencing the workshop manual as I was doing the work. I will be headed back to my shop today after work. But I am almost certain I have performed the procedure correctly. I double/tripled checked it before I put the valve cover on. Maybe my noise is coming from somewhere else. Again, the bike fired right up without hesitation.

Another note to add. When I removed the tensioner, I reset it. When I tried to install it the way it came out, it was too long. Once I installed the spring and bolt, I could hear it clicking back out.
Click to expand...



Was the CCT installed and putting tension on the cam chain when you installed the cams?
 
banana944 said:
Did you reference the front timing marks when timing your engine? Even the service manual uses the marks on the back of the gears. But it is odd to me that the marks on the front of the cams are not level with the head. And the angle of the lobes really makes me think the exhaust side is not correct. From the pictures I have seen the lobes, should be pointing at each other in the slope similar to the pitch of a roof.

I will get some more pictures tonight.
Click to expand...

By "front" do you mean left side of bike? My pic above showed how I was using white paint on the gear and a scratch mark on the cam chest, that's when I saw the dimple mark on the EX cam on the left side, and it is where it is supposed to be for "close to" correct timing, the dimple can actually be 1 tooth off and be a little below or a little above the plane of the cam chest edge.
 
Yes the CCT was installed.

By front, I mean from left side of the bike, yes. I used the marks on the back side (as seen from right of bike) as is described in the manual and the thread.

I will see about adjusting it using the front marks.
 
banana944 said:
Yes the CCT was installed.

By front, I mean from left side of the bike, yes. I used the marks on the back side (as seen from right of bike) as is described in the manual and the thread.

I will see about adjusting it using the front marks.
Click to expand...


I do not think you are gonna be able to use the left side dimple on the exhaust cam to time it. From your previous pic, the cam lobes look very close to being right (maybe 1 tooth off) but the left side dimple is WAY off where it should be, supporting my theory that the left side stamping is wrong.
 
I tend to agree. If it was truely that far off it would either not run or bend a valve. Maybe the source of the noise is somewhere else.

Anything particular to look for when installing the exhaust cam in relation to the decompressor?
 
For anyone who is following along in this thread. I found a good video that is in French that shows the timings marks we are referencing.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6dcRVFIkqI

At 0:17 he has the double dimple timing mark set at what would be TDC. At 0:40 he shows the alignment marks that need to mesh together on the intake cam. At 0:48 he shows the alignment marks that need to mesh together on the exhaust cam.

I am almost certain I have this correct. Will get more info tonight and hopefully find the source of the noise.
 
So no good news to report this morning. Messed with the bike some more last night. I had a thought on my drive to my shop.

Before I started all this work I attempted to drain the coolant from the motor. I poked around, and removed what I thought was a drain plug on the front of the jug (bolt with a copper washer). No coolant came out, figured I guessed wrong and didn't think much of it. Put the bolt back it. What it really was, was the bolt that holds the left side timing chain guide in place. Now I don't know if the chain guide moved its position or not when i removed the bolt. So first thing I did was remove that bolt again and make sure the guide was in the right position.

My timing marks were spot on, but I started the procedure over again anyways. Got it all buttoned up once again, fired it up, still making a knocking noise.

Dropped the oil to find it had mixed with coolant. Great. Hopefully it is due to the water pump seal since I have been messing with the shaft a whole bunch. Not sure what else it could be since my hands haven't been anywhere else on the motor. I removed the stator to make sure there was nothing going on there with my newly installed unit, it looked fine.

So at this stage, I still have the knocking noise and now mixed coolant. It fires up pretty effortlessly and seems to run fine. I have not let it run very long at any point. But still not convinced it is a bent valve issue. My next test will to be checking valve clearance, and if one is way wide I will know it is likely bent. But know thinking maybe it has something to do with that chain guide, maybe a piece broke off? I had a bore scope camera but could not get a very good look down the lower cam chain area. The borescope was a little big to fit in the spark plug hole, but from what I was able too see, I did not see any obvious witness marks from a valve on the piston.

Anything particular to look at the auto-decompression unit that could cause noise?
 
You need to check to make sure that the TDC timing mark on the cam gear is matched with true TDC of the crank/piston. Pull the spark plug, put the bike in 5 gear, get the cam gear TDC mark on the v mark, then stick a straw in the plug hole, bump the rear wheel with your left hand while holding the straw, go forwards and then backwards, just a tiny amount. If the piston moves up or down either direction, the cam gear is in the chain wrong. Make sure both cam chain sliders are correctly in place and tensioned.
 
Was the cam chain ever off of the big gear or when you changed the water pump seal, was the cam gear sitting down in the well, possibly allowing the chain at the bottom to move a tooth?
 
Thanks for the response OHR. I mentioned in a previous post that I used a brake line down the hole to make sure I was at TDC. I had the cams out, and the stator off, so i could turn it incrementally by the nut on the flywheel.

OlderHuskyRider said:
If the piston moves up or down either direction, the cam gear is in the chain wrong. Make sure both cam chain sliders are correctly in place and tensioned.
Click to expand...

I am not sure I am following here, but would like to understand what you are saying. While turning the flywheel, obviously the gear on the crankshaft is driving the chain which is driving the central timing gear. Once I rotate the engine to TDC, verified with the brakeline, if I continue to rotate the engine in either direction, the piston will move up and down. This is the normal operation, and does not point to the gear being in the chain incorrectly?

I made sure that I have the left side chain slider in it's appropriate position, but there is no adjustment to that side correct? The only adjustment is the right side chain guide which is tensioned by the CCT.
 
OlderHuskyRider said:
Was the cam chain ever off of the big gear or when you changed the water pump seal, was the cam gear sitting down in the well, possibly allowing the chain at the bottom to move a tooth?
Click to expand...

Chain never came off the big gear, but its possible that it may have moved a tooth on the bottom gear. Though that should not have made much of a problem since I refound TDC with the brake line before aligning the cams.

Removing the flywheel would give me a good view of the gear/chain and a better look at the guides.
 
The piston at TDC means the crankshaft is at TDC. Its at this moment that you need to make sure that the double dimple is aligned with the V mark in the cam chest. The 2 things have to match, if the chain jumped a tooth at the bottom, behind the stator, the 2 things WILL NOT match and must be re-matched.
 
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