Motorcycle Training Pushed for Troops

[Fast1]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/military/2009-05-06-soldierriders_N.htm


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[Coffee]

I've been following this a bit, and saw an episode on 'super bikes' (tv show on speed tv) dedicated to the issue. I think it is a great idea

 

[Dieselox4]

First off let me start by saying I have been in the military for 16 years and have seen the results of the rest of my post.
This has been going on for years (about 12). It just started getting attention this past year due to the many deaths during off hours. There are two classes; Class 1 is a basic to cover all bikes and Class 2 is is called the Sport Bike class. They are only REQUIRED if stickering a bike to ride on base. Optional for those that don’t ride on base. Class 1 is mandatory for all who ride a bike. Class two is mandatory for all high performance bike and enduros.

I foresee these classes becoming mandatory for all military whether riding on base or not. They will simply keep your family members from claiming your military life insurance if you are found to not have completed this class and get killed in an accident.

I personally think this class is stupid. The idea and intentions are good but it does no good to counter act what the real problem is. Let me explain. Due to many military members getting injured and killed they made these classes mandatory. How it started is you get these young military members, (98% guys) about 18 to 22 years old who just move from home and haven’t been driving a car to long, let alone ride a high performance bike. They graduate from boot camp and get stationed in a nice sunny area. The cool thing to buy is a super huge and fast race bike. Not a car. So they go to one of these bike stealerships camped outside most military bases with a sign that reads, “Instant financing. E-1 and up”. In walks the young Service member with his first paycheck that mom doesn’t get. He’s never been on a bike, yet purchases a GSXR 750 or larger bike and drives it off the lot. Later that night he gets together with some other military members and they all cruise the local spots looking cool. Young stud is looking cool passing cars illegally, driving over 100mph around corners and through traffic. Eventually killing himself that night. I live around the largest military facilities in the world. Happens every night almost.

Here comes the military’s knee jerk reaction to fix the problem. Developed by some guy sitting behind a desk who wants to implement something to make himself look good. They develop this mandatory course. Good on them. But it doesn’t work. The class is a very basic riding class. Driving between cones, slow driving, etc… . Just basic maneuverability drills. My problem with these classes is that they don’t touch on the training that kills these kids. They don’t die driving slow weaving in and out of cones. They die from driving way beyond their 1 hour skills. 100+mph driving in and out of cars around corners at night etc… . We never read an article about a man with years of experience riding his 1200cc bike, doing the speed limit in the day losing control of his high performance bike, flying through the air for 200+ feet and hitting a truck in the oncoming lane. It’s always the latter past all extremes.

In my super expert extraordinaire analysis, they either need to put limits on ages to buy these bikes, (which won’t happen) or have the High performance bike class at a local area to accommodate a high speed track. Where they can actually perform the fast paced skills needed to drive these bikes. But don’t expect these kids to take such a low paced class and then not go out and drive these bike how they are made to drive. They aren’t teaching these kids how to drive 130mph around a corner between cars at night. That’s how they are dying. Not driving the speed limit.

Rant over.

Mike

 

[Dieselox4]

I do think it is a good idea. Just not properly implimented.

Mike

 

[Fast1]

have you taken either of the classes?

 

[Dieselox4]

Fast1 have you taken either of the classes?

No I have not taken either of them. Have you taken them? If you did, did you like it? Did you get anything out of it? Im always interested in what other military members and bases provide for training and support. I heard most of this is coming down from Navy and Marines who have the highest fatality rate of all services on bikes.

I have been boycoting them. I have never ridden my bikes on base. Im about to break down and take the basic course though so I can ride my Harley to work. Its almost finished. A few months ago, the CNO put out to all Navy commands that it was mandatory for all service members to write out on this formal document all owned bikes ridden on base, not ridden on base, registered and non registered motorcycles.

A lot of Navy commands are making new personnel sign Page 13's stating that they will not purchase bikes while at that command until they transfer. Im waiting for the military to ban motorcycle riding all together. I remember when some bases actually had trails and tracks open to service members.

Mike

 

[ioneater]

I've been in too long to try to enjoy mandatory fun. Youngsters are coming back from deployments with loads of cash, trying to catch up on everything they missed after being gone for 12-15 months and think they're invulnerable after going through hell while deployed and surviving. I'm taking an advanced riding coursed on a closed circuit track early in June because I know I could use the training. Probably wouldn't have forked over the money for it 20 yrs ago because I was invulnerable. Phase 2 sounds the most sensible. Either that or have insurance rates that REALLY put a hurt on a new rider that hasn't attended the appropriate training for the bike and experience but there would be ways around that.

Have a 44 yr old acquaintance who bought the hot rodded version of the Triumph Street Triple right before I bought the vanilla version. Well, he went on a fast paced ride last week to N. Cali and bit it big time, totaling the bike and fracturing a scapula. He was trying to impress the group he was riding with and lost talent on a corner. Is Darwin being cheated? I don't know......

I also believe when it's your time to cash out, there's nothing you can do about it.

This concludes my ramble

 

[HuskyT]

This isn't really news, at least not for Marines on Camp Pendleton. When I was there with Kilo 3/1 ( 1986 to 1989), I bought my first Interceptor at Oceanside Honda... E-1 and above gladly accepted.... the easiest purchase I had ever made.... 1987.... was not allowed to bring it on base until completing the on base Motorcycle Safety Foundation course. The Marine Corps Gunny that ran it had a simple rule... pass with 100% or fail . It was held during regular training hours. Great course and would take it all over again.

Our Lt Colonel (Battalion Commander) took it to another level... He made every Marine take it once a year regardless of how long you had been riding. He made us take it during / on our time. If he or anyone in the Battalion ever caught you or even saw or heard of any of his Marines doing something stupid, on or off base, or saw you riding without boots and a helmet and a reflective vest and jeans you, again, on or off base, you would immediately be written up. If you got a ticket on base, you would be written up and spend the weekend digging holes and running up and down Horno Ridge behind our base with Gas Masks on .....for those of you that have never had to run up a hill in 90 to 100 degree weather with full combat gear and a Gas Mask on you are truly in for one of life's not so desirable experiences........Consequently we didn't have many problems. I took the course two years running and learned a lot and I have been riding all my life....

There was none of the "Top Gun" Tom Cruise without a helmet military riding a Ninja off into the California Sunset..... Helmet laws were not yet in place in California but were required of all Marines.....that simple rule saved my life......I am one Marine that was saved by the rules....

T

 

[NothingClever]

But with your experience and knowledge that the American taxpayer pays your salary, I'm certain you won't simply post passive complaints to a civilian forum but rather you'll jump on board with your installation's efforts to train young riders & lead the way with your leadership skills developed from 16 years of service.

Right?

 

[Coffee]

But with your experience and knowledge that the American taxpayer pays your salary, I'm certain you won't simply post passive complaints to a civilian forum but rather you'll jump on board with your installation's efforts to train young riders & lead the way with your leadership skills developed from 16 years of service.

Right?

I'll assume you are referring to post #3, Dieselox4.

How is he supposed to respond to your post? Almost certainly your post will invoke a non-positive response of some kind based on the wording. I'm not sure what you think he should be doing... re-write Navel policy?

 

[NothingClever]

I'll assume you are referring to post #3, Dieselox4.

Your assumption was spot-on.

How is he supposed to respond to your post?

Dunno....we'll see. Hopefully my post makes him pause for a moment and think.

I'm not sure what you think he should be doing... re-write Navel policy?

To improve training for motorcycle riders on military or federal installations wouldn't require revision of Naval policy. Active participation and spirited leadership that most folks acquire after 16 years of service would do just fine .

 

[Dieselox4]

Sorry I haven’t been able to post back. I’m currently in NC doing a weekend DS ride and just now have had the time after packing up to get on here.

Coffee Quote:
Originally Posted by NothingClever
But with your experience and knowledge that the American taxpayer pays your salary, I'm certain you won't simply post passive complaints to a civilian forum but rather you'll jump on board with your installation's efforts to train young riders & lead the way with your leadership skills developed from 16 years of service.

Right?

I'll assume you are referring to post #3, Dieselox4.

How is he supposed to respond to your post? Almost certainly your post will invoke a non-positive response of some kind based on the wording. I'm not sure what you think he should be doing... re-write Navel policy?

Internet talk doesn’t bother me. I have thick skin.

And this isn’t meant to provoke an argument. If you want to argue you can always PM me.

NothingClever Dunno....we'll see. Hopefully my post makes him pause for a moment and think.

To improve training for motorcycle riders on military or federal installations wouldn't require revision of Naval policy. Active participation and spirited leadership that most folks acquire after 16 years of service would do just fine

I have thought about it and it comes up very frequently at my work. I am on board with it. Any training is better than none. They just need more. As a matter of fact, the very same people that run that training program for the base safety center go out to the commands to hold semi-annual Q&A before most major holidays. The general stuff on "Drinking and driving, Driving while sleepy, taxi's when at an establishment serving alcohol, etc...". Then they talk about the safety programs that are in place where military members can go for issues and or training. The motorcycle training class is one of those. Questions that I stated are always asked. There response to that is they are catering to the bare minimum riders ability. They cannot asses every student’s ability and tailor the program to individual personnel. So they hit the most vulnerable, the young or new riders. Also, they state that they are mandated not to teach such high performance driving skills. Doing so shows that the military is basically saying its ok, or that the military member has been trained to perform such skills and they are backing the members ability by graduating the member from the class. Also that it is ok to break the law to performing these skills on the street. No the military isnt physically telling them its ok but that is what will be perceived because they are teaching it. Because you and I both know they will do these things on the street. They already do knowing full well what is legal and illegal. Its only common sense. So let’s say that they do teach those high performance skills. New guy buys a 750+cc something. Goes out in town tearing down a street, hits and kills someone. That someone’s family sues the military member and the government for millions of dollars because that service member was trained, (or poorly trained) by the military to perform those skills. Who cares that he was at fault do doing them in the wrong place. Or he kills himself and his parents sue the government for training him and condoning those skills. Because that is basically what the military taught him.

Unfortunately I do not run that program. I would love to. I would even due it for free. Training new people or introducing them to the sport of any kind of cycling is always fun. But you cannot do that. It is contracted out to private contractor companies that get paid by the military to solve problems and come up with training solutions. Then implement them. They are a very fine group. They always listen to every suggestion. Only they can’t implement all of them. Condoning and training in such advanced riding abilities isn’t on of them.

Your choices, (since I and many others have made many recommendations):

1. Hopefully you will understand that there is more to it than just changing a training or safety program.
2. You can offer to pay more taxes so the military can fund more days into the basic motorcycle training to improve their basic skills.
3. you can pay even more and suggest that the military rent a race track and hire professional riders that do all sorts of neat tricks to train them so they can perform these maneuvers on the local streets at the cost of safety to everyone, (which you know will happen).
4. (This kind of goes along with option 3), and pay more taxes if this option is chosen when someone sues the military for training them to perform for everyone’s enjoyment against the law.
5. ..... the list goes on.

You can write your congressman that you voted for and tell him you want me to teach the class and or run it. Or you can teach it taking onboard everyone’s suggestion.

The point is, that these have been written about in point papers, talked with the safety representatives and instructors that run and teach them, and written suggestions in the class critiques after every class is given.

I think the military should send me to a rally driving school. That way I can drift around corners really fast without stopping in my WRX. Would you pay for that please?

Any yes you do pay my salary. You also pay the salaries of the civilians that run that training program. You can write them. That’s option number 6. I have and will continue to voice these concerns. I can try to threaten them if you would like. I haven’t tried that yet.


ioneater has a great idea. Not everyone thinks they need that course. It sounds fun also.

I'm taking an advanced riding coursed on a closed circuit track early in June because I know I could use the training

Mike