Kicking the 500s

[Abelma]

I have an '84 CR500, which I was having some trouble starting a while back . This could have been due to the 44mm carb (off an '82.5 CR500) that I had fitted to it, which also had some wear in the slide . The slower velocity of air through the larger carb makes them harder to start , which is one of the reasons a lot of guys recommend going to a 38mm Mikuni on the 500 Huskys. I ended up changing the primary drive ratio on my 500, by using the clutch basket and primary gear off an aircooled 510 fourstroke, making it a lot easier to start. Because the 510 has more teeth on the ring-gear of the clutch basket (& less on the primary gear) , the piston moves further with each stroke of the kickstarter. The flywheel also spins faster, giving a fatter spark . It also though, requires more force to move the kickstart lever. You also have to change your final gearing to compensate for the lower primary gearing ratio. The 510 clutch basket has the same size gear on the back, that matches with the kickstart idler gear, as the 500 two stroke clutch basket.
I want to experiment further , by using the clutch off a 610 Husky which has even more teeth on the basket ring-gear (but also needs the 610 clutch cover for it to fit). I think that the 610 clutch hub is held on by a nut , rather than a circlip like the earlier models, so some machining or modification may be required. The 610 clutch experiment may have to be used in conjunction with a Maico 490 style decompresser, as shown in the attached image . I found this picture while browsing a French website (Le Guide Vert), which I think had been done by a Canadian guy in Quebec.

Hi, where I can find that aluminium intake manifold?
Thx

 

[husky-parts.com]

http://www.husqvarna-parts.com/catalog/item/3736880/4885100.htm

 

[Abelma]

http://www.husqvarna-parts.com/catalog/item/3736880/4885100.htm

Thank you.

Looks like the replacement for the WR250/84 right ?

 

[Husky500evo]

I was going to suggest the 250 style adaptor, that will bolt onto the 500 cylinder , like this one that recently ended on ebay : http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...0309542977&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK:MEWAX:IT.
But it will only accept the Mikuni rubber manifold to suit the 38mm carb . It is good to know about the one shown by Husky-Parts, as it is made for a rubber manifold to suit the standard 40 or 44mm carbs that came out on the 500s.

 

[Abelma]

I was going to suggest the 250 style adaptor, that will bolt onto the 500 cylinder , like this one that recently ended on ebay : http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...0309542977&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK:MEWAX:IT.
But it will only accept the Mikuni rubber manifold to suit the 38mm carb . It is good to know about the one shown by Husky-Parts, as it is made for a rubber manifold to suit the standard 40 or 44mm carbs that came out on the 500s.

Ok!..So, that rubber part it is not available as spare part for the Husky-Parts intake manifold assembly ?...That is something to know, because if the rubber break, it has to get the all assembly ? Already is not cheap

 

[husky-parts.com]

Ok!..So, that rubber part it is not available as spare part for the Husky-Parts intake manifold assembly ?...That is something to know, because if the rubber break, it has to get the all assembly ? Already is not cheap

Rubber Mikuni part is readily available. 500 billet Intake is just like the set-up for a 250/430, a 2 peice design

 

[fran...k.]

This thread is diverging from where it sounds like in the title.



I have been told the stock intake rubber boot (the one referred in prior posts) for the 40 (and the 44 since it is just a bored 40 body) is unavailable in the stock form. Instead of finding a manufacturer to make another like one there are available "billet" (aluminum blocks but not cast or extruded?) which bolt to the cylinder and also to a generic rubber carb boot snowmobiles and perhaps other applications use. These ones I call generic often are Micuni maybe not any generic but all aren't labeled Micuni in catalogues. Like stated above the bolt spacing for the two bolt rubber carb boots vary by dimension. You thread an aluminum rod and loctite it into the hole and drill a hole if you really want to or make your own block might also be a possibility. Or you could try and find a manufacturer to make the rubber part more like the original and market it. There is some theory about how far back to space the carb you could play with but I digress. If you get the set up for the bigger carb you can build up say a Klein pwk 39 with two part gas tank repair paste and using a lathe and a large live center sculpt it to fit into the rubber. Such carb is just a little too big to forced into the 38 mm rubber carb boot. You still have to make it a little longer if using the dual shock air boxes. Maybe I should state make it longer to get to same length as original one. The cagiva packaged original replacement rubbers for the water cooled ones seem still available. When something is unavailable that doesn't necessarily mean some aren't on the shelf somewhere. Some folks seem price conscious others not so much so. From what I understand the British bike industry sold off the right to make parts. Though I kind of dropped out of the Norton scene you had the genuine Norton replacement and the cheap Indian imitation but amazing availability. Exactly what BMW is likely to do is a good topic for another thread.

Fran

 

[Abelma]

Rubber Mikuni part is readily available. 500 billet Intake is just like the set-up for a 250/430, a 2 peice design

But I cannot see the rubber part offered in the web site ? Or where is it to know the price. Thx

 

[fran...k.]

But I cannot see the rubber part offered in the web site ? Or where is it to know the price. Thx

The one for the 420 auto which is the 38mm micuni cost just under $20 from the smowmobile catalog last time I got one though it was a while ago. It ended up being genuine Micuni. The one for the 40 mm micuni well can't say. The stock reed cage for that model used the generic or micuni part not a brand specific boot like the 500. I cover those stock boots with silicone or something like that. I am on the second one and don't need another assembly. They do crack but until the cracking is where the carb attaches and I don't see the shrinkage cracks in the rubber going through I run it though most folks here probably have less bikes but more showroom looking ones.

Fran

 

[husky-parts.com]

But I cannot see the rubber part offered in the web site ? Or where is it to know the price. Thx

The 40/44mm Mikuni Intake manifold is not listed on the web site yet (along with hundreds of other parts) I have them in stock $33.00 just e-mail me

 

[Old Geezer]

I had the tall alum. straight kicker on my 83-500XC.....I'm working on a small battery overide to put on my bikes so I only have to kick them hard enough to make compression, battery will supply voltage and ignition will still trigger it, engines starts switch back to magneto. Maybe by spring.

Were you ever able to get this battery system working, to aid in starting? My 'ol 500XC has taken a back seat to my other dirt bikes, being such a bear to start. Your idea sounds interesting.

 

[tommie d]

Here is a nice little video on: How to start your Big Bore Motocross Bike.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FamfgXMW9Mc

 

[fran...k.]

Hey Tommie d,

I watched your linked video. Note the statement about the engine being in general good condition and listen to the lack of engine noise just exhaust noise to the two bikes he starts. You might also notice the guy has tennis shoes or something of that type not real boots. To be honest I have been around bikes entering in hillclimb so you get a bunch of cr 500 and kx 500 all in one spot and many modified and must say somehow they kick through easier than the husqvarna. Not sure why but I sure won't get my bike started unles I kind of jump up in the air before kicking down and back, the guy here just kind of pushes hard on the lever.

 

[Old Geezer]

It seems that approach of blowing into the vent tube probably just pressurizes the floatbowl and forces gas up through the needle jet and into the throat of the carb...kinda pre-priming things. Worth a try, in any event.

 

[tommie d]

Hey Tommie d,

I watched your linked video. Note the statement about the engine being in general good condition and listen to the lack of engine noise just exhaust noise to the two bikes he starts. You might also notice the guy has tennis shoes or something of that type not real boots. To be honest I have been around bikes entering in hillclimb so you get a bunch of cr 500 and kx 500 all in one spot and many modified and must say somehow they kick through easier than the husqvarna. Not sure why but I sure won't get my bike started unles I kind of jump up in the air before kicking down and back, the guy here just kind of pushes hard on the lever.

Just a video I came across and thought it might be of interest to some on here. I don't have a problem starting my big bore, 77 390CR as it is mechanically sound and has a Bing carb on it, so I just tickle and don't have to blow.
Here is what people really need to think about: if your bike don't start in 4 or 5 kicks cold, you have mechanical problems as in low compression, fuel, ignition, or whatever and you need to fix your bike.

 

[Husq.fleet]

Just a video I came across and thought it might be of interest to some on here. I don't have a problem starting my big bore, 77 390CR as it is mechanically sound and has a Bing carb on it, so I just tickle and don't have to blow.
Here is what people really need to think about: if your bike don't start in 4 or 5 kicks cold, you have mechanical problems as in low compression, fuel, ignition, or whatever and you need to fix your bike.

My good friend who has been a bike mechanic/tuner-RD/racer since 1953 always says the same thing. He looked at my 500 piston, barrel and head and shook his head saying no wonder they are a pig to start, piston ports too short, squish is wrong and so on........

 

[racemx904]

starting my old 500...I start it like a 4 stroke..

go just past TDC and return to the top and push down slow till it stops then one good kick all the way through...she starts everytime....i kick it left footed siting on the bike...i actually do better lefty than righty...

I would rotate your kicker forward a little just make sure its not wanting to start engaging...should give you more throw

 

[fran...k.]

There are two kind of muscles fast twitch which sprinters have more of and the other kind which marathon runners have. I have seen folks just lean the bike over towards the kickstarter side and kick with the right leg standing on level ground. I need something higher to stand on. Once it is running and has stalled often I can start it straddling the bike. Not sure if the ratio of muscle fiber type in your leg effects starting these.

 

[silverstreakNZ]

so is the general consesus that the 82 (dogleg) kickstart or the later straight one is the one to have ?

i have a 82 cr500 and it has the dog leg one and i could kick start it with that . .motor was tired and no decomp . now have fresh engine and a decomp . stick with the dogleg or find a straight one ?

height isnt an issue . 6foot 3 and 220 lb

 

[jo360]

i would go with a modern straight and maybe fit a chinese cdi/coil set up for an easier start, i currently run a straight with the decomp and can start my 430 reliably but i have also changed out the carb, the 430 has been ported and is running the largest overbore (87.5mm) piston, my biggest concern was breaking the case area around the kicker the dog leg kicker places alot of horizontal leverage on the case/spline area and increases the chance of letting go.