Information on the '08 Husky "race kit"

[Louge]

They are handy... but every one I've ever worked with in the past was off a bit, or a lot compared to a full blown, dyno system, O2 sensor/software package.

The best ones (and I've not worked with the current premium ones, so this is only what I've researched) all seem to have a 4 or 6 wire wide band, heated O2 sensor... and would be more accurate than the basic economy Lambda 1 and 2 wire kits.

Like all things electronic, I'm sure they've improved dramatically since I've had an opportunity to use one.

C

I've had good luck with the Innovate LM-1.
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2419381&postcount=23

 

[seymore]

What an exciting thread!

I have been doing some work on the 08 TE450 FI system since 3/08. I have added a second O2 sensor port in the header pipe so I can run my LM-1 wide-band data logger. I haven't had enough time in the last few months to collect much data during "real trail riding".

With the stock O2 sensor installed the bike runs pretty close to 14.7 AFR and gets 48-50 mpg during mellow riding. This is the center value of the stock narrow-band sensor. With race plug installed and FB1 at 100%, the AFR is 12-13. This is too rich and is reflected in poor 26 MPG and the buildup of soot in the exhaust system and spark arrestor screen. This should be able to be adjusted by adjusting the FB1 % which is a pain since it can only be done with the O2 sensor re-installed.

I have parts on order to experiment with programmable O2 sensor that could be set to AFR 13.5 for power mode and 14.2 for economy cruising.

I also have a prototype of a battery eliminator or backup system. This was primarily drive by the fact if you battery fails on a ride, your screwed!

As far as getting a better understanding how the Mikuni ECU works short of getting Mikuni training would be to build a engine simulator. This will allow the sensor input to feed with stable and known signals to evaluate to relation to injector timing. When you try to look at signals on a real engine, there is a lot of fluctuations. A highspeed-multi channel data logger system would help, but you would have a heap of data to sort. Controlled stimulation would likely be easier.

The Power Commander solution installs between the injector and ECU. It also has a input that reads TPS. The PC measures- injector dwell time, inject frequency (RPM) and throttle position (TPS). The PC uses the RPM & TPS to select the fuel adjustment % in the map table. Map % is used to either extends or shortens the injector dwell time. One thing the Dynojet people weren't aware of earlier, was how the FB1 % would affect their maps and if FB1 should be set to 100%.

It will be interesting to see how well my closed loop system will work with a programmable O2 sensor?


PS: I think I may have a alternate solution to iBeat soon.

 

[Ruffus]

Here's 3 diagnostic meters, there are many more permanent gauges that are available
http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopcart/MISC/POR_MISC_INNOVT_pg1.htm

http://www.gmcopo.com/Tools-NGK AFX air-fuel ratio monitor.htm

http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/products/air-fuel/index.asp


Damn I'm slipping, the second two are the same

 

[Creeper]

What an exciting thread!

It will be interesting to see how well my closed loop system will work with a programmable O2 sensor?

PS: I think I may have a alternate solution to iBeat soon.

Absolutely brilliant what you're doing Seymore.

I can already tell that you're going to be a excellent future source information for FI Husky owners. The ability to dial in your AF to suit your needs will be something I'm sure many will be interested in.

Keep us posted. Perhaps this is a good time to suggest a "FI info forum" just for threads like this, and for threads I'm sure you'll be starting in the future.

Take care,
C

 

[jlk_250]

I have been doing some work on the 08 TE450 FI system since 3/08. <snip>

This should be able to be adjusted by adjusting the FB1 % which is a pain since it can only be done with the O2 sensor re-installed.

I have parts on order to experiment with programmable O2 sensor that could be set to AFR 13.5 for power mode and 14.2 for economy cruising.

<snip>

PS: I think I may have a alternate solution to iBeat soon.

This is cool stuff! You're doing the things I wish I had time, money, and expertise to do. And more!

Could you comment on why the FB1% value can only be done with the O2 sensor installed?

Is your programmable O2 sensor going to be a wide-band sensor with your own signal conditioning electronics to mimic a narrow-band sensor output like the stock one?

I've thought that the iBeat SW might be reverse-engineerable. Have you found a source for the connector? Monitored the serial IO?

In other questions, have you figured out what is in the Power-Up kit O2 delete plug? I at first figured it would be a shorting plug but it is not. Seems to have either resistors or diodes in it but I did not take mine apart to find out. I'm curious how the ECU "knows" the O2 sensor has been removed and whether it really does switch to a different map.

Finally, on a different note, I wrote Tuneboy to see if they are working on a solution for the Husky FI. They are not. Pity.

My PCIII is due in a couple of days. I'd like to start with a good map for an '08 SM510R with power-up kit installed so if someone interested enough to read this thread would be kind enough to e-mail me their map, I'd appreciate it. jlk_250 at hotmail I also plan to try the Dynojet map.

Jon

 

[Coffee]

...Perhaps this is a good time to suggest a "FI info forum" just for threads like this, and for threads I'm sure you'll be starting in the future.

Take care,
C

These things will happen in good time, a few weeks, as opposed to a few years.

Can someone give me a clue what these PC maps look like? binaries? text files?

 

[lairpost]

The maps are binary files and quite small, only 5KB, I've attached the three available (including base map) from Dynojet for the 08 TE250.

 

[seymore]

Could you comment on why the FB1% value can only be done with the O2 sensor installed?
It's just the way iBeat/ECU is programmed to work. Not sure if this characteristic is in iBeat or the ECU. Will need to test sending the change FB command to the ECU without O2 sensor.

Is your programmable O2 sensor going to be a wide-band sensor with your own signal conditioning electronics to mimic a narrow-band sensor output like the stock one?
It's a wide-band with 2 programmable outputs that can be set to emulate narrow-band sensors outputs.

I've thought that the iBeat SW might be reverse-engineerable. Have you found a source for the connector? Monitored the serial IO?
The hard part is figuring out whats inside the epoxied black box that part of the cable. I have a working prototype circuit. Still working on the connector, its from Japan. I need to write some software to emulate iBeat. Haven't completely decided if PC (computer) application or a stand-alone device would be the best choice.

In other questions, have you figured out what is in the Power-Up kit O2 delete plug? I at first figured it would be a shorting plug but it is not. Seems to have either resistors or diodes in it but I did not take mine apart to find out. I'm curious how the ECU "knows" the O2 sensor has been removed and whether it really does switch to a different map.
The race connector put a small load across the O2 heater circuit. Most ECU's monitor heater current to detect O2 sensor failure. I assume that this condition causes the ECU to run open-loop without setting the "O2 sensor failure" fault code. The ECU normally runs open-loop before the O2 sensor heats up.

 

[Husky_Ant]

I'd be interested to know if any of your bikes over there in the US have been recalled to have the latest Husky map installed. Mine was done when it went in for repairs in the UK and I know of two other dealers that have had bikes in to reprogram. Apparently there are two ECU's in circulation. The later one has BMW in the serial.

 

[Geetz]

The race connector put a small load across the O2 heater circuit. Most ECU's monitor heater current to detect O2 sensor failure. I assume that this condition causes the ECU to run open-loop without setting the "O2 sensor failure" fault code. The ECU normally runs open-loop before the O2 sensor heats up.

Would you do me a favor and measure that load?

Here's what I want to do: Mostly I want to run with the sensor on, getting good road mileage. But I'd like to flip a switch and run open-loop on demand while keeping the 02 sensor heater powered so as to avoid damage.

Hopefully the heater is designed to run straight off the regulator voltage. Gotta measure that, unless you know.

 

[Fast1]

I'd be interested to know if any of your bikes over there in the US have been recalled to have the latest Husky map installed. Mine was done when it went in for repairs in the UK and I know of two other dealers that have had bikes in to reprogram. Apparently there are two ECU's in circulation. The later one has BMW in the serial.

What vintage and bike do you own? When (date) did the dealer install a different fuel map?

 

[seymore]

Would you do me a favor and measure that load?
It's 2.18K ohms 1/4 watt resistor.

Here's what I want to do: Mostly I want to run with the sensor on, getting good road mileage. But I'd like to flip a switch and run open-loop on demand while keeping the 02 sensor heater powered so as to avoid damage.
I was looking at building a kit to do just what you suggested. But decided to pursue switching between two programmable AFR signals,

Hopefully the heater is designed to run straight off the regulator voltage. Gotta measure that, unless you know.
When I was first looking at O2 signals on a oscilloscope, I saw the heater voltage be pulse. This maybe some type of temp control. I haven't investigated further.

 

[Geetz]

Originally Posted by Geetz View Post
Would you do me a favor and measure that load?
It's 2.18K ohms 1/4 watt resistor.

Here's what I want to do: Mostly I want to run with the sensor on, getting good road mileage. But I'd like to flip a switch and run open-loop on demand while keeping the 02 sensor heater powered so as to avoid damage.
I was looking at building a kit to do just what you suggested. But decided to pursue switching between two programmable AFR signals,

Hopefully the heater is designed to run straight off the regulator voltage. Gotta measure that, unless you know.
When I was first looking at O2 signals on a oscilloscope, I saw the heater voltage be pulse. This maybe some type of temp control. I haven't investigated further.

Thank you, sir! I'm glad you mentioned that the heater is pulse modulated. My meter would have told me that, if I thought to ask, which I probably wouldn't have. No problem! I can pretty easily put together a pulse circuit to match what it's doing. And I got a 2.2K resistor sittin' right here, so I can at least give it a try without the heater bit. I gather that not having the heater on doesn't ruin them instantly by any means.

Now I just have to remove the cat from the stock can....

If this works, I'll post here. Maybe put together a kit if anyone is interested.

Thanks again!

 

[seymore]

Not sure if the ECU would like or recognize the switching between race & O2 sensor while running or ignition on. It may only detect the configuration during power up.

I also don't know if it would work with leaving the O2 sensor signal connected and only switching the heater circuit. If you can leave the signal connected, then you would only need a DPDT switch to switch the heater between the ECU and the alternate power source. You can leave the 2.2k resistor connected to the ECU since it load is insignificant to the heater.

 

[Geetz]

Not sure if the ECU would like or recognize the switching between race & O2 sensor while running or ignition on. It may only detect the configuration during power up.

I also don't know if it would work with leaving the O2 sensor signal connected and only switching the heater circuit. If you can leave the signal connected, then you would only need a DPDT switch to switch the heater between the ECU and the alternate power source. You can leave the 2.2k resistor connected to the ECU since it load is insignificant to the heater.

Good point. We'll see if it notices, but I bet it monitors continually to check for heater failure. Otherwise, no big deal to stop the bike and switch.

Another good point, but I didn't plan to leave the signal connected. I assume the race plug doesn't do anything special here? Just an open circuit?

Any idea what the 02 sensor's connector is called? Or any idea how to run it down otherwise? Hopefully it's a standard automotive thing and the parts store will have it or can get it.

Edit: I finally actually looked at the wiring. I need to pull the tank to see for sure, but it looks like it's all wired directly into one monstrous plug. Does the race plug fit there? Or is there somewhere more convenient downstream?

 

[bass_on_tap]

The power up kit does indeed void the warranty on any part that was damaged from the use of the power up kit. If your dashboard goes bad, or a rivnut in your subframe comes loose, that should be covered. I have seen a lot of people buy performance parts that are offered by the OEM and go home and install them wrong, damaging the bike. I can not file a warranty claim because your played with the injection and blew up your engine. If the dealer installs the kit, and the bike is running perfect, it probably won't break anyways. If it does, most good dealers and manufactures deal with this sort of thing on a case by case basis. It is after all an off road racing motorcycle once it has the kit installed.

There is a power up kit for a 610, I have one on mine. I even have one in stock at my shop. I had to go through a lot of trouble to get them, but I have the part numbers now. It made quite a difference.
I also have the ECU code plugs to activate the open loop mapping so your can tune any of the TE's to any pipe you want.

The I-Beat software seems to vary the injector dwell time through out 3 ranges of throttle position by about 15% in any of the ranges. This should be enough to compensate for any after market pipe. I think a power commander may be redundant.

closed loop injection systems have a problem on light, high performance singles and twins. The O2 sensor will cause a surging effect that you will feel at steady throttle with low engine load. Ask any F650 owner, or 1098 owner. Eliminating the sensor and setting up the injection properly will make the bike a lot easier to ride in technical situations.

Last, in my experience, the power up kit make the TE 450's and 510's run considerable cooler exhaust tempertures.

David

PM ya'. Thanks Dave

 

[jlk_250]

I've got a new question regarding the Power Commander. Not sure where to ask but since this thread has evolved into a technical FI discussion I thought I would try here.

How does one change the RPM range over which the unit operates? For example, what if one wants the range to go from 0-10,000RPM instead of 0-7,500 RPM?

Jon

 

[PacificPT]

FI

Good information, will be interesting to see what the folks who really understand FI come up with and post here.

I rode a 510 with the stock and with the power up kit. You could tell the difference quite easily. A couple of glitches on the 510 kit have to do with the cheesy spark arrestor and the heat coming off the header right by your knee.

 

[bendbiker]

This forum tread is amazing that it is staying on topic and not being side track by 'who makes a better bike or personality differences.' Excellent tread. I wonder if we could start a money collection to help the key guys continue with their R&D, really! Many of us will benefit from this/these solutions and even encourage others to buy into the Husky brand.

I just purchased an 08 TE450 with 40 hrs and with the Husky Power Up Kit. The EFI is not correct as the bike studders at 7,000rpm and up under steady throttle. However, while accelerating thru 7,000 and higher, it is fine and pulls hard!!??? Also, after cursing down the road for 5 miles at 4,500rpm (45mph) and then coming to a stop sign the bike wanted to die 3 times with exactly the symptoms of 'running out of gas' but still a gallon in the tank. Anyone else experience this?

 

[Coffee]

...Anyone else experience this?

Yes other people have reported similar symptoms.

Wish I had the time to type more, hope someone else does.