FE/FC Is this a good stainless steel oil filter for my 2016 FE501S?

[Emig5m]

http://www.motosport.com/filguard-stainless-steel-oil-filter#reviews

If that's not a good brand can someone link me to something else. Also, any cons to using a reusable filter over the standard throw away paper? I want to order the stuff for my first oil change sometime this week, thanks.

 

[Huskynoobee]

I haven't heard of that brand so can't comment, but quite a few Cafe members have had good experience with FLO filters. I've been using them for a couple of years and they work great. They are about the same price as the ones you found. I have 2 so there's a clean one ready to go with each oil change. ZipTy Racing sells the one for your bike which is also used on their race bikes. Here's the link.

http://www.ziptyracing.com/pc-racing-stainless-steel-oil-filter-155/

Don't forget your CH discount.

 

[Up-tite]

PIA to properly clean, ultra sonic only way for sure cleaning, cannot cut apart to inspect for type of debris in your filter.
Later George

 

[shawbagga]

Don't own a 4t anymore but wen I did jus used paper type. Agree with George re cleaning them n inspecting internals. For wat u cn pik up a 10 pack or so of on ebay they're pretty cheap really! I'm sure the SS ones are fine jus MHO.

But again I ride 2ts!

 

[Huskynoobee]

George is right on the cleaning. A cheap Harbor Freight ultrasonic cleaner is the ticket. Plus my wife likes when I clean her jewelery in it too. Inspection for debris is actually very easy. Because the inside is hollow anything larger than the screen material will be trapped inside. I just take a little flashlight and look inside there. This is also a great method to see how clean the filter is. If I can't see light through the mesh, it goes back into the machine for another cycle. True, paper is cheaper, but the flow through the SS is much higher. To each their own, but I'm a fan.

 

[Johnrg]

Been using the Flo for 3 years now (keep a clean spare in the tool box). Just did a oil dump yesterday and looking good. 3600 miles of dirt. 350 mile oil changes. Have magnet on sump plug. Nothing there. Clean the SS outside with blast of most anything with top hole plugged/sealed. Then a blast from inside. It is baffled so yes you can miss a spot in the pleats. Slosh it in solvent, drain, then a bath in Dawn and a rinse, keeping plugged or moving fluid inside to outside, then air blast inside out w/air and leaving aside to dry. Don't have a ultrasonic, so maybe worth checking them out when I am near a Harbor Freight. I keep my spare in a small glass jar in my tool box. On changes the old one goes into the jar which then is the cleaning vessel and you can see what comes off the filter.

In any case, between the paper, which I did always use and the SS, to me a toss up. Shit happens no matter what you do... Paper implosion or ss allowing something by. For reference, I have never experienced an oil related failure on my bikes/cars. Been lucky, but I do believe if you view your oil as you decant it into a recycle jug, with a filter or not you can see any damage/particles or if using SS in the glass jar I keep one in to see what comes off in the solvent wash.

 

[Big Timmy]

That's exactly what I do is clean it in a clear glass jar like "Johnrg" above does, to see if I can indicate any tiny particles coming off the filters after an initial cleaning with brake cleaner.

Oil flow across the S/S filters is increased more so than a paper filter which can degrade. I would say the filter brand you have found has nothing wrong with it whatsoever. They are all about the same, Scotts, PCs "FLO" filters, Tusk racing, Etc. I wouldn't chance to say 1 manufactures reusable S/S filter is any better than the others. Unless you are replacing one of them that is in fact damaged.

I have a pair of PC 155 "FLO" filters for my '15 FE501. Got them from "Amazon" for about the same price as they are listed right now. Which is $23.93 a piece and the shipping was "FREE" if the order was over $49.00 and still is. Its good idea to have a spare. Light compressed air doesn't seem to hurt it when blowing them dry.

I have had the paper filters actually start to collapse in my BMW G450X engine and I swapped over to S/S as soon as I had seen this. Never had an issue running S/S filters in my FE 501 or my other bike either and I have ran them in it about 4 years since switching to the S/S filters.

They will quickly pay for themselves over time. There are multiple sources to get them from as well.

Look I'm not trying to say paper filters are bad but 90% of the time you will just throw it out and install another filter to replace it. You will be throwing money away every time. If I had cash to throw away neglectfully, I might as well just do that. What I mean by saying that is? A reusable S/S filter you have to clean, so whether you can cut it apart or not. It will get you into the habit of inspecting the filter each time its out to see its contents. Simple as that, which is a good thing.

You can't tell me that a large percentage of owners who use paper filters don't just throw the old dirty filter out and install a new one without ever even seeing what's inside the filter. Until such time as they have an engine issue and decide to cut it open.

If they even do that. By then it's too late anyway.

 

[Up-tite]

If I can see light thru a filter it's going to pass dirt. Dirt comes in all sizes.

Filters implode for 3 reasons, badly constructed filter, if plugged, and or if motor is run too hard before oil is properly warmed up causing over-pressure.
Many do not warm their bike properly, it's not only touching the rad and cyl for heat but oil filter cover for warming.
Cold oil creates too high of oil pressure this causes the pressure relief valve to open on the oil filter allowing unfiltered oil to be fed into the motor.

I do know that SS filters are a lot more costly to produce knowing this if I were to get one it wouldn't be the cheaper one or great deal ones.
Later George

 

[JonXX]

You will never ever see any of the metal mesh filters on anything I own for one major reason:

Fiber media filters trap the cool-down condensation (water, more importantly acidic water) emulsified into the oil, metal mesh filters "flo" it on through. Acidic condensation is a mortal enemy to your engine internals.

To the four stroke guys that say "Ah, but I change my oil every 350 miles" I say, you're wasting your money. Use better oil and change your mind, not your oil.

 

[Johnrg]

Geez Jon... I do have one paper filter in the cabinet. I always felt synth was able to go to longer change intervals. Once I landed here and bought the bike with a 1 QT sump, changing it so much seemed a lot but one quart instead of 4 that I'm used to and can have a look and see if anything is in the sump besides oil. As far as water, should it not get heated and vape off. No visible mayonaise like under the oil cap of my VW, doing short trips to the store, so assume it is (and if not one reason changing is not such a bad idea?). Oh well.... More oil discussions ;-)

 

[Huskynoobee]

If I lived in the Pacific North Wet I'd worry about that, but here in the hot dust bowl, it's not very likely.

 

[Big Timmy]

Not much worry about that here in the High desert of AZ either. Oil is cheap. I try to never start my bikes unless I intend to let it get warmed up to operating temperature.

Sink a cellulose based filter of nearly any kind in some good hot water and leave it for a few days and it will likely come out as swollen and soft as paper pulp mush with some glue, treated or not. during use, Acid hydrolysis and other oxidative agents contained in degraded oil can completely dissolve a paper filter element over time.

Water moisture content in a cellulose based paper filters will be absorbed in that media. This will cause swelling of the paper media to some degree. Its typical of most all filter medias to trap a small amount of moisture in the filters media. this can be usually seen upon inspection of the filter itself.

The internal combustion engine, due to its elevated operating temperatures will vaporize any residual moisture out of that oil at a much lower temperature than it will actually reach under normal operating temperatures.

In more arid regions, moisture isn't much of a concern in your engines oil. If you run the bike up to operating temperature it will vaporize out of the system. But just as it exists in the atmosphere, water is everywhere. It is dispersed down to the molecular level also just about everywhere.

Of course in colder climates water in your oil is a fact of life. It takes quite a bit of water to reach the saturation point of the oil where the water is held in suspension and can be seen as a milk shake. The older the oil the higher the level of water that can be dissolved. Which in turn causes more degradation of the oil and its specific proprietary additive package. So the oil should be changed even more often.

 

[JonXX]

If I lived in the Pacific North Wet I'd worry about that, but here in the hot dust bowl, it's not very likely.

Not much worry about that here in the High desert of AZ either.

So...What you guys are saying is that your engines never cool down below the ambient air temperature, which causes condensation to gather on every internal engine component not covered by oil.

 

[Huskynoobee]

No oil sticks to all those components. Are you saying the oil completely drains off of every piece inside the engine thus leaving no oily film whatsoever that then makes all of them susceptible to being exposed to moist air and rusting?

 

[Big Timmy]

Condensation occurs when the engine cools down, yes. I didn't say it didn't.

The quantity of that water condensed on the engines surfaces can actually break the bond of oil on the components of an engine. Not just those components that are "not" covered in oil.

Water condensed on the surfaces can destroy the oil film itself on those same surfaces. However, if the oil system can supply sufficient lubrication immediately to the engines internal surfaces at start up. It can prevent damage more easily.

The water on these surfaces can cause more damage though by causing these surfaces to rust or corrode from contact with that water which now contains sulphuric acid that is a byproduct of the combustion process. This corrosion can lead to scoring of cylinder walls, surface corrosion of pistons and all other parts, etc. This corrosion can be just as bad as galling from direct metal to metal contact.

But in warmer arid climates that amount of moisture is much less than you may have in the mountains up in Washington state.

It could be a problem here at the altitude I am at, or for that matter, anywhere during winter months.

The resultant damage from that condensation would occur during start up of the cold engine though.

Leaving oil in the engine longer in areas where this moisture content is at higher levels in the atmosphere, or when you believe it has moisture in it. Doesn't make too much sense.

Especially since the first thing that happens to the oil from the beginning to its end, is the oil starts to reach a saturation point with condensed water produced from thermal cycling. The sulphuric acid from the combustion process is the worst enemy to the oils degradation.

Furthermore, as I said before. Acid hydrolysis can attack and eventually dissolve paper filters when this acid is added to water but worse yet, Sulphuric acid firstly destroys the manufactures additive package in the oil. Which leads to even more damage.

I will change my oil often and stick with the S/S filter.

By the way. I bought my FE501 from "Bills". I take good care of it. He shipped it all the way down to SE AZ to the USBP Station where I work.

We have Govt. contracts for oils and lubricants with "High Performance Lubricants". This same chemist used to work for "Royal Purple". He knows his business and started his own company about 3 or 4 years ago, and has the huge contract with DHS now. I pick his brain every time I get a chance. He is very open with his vast knowledge of lubricants and is very good at providing solutions or designing products that hold up to the very worst conditions imaginable. He puts it all in writing but understanding it, is more than most people can handle.

 

[JonnyZip]

PC Flo vs. Scotts Filter
For what's it's worth, having owned both the PC and the Scotts filter there is a significant difference in quality between the two. The Scotts is USA made and the PC is clearly a cheap offshore knockoff; you can easily twist the ends of the PC and the folds in the filter media don't look as precise. The Scotts is much more solid leading me to believe it's the stronger of the two. Plus the 'mericuh factor...

You get what you pay for. Your mileage vary. Yadda yadda yadda.

 

[duggoey]

I remember Tinken explained the difference in engineering terms paper vs mesh in the particulate micron size removed. Because the mesh is more or less the same size hole all around any size particle smaller than the mesh gets through. Where's the paper filters have a 'range' of hole/pore sizes and can potentially filter smaller particles, maybe on the second/third/50th pass.
My opinion was to stick with the paper throw aways. Only condition is in your Northern and mountain cold weather where you do get the bypass opening when it's cold, which is bad for the motor.

 

[Throttle on]

http://www.motosport.com/filguard-stainless-steel-oil-filter#reviews

If that's not a good brand can someone link me to something else. Also, any cons to using a reusable filter over the standard throw away paper? I want to order the stuff for my first oil change sometime this week, thanks.

Another option is to upgrade to a higher performance disposable filter. I recommend two brands one is high flow. The other is K&N. The advantage is increased surface area with more pleats in the filter. if you Buy these filters online they generally only cost about five dollars a piece. I order mine five at a time. Rocky Mountain ATV is one source there are others. you bought a $12,000 dirtbike change the oil And the filter regularly! If you want to buy 23 Dollar A quart oil and screw around with cleaning your fancy stainless aftermarket filter do so! I buy Mobil One 15/50 in 5 quart jugs at Walmart for about 27 bucks. I change my oil about every 600 miles. I have been doing this for over 20 years. It has never hurt any of my race bikes. Motorcycle wet clutches love mobile one synthetic oil

 

[Up-tite]

HI FLO makes the K&N just different dye on the paper.
Later George

 

[Big Timmy]

I happen to like my "fancy Stainless aftermarket filters" and I'm not "screwing around" cleaning them as you say. It takes an IQ of about 7 to do this and unless you are afraid to see what may come out of that filter or wearing rubber gloves all the time its not messy at all. It gives me piece of mind every time I do it. Which is quite often.

To me, that's one of the primary benefits of using the fancy $23.00 PC-Flo Stainless steel filters in the first place. Quality over most all cheap paper filters being the number one thing. Inspection ability of the filter is the next benefit.

I Use Mobil 1 Synthetic as well from jugs at Walmart but I change my oil probably closer to every 200 hard ridden miles if that. It doesn't hurt to do so since I ride rocky single track and I also run a Rekluse Clutch that gets abused pretty well. As its constantly modulating the transmissions output.

Plus I don't have to screw around making purchases having to stock up on cheap paper filters either.

For another example of this same fancy theory of mine.

I have literally dumped gallons and gallons of synthetic oil into the 13 quart hand made oil pans after just a half dozen or so 8 second, 165 mph, 1/4 mile passes in my drag race cars over the past 20 years. I have always relied on exceptional quality that gave me piece of mind using fancy S/S oil filters. I paid the price up front to protect my investment and only used "System 1" remote mounted "fancy stainless steel" oil filter systems in my expensive 1000HP 572" naturally aspirated, Aluminum Chrysler Hemi engines for over 20 years.

Relying on a standard "Fram PH8A" 5 dollar paper oil filter just wouldn't cut it when the engine cost about $35,000 dollars. Again being able to easily see what may embedded in that filter rather than tossing it out and not knowing what was in it as it flys into the garbage can, actually paid for itself many, many times over.

Giving me more time to buy other fancy things like dirt bikes so I could spend more time screwing around.