FE/FC More Disappointment....

[Dirtdame]

I should have been writing a ride report today, with pictures of me, my bike, my friend and some great scenery....but instead I'm writing about another disappointing failure that made me scuttle the day's ride, after I drove 130 miles to get to the mountains....


I guess I'm not used to the ways of lithium batteries, but now I have been initiated. Sunday, I unloaded the 501 for a day of scenic adventures with my buddy KJ. We haven't seen each other since last autumn, and it was supposed to be a birthday celebration for me (a day early). After a bit of chatting and catching up, we suited up and prepared to warm up our bikes. I turned the key and listened to the fuel pump pressurizing, then hit the starter button. Three revolutions later, the engine came to a halt. And that was the end of my day.

I was perplexed, because the bike had been starting flawlessy, including last weekend. I loaded my bike back up, took off my riding gear and prepared to go home. At home, the battery showed 9.3 measly volts...not even enough to wave bye bye with. I suspected that lithium batteries run at a certain level right up to the end and drop off to nothing all in one swell foop, where as lead acid batteries start to lose their performance at a much slower and even rate, giving a warning ahead of time that they will go bad.

On my old 450, I could have swung out the old kickstarter and gotten the Kehein carburetor to deliver fuel to the engine. But I could only look at the 501, my heart sinking as silence prevailed.

I ordered a new lithium battery, and a charger that was matched to its needs, plus a micro charger to carry on the trail with me, so that this would never happen again. Bu t I am also wondering if I should just go to a lead acid battery. All my old lead acid batteries seemed to last 3 to 5 years before conking out, while this lithium one (that came stock in the bike) only lasted about a year and half. Short lived and rather expensive compared to lead acid batteries.
Anyway, I hope the new battery last longer than the original.

 

[Johnrg]

I went back to Yuasa on my Ducati. I had an EarthX in it for amost 4 yrs and then my voltage reg went out a few miles from home and took the battery with it quickly. Had to get a lift home with the bike. Decided the Yuasa was much less expensive and reliable for a long time so replaced it with that.

The Husky still has an EarthX and 2.5-3 yrs now (#3 in the Husky. #1 failed on day 1, #2 seemingly struggled at cold temps when I was in WY, so replaced it after 1-1.5 yrs or so). I should replace current one just in case.

So I would stay lead acid (reliable and slight warning before stranding you) unless you need the cranking boost or have to save weight. I have the BT 800 dual circuit and works well for la and li.​

The Micro Start looks interesting. I need all the added redundency I can get when out alone.

 

[Huskynoobee]

I've had an Earth X in my 449 for at least 5-6 years. It still does the job. But I recently dropped $300 on a new Harley Davidson lithium battery for the ol Electra Glide. I was sold by the holder to adapt it perfectly into the existing battery box.

It sure cranked the bike up nicely, but I've been too busy to take it out for a proper ride. Within 3 weeks it's dropped into voltage cutoff. Now I have to get a LiFe battery tender. Not really pleased.

 

[Crashaholic]

On my old 450, I could have swung out the old kickstarter and gotten the Kehein carburetor to deliver fuel to the engine. But I could only look at the 501, my heart sinking as silence prevailed.

I can imagine the heartache, or insane fury, finding out the battery is dead after arriving at the staging area.

I started riding in 1969 so I'm what one would call old school so, I would like to know what the #$&@ the logic is behind producing a cross country dirt bike without a kickstarter?

 

[Dirtdame]

I can imagine the heartache, or insane fury, finding out the battery is dead after arriving at the staging area.

I started riding in 1969 so I'm what one would call old school so, I would like to know what the #$&@ the logic is behind producing a cross country dirt bike without a kickstarter?

I think that it's because the fuel pump and injectors need a steady stream of voltage too, so a kickstarter might not do enough either. That would be my guess, anyway. You sure won't be able to bump start this sort of bike either.

 

[Dirtdame]

I've had an Earth X in my 449 for at least 5-6 years. It still does the job. But I recently dropped $300 on a new Harley Davidson lithium battery for the ol Electra Glide. I was sold by the holder to adapt it perfectly into the existing battery box.

It sure cranked the bike up nicely, but I've been too busy to take it out for a proper ride. Within 3 weeks it's dropped into voltage cutoff. Now I have to get a LiFe battery tender. Not really pleased.

Each MV Agusta that I have bought came with a lithium battery and a battery tender as standard equipment. The wiring harness is designed with the plug in an easy access spot under the seat. My dealer told me to be sure to always have my bike on the charger when I park it after every ride. I have never left my MV sitting for more than a day, without having it on the charger.

 

[Crashaholic]

At home, the battery showed 9.3 measly volts

I think that it's because the fuel pump and injectors need a steady stream of voltage too

Good point about the injectors and the fuel pump. However, if they're like automobiles I think the pump on these bikes would deliver more fuel than the engine needs in order to keep constant pressure at the injector at any RPM. The excess fuel would then be returned to the tank via a by-pass system. Maybe 9 volts would provide enough pressure to the injector to allow bump starting. If so the magneto/generator would then provide the required voltage.

 

[Crashaholic]

I have never left my MV sitting for more than a day, without having it on the charger.

I rode a Husaberg for a few years in the early 2000's and always had it on a battery tender. Never had a problem in that department. Good ole lead acid battery too.

Oh yeah, it had a kickstarter I don't recall ever using but it was nice knowing it was there.

 

[Dirtdame]

Good point about the injectors and the fuel pump. However, if they're like automobiles I think the pump on these bikes would deliver more fuel than the engine needs in order to keep constant pressure at the injector at any RPM. The excess fuel would then be returned to the tank via a by-pass system. Maybe 9 volts would provide enough pressure to the injector to allow bump starting. If so the magneto/generator would then provide the required voltage.

I think it would take a pretty long bumpstart on a steep paved incline to get a new technology bike to fire up and run.

 

[Teambowles]

Kid left the key on the 501 battery dead. Tried bump starting it and I don't think it can be done. We tried several times but wouldn't fire. New battery was $100.

 

[Dirtdame]

Kid left the key on the 501 battery dead. Tried bump starting it and I don't think it can be done. We tried several times but wouldn't fire. New battery was $100.

Out of desperation, my friend and I tried to bumpstart mine too, but to no avail. All the people that have related their "dead battery" stories to me didn't have any luck either.

 

[Big Timmy]

If the battery is just too low to crank the bike over but still enough to activate the dash, fuel pump and ECU a bump start is simple, Just get it rolling hit the starter button momentarily to activate the ECU and drop your ass as you would bump starting anything else.

Not that I needed to cause the batteries were too low, but I have bump started both my '15 FE501 and my BMW G450X down a small hill or slope by doing this when riding many times after taking a breather or rest stop while out riding.

I might add that I go 270+ with all my gear on, It will skid but my fat ass will make the wheel turn and it will start.

 

[Dirtdame]

If the battery is just too low to crank the bike over but still enough to activate the dash, fuel pump and ECU a bump start is simple, Just get it rolling hit the starter button momentarily to activate the ECU and drop your ass as you would bump starting anything else.

Not that I needed to cause the batteries were too low, but I have bump started both my '15 FE501 and my BMW G450X down a small hill or slope by doing this when riding many times after taking a breather or rest stop while out riding.

I might add that I go 270+ with all my gear on, It will skid but my fat ass will make the wheel turn and it will start.

I go maybe 160 all geared up. The bike just skidded and never turned.

 

[ptkatoomer]

Maybe this is a dumb question, but could you have tried jumping it from your car? Would it have to be something special for the lithium battery?

 

[Dirtdame]

Maybe this is a dumb question, but could you have tried jumping it from your car? Would it have to be something special for the lithium battery?

I didn't want to try. The micro jumper that I just bought was designed specifically to be safe for lithium batteries.

 

[lankydoug]

The last 3 rides I've been on with my usual 3-5 riding buddies there has been a battery or starter failure on all three rides. I make it a point to kick start my 2017 TM en300 and ride a few circles around my buddies while they get their jump starter boxes out of their back packs or while they swap batteries in an attempt to do trailside maintenance. One of my friends has spent over $1,500 on GASGAS e-start parts and batteries in less that a year on a brand new bike, he finally gave up and bought a different bike. The guy who bought it from him had an e-start problem on his 2nd ride. I'll stick with a carburetor and a kick starter for a few more years.

Lithium does seem to fail without warning. If there's enough space for a lead battery that's what I'd run if I were you.

 

[SSPhoto]

243 hours, over 13000 kilometres including a trip to Alaska and still on the original battery in my 2017 FE450. I've never put in on a charger. I follow the cold startup procedure religiously (and started it at -3 C/28 F on Saturday after sitting unridden for a week) and take the battery out in the winter and follow the storage instructions in the manual. Lithium batteries work great, with proper (minimal) care. Take the key out when not riding to ensure the fuel pump doesn't stay powered during storage, and follow the cold start up procedure. If you're paranoid, get a micro start as a backup. It's cheaper insurance than installing a kickstart. I switched to lithium batteries in 2011 and haven't looked back. Shorai are the best in my opinion, but the stock earthX battery in my 2017 has proven very reliable.

 

[Dirtdame]

243 hours, over 13000 kilometres including a trip to Alaska and still on the original battery in my 2017 FE450. I've never put in on a charger. I follow the cold startup procedure religiously (and started it at -3 C/28 F on Saturday after sitting unridden for a week) and take the battery out in the winter and follow the storage instructions in the manual. Lithium batteries work great, with proper (minimal) care. Take the key out when not riding to ensure the fuel pump doesn't stay powered during storage, and follow the cold start up procedure. If you're paranoid, get a micro start as a backup. It's cheaper insurance than installing a kickstart. I switched to lithium batteries in 2011 and haven't looked back. Shorai are the best in my opinion, but the stock earthX battery in my 2017 has proven very reliable.

I live in a fairly warm climate, don't leave the key in my bike ever, follow the advice of the service tech at the local dealer for any cold weather starting I might encounter, not paranoid for getting the micro start....I just don't like being surprised and disappointed after driving 130 miles, only to find that I am going to waste even more gas to just drive 130 miles back home without a nice ride that had been planned.

 

[Motosportz]

I like the Antigravity batteries with the restarter. Has been good to me so far but yes, these LI batteries are tricky and not as reliable as the old lead acid batteries.

 

[MotoXImage]

I carry a capacitor just in case the battery dies. It won't start it, but it will provide enough volts to get it bumped or kickstarted.
If your bike has a Recluse Auto Clutch, use a 4mm allen and turn the slave freeplay screw back to the starting point. Also make sure to count how many turns it took so you can reset it after the bike is running.